New Asylum Faction

Suggest new roles or changes to current roles for the game here.

New Asylum Faction

Postby lilhomiegaythug » Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:34 am

**I posted a new faction idea on the ToS Reddit and got a TON of positive feedback. They told me to post it here and to try to get a developer's attention**

The Coven expansion was really fun and dynamic. It solved the problems from classic mafia mode that made the game feel stagnant: new ways to counter TPs to disturb the jailor meta as well as high chances to stone people every game, so claiming a role isn't always a dead end once you get CCed.



One weakness with coven is how complicated it was to balance all of the exciting evil roles. Waiting 3 days to get the necronomicon and then having a different buff for each role as well as a random order it gets passed on (with the medusa who gets the most powerful buff at the end) is complicated. It works, but it's a price to pay for the cool powers we get to use with the coven.



And one thing that made coven fit well was that it centered around the Witch NE role. That is why I propose that the next faction update should revolve around the Jester.



- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -



Asylum keeper - Every full moon, the Asylum keeper can change their target into a Jester (NE). This is blocked by basic defense. The asylum keeper has basic defense and seems innocent to Sheriffs.


Nurse - alternates between poisoning and healing. Has one self heal



Random Asylum Roles:



Record Keeper - Finds their target's role



Bureaucrat - Role blocks their target



Psychotherapist - Confuses their target, giving them framed investigation results as well as changing their votes for the next day to the opposite. (framing alone is too weak, am I right?)



Hypnotist - Same as mafia expansion, hypnotist changes people's results. This will be really good for making people think they were poisoned, confusing doctors.



Mortician - Can read dead chat but cannot speak to the dead. Has 3 "preparations." This person will appear as their corresponding Asylum role if they die that night or are hung that next day.
Example: Escort > Bureaucrat / Doctor > Nurse / Bodyguard > Asylum Keeper / Jester > Psychotherapist



When the Asylum Keeper dies, a random Asylum member inherits his role, the Nurse inheriting it last. Random Asylum roles are unique like coven roles.

*Perhaps converted Jesters should not be able to choose a victim. Maybe it should always be a Town or neutral, prioritizing those who voted guilty. If the Asylum is too powerful, then this would be an easy thing to switch to balance it out.



- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -



New Invest Results:

Psychotherapist, Jester, Vampire, *Veteran

Bureaucrat, Escort, Transporter

Spy, Jailor, *Hypnotist

Doctor, SK, Nurse

Investigator, Record Keeper, Mayor, Tracker

Medium, Retributionist, Mortician

Bodyguard, Asylum Keeper, Arsonist, Crusader

Lookout, Witch, *Trapper

Sheriff, Exe, WW, *Vigilante


*Moved Vigi so Exe could pretend to be Vigi and claim to have shot AK or Witch. They would also be immune to being shot by the real Vigi they CCed.

*Trapper moved with LO and Witch because trapper sees visits kind of like LO

*Hypnotist moved to even out the Spy Jailor slot. Spy is an easy claim for evils since they see visits too.

*Veteran moved to be with the framed results because Veterans can be kind of trolly when baiting. It could go anywhere. It just seemed wrong to have Vigi and Vet alone with no Asylum evil.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -



Build:

Jailor

Vigilante

Town Investigative

Town Investigative

Town Protective

Town Support

Random Town

Random Town

Random Town

Asylum Keeper

Nurse

Random Asylum

Random Asylum

Witch

Executioner



Vigi is vital for dealing with jesters but is countered by the Nurse's healing. Veteran isn't that useful since Jesters can't visit, but we will still see Veterans pop up as random town still.



- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -



This faction directly addresses the main flaw of classic and coven: dying makes it boring. Without a direct killing role or NK, people will have more time to play each game. Nobody will die N1 and have to rejoin queue (unless witch gets lucky)! If you are poisoned, you will have one more day to put everything on the line in a dramatic climax! And if you are converted to a jester, instead of dying instantly and praying for a retri, you have to get really creative.



Strengths:



- Less random dying more drama and chaos



- Witch every game to counter TPs like trapper and crusader



- Nobody has to be NK just to balance the game for the other evils



- Punishes towns who do not vote wisely or abstain from voting



- Strong evil roles without a complicated balance



- Changing people to jesters cleans their roles, allowing evils to claim better



- Deeper town meta



- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -



New meta for town:



Town members now have a reason not to completely confirm themselves. If you are completely confirmed as jailor but get turned into a jester, your chances of winning are close to none. While the Asylum faction is much less deadly than the Coven and slightly less deadly than the Mafia, the chaos they bring weakens the town to its core.



Not only will more evils be able to pretend to be jester, but innoing your evil teammates won't be a dead giveaway since you could always say you thought they were a jester. And with more jesters, the town will be less likely to convict people overall.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -



This game mode will push your sanity to the edge. Welcome to The Asylum.
Last edited by lilhomiegaythug on Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: New Asylum Faction

Postby JacksonVirgo » Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:02 am

My opinion in this colour

lilhomiegaythug wrote:Asylum keeper - Every full moon, the Asylum keeper can change their target into a Jester (NE). This is blocked by basic defense. The asylum keeper has basic defense and seems innocent to Sheriffs.
So you just convert people to Jesters? Am I misunderstanding it? Could be interesting

Nurse - alternates between poisoning and healing. Has one self heal
Asylum version of the Potion Master without the invest, yep

Random Asylum Roles:
Record Keeper - Finds their target's role
Okay, Asylum version of Consigliere sounds good.

Bureaucrat - Role blocks their target
Asylum escort/consort would make Escort claims much more suspicious. I like it

Psychotherapist - Confuses their target, giving them framed investigation results as well as changing their votes for the next day to the opposite. (framing alone is too weak, am I right?)
This is actually a really fun idea, it doesn't manipulate votes if someone knows they got framed by this they can still vote normally.

Hypnotist - Same as mafia expansion, hypnotist changes people's results. This will be really good for making people think they were poisoned, confusing doctors.
Maybe change the name lol, but yeah could work.

Mortician - Can read dead chat but cannot speak to the dead. Has 3 "preparations." This person will appear as their corresponding Asylum role if they die that night or are hung that next day.
Example: Escort > Bureaucrat / Doctor > Nurse / Bodyguard > Asylum Keeper / Jester > Psychotherapist
So it's like a special version of a Janitor? With half-medium abilities? I don't personally see the uses for this but feel free to let me know.

When the Asylum Keeper dies, a random Asylum member inherits his role, the Nurse inheriting it last. Random Asylum roles are unique like coven roles.
Makes sense


*edit*

*The Asylum wins by being the last faction standing. Okie
*Jesters win the same way as always and are NOT Asylum. Yep, assumed that much but good to have clarification just in case.
*Perhaps converted Jesters should not be able to choose a victim. Maybe it should always be a Town or neutral, prioritizing those who voted guilty. Is this so the Jesters don't kill Asylum members?
*Or maybe jesters can choose a victim but cannot talk to dead town or medium. They can only talk to dead asylum and other jesters. This might be less toxic for people who get mad at jesters too. Nah, all dead should be able to talk to the medium.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
New Invest Results:
Psychotherapist, Jester, Vampire
Bureaucrat, Escort, Transporter
Spy, Jailor, Hypnotist
Doctor, SK, Nurse, Vigilante
Investigator, Record Keeper, Mayor, Tracker
Medium, Retributionist, Mortician
Bodyguard, Asylum Keeper, Arsonist, Crusader
Lookout, Witch, *Trapper
Sheriff, Exe, WW, Veteran

So you're saying that Mafia/Coven aren't ever in the same game as the Asylum? Also do Spies see Asylum visits? If not Spies are practically useless
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Build:
Jailor
Vigilante
Town Investigative
Town Investigative
Town Protective
Town Support
Random Town
Random Town
Random Town
Asylum Keeper
Nurse
Random Asylum
Random Asylum
Witch
Executioner

I personally don't like Jailor being a confirmed town role unless it is necessary in a rolelist which it isn't. Maybe add a TK slot instead so there's a chance there will be one but not certain.

Vigi is vital for dealing with jesters but is countered by the Nurse's healing. Veteran isn't that useful since Jesters can't visit, but we will still see Veterans pop up as random town still.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


This faction directly addresses the main flaw of classic and coven: dying makes it boring. Without a direct killing role or NK, people will have more time to play each game. Nobody will die N1 and have to rejoin queue (unless witch gets lucky)! If you are poisoned, you will have one more day to put everything on the line in a dramatic climax! And if you are converted to a jester, instead of dying instantly and praying for a retri, you have to get really creative.

Strengths:
- Less random dying more drama and chaos.
- Witch every game to counter TPs like trapper and crusader
- Nobody has to be NK just to balance the game for the other evils
- Punishes towns who do not vote wisely or abstain from voting
- Strong evil roles without a complicated balance
- Changing people to jesters cleans their roles, allowing evils to claim better
- Deeper town meta.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

New meta for town:
Town members now have a reason not to completely confirm themselves. If you are completely confirmed as jailor but get turned into a jester, your chances of winning are close to none. While the Asylum faction is much less deadly than the Coven and slightly less deadly than the Mafia, the chaos they bring weakens the town to its core.

Not only will more evils be able to pretend to be jester, but innoing your evil teammates won't be a dead giveaway since you could always say you thought they were a jester. And with more jesters, the town will be less likely to convict people overall.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
This game mode will push your sanity to the edge. Welcome to The Asylum.


I mean, I like it. Though stuff still needs a bit of work like most roles/ideas. It'd be fun to play as, not sure about balance though lol
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Re: New Asylum Faction

Postby lilhomiegaythug » Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:44 am

JacksonVirgo wrote:My opinion in this colour
...
I mean, I like it. Though stuff still needs a bit of work like most roles/ideas. It'd be fun to play as, not sure about balance though lol


Thank you for the feedback! Sorry the *edit* part was in response to a few reddit people who got really confused and thought that converted jesters win with Asylum faction for some reason. I'll clean that up for this post.

Yes the Asylum Keeper just converts people into Jesters. I think there will be a high strategy ceiling for this. And the main difference between Nurse and PM is that Nurse poisons, giving people one last chance after they get their death sentence. But still, Asylum is getting one kill every night, and converting to jester is basically like a kill + stoning since they lose their role. On top of that, Asylum is rewarded for picking and propping up Jesters who will actually get lynched. They get an indirect kill from the Jester's haunt, giving them up to 1.5 kills per night. I wanted to make a faction whose strength depended a LOT on skill.

You are correct with the Psychotherapist. It would be incriminating if someone voted guilty on accident, and it would give Jesters and evils cover to vote strangely. But if the confused person knew ahead of time (or on the 2nd vote of the day), they could vote opposite to negate it. This also makes the Psychotherapist potentially powerful late game in swinging a close vote. Imagine if Asylum was one vote away from majority and you weren't sure if you were confused again last night haha.

The Mortician would basically create confusion in a similar way as disguiser. If the Mortician successfully prepares an investigator and then gets them killed, they will die as a Record Keeper, looking like they kept a fake investigator will. This will give the town the illusion that they are 1 person closer to victory and allow the real Record Keeper perhaps to assume that TI slot. The ability to read dead chat would throttle Mediums' ability to confirm people. If 2 mediums try to confirm each other, the Asylum could target one of them that night or create confusion the next day. There are a lot of ways this could end up being useful.


Spy would definitely see Asylum visits! And I only left mafia/coven out of invest results for clarity. No reason why they can't play together.
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Re: New Asylum Faction

Postby JacksonVirgo » Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:56 am

One thing however, there could be a meta Town does. Vote someone up and EVERYONE inno it. Anyone who would be 'confused' by the Psychotherapist would vote guilty and they would know.
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Re: New Asylum Faction

Postby Transcender » Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:18 am

is
is this a repost
I think this is a repost without as good formatting and you just found it on reddit
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Re: New Asylum Faction

Postby JacksonVirgo » Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:22 am

Google wrote:is
is this a repost
I think this is a repost without as good formatting and you just found it on reddit

So you're saying they just stole the idea off reddit and the following quote is a lie?

**I posted a new faction idea on the ToS Reddit and got a TON of positive feedback. They told me to post it here and to try to get a developer's attention**
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Re: New Asylum Faction

Postby JacksonVirgo » Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:27 am

https://imgur.com/a/3sjBuhv

It's theirs

EDIT: Pasted the wrong link lmao. Fixed it hopefully
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Re: New Asylum Faction

Postby lilhomiegaythug » Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:00 pm

JacksonVirgo wrote:One thing however, there could be a meta Town does. Vote someone up and EVERYONE inno it. Anyone who would be 'confused' by the Psychotherapist would vote guilty and they would know.


Maybe you're not understanding how this works because that seems silly, easy to fake, and a waste of a vote (which would be good for evils).

If you are confused by the Psychotherapist, you give Investigators and Sheriffs framed results that night. During the day, when you click innocent on the Jailor everybody just VFRed on accident, the chat says "You have voted." And not until the voting period ends does it tell everyone that you were the only GUILTY vote. Now, the next time somebody gets put up to vote that day, you can just vote INNOCENT to have it counted as a guilty vote, but the confusion has already been set in place. It makes you look like a Jester who is guiltying Jailor.

This is a very obvious example, but as people catch on to what the role does and how to use it, it will become more chaotic. It will also be SUPER powerful late game because people will have to guess if they were confused or not because their one vote might swing the whole thing.
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Re: New Asylum Faction

Postby JacksonVirgo » Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:51 pm

I know how the Psychotherapist works, I am just saying a meta can be formed around it.
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Re: New Asylum Faction

Postby Brilliand » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:10 pm

lilhomiegaythug wrote:
JacksonVirgo wrote:One thing however, there could be a meta Town does. Vote someone up and EVERYONE inno it. Anyone who would be 'confused' by the Psychotherapist would vote guilty and they would know.


Maybe you're not understanding how this works because that seems silly, easy to fake, and a waste of a vote (which would be good for evils).


So long as there's more than one vote used in a day, the confusion will only be effective for the first vote. After the first vote, every player individually knows whether they were confused, and can correct their votes accordingly. It doesn't matter whether anyone else believes them, it only matters that they personally know.

The "meta" JacksonVirgo describes is a meta of always wasting the first vote, just to make sure that you also waste the Psychotherapist's ability. This may or may not be worth it.
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Re: New Asylum Faction

Postby JacksonVirgo » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:18 pm

The first few nights, the psychotherapists ability will be useless outside of confirming there is one in game outside of the framed results. The role would be better in a kind of 3v2 scenario against the Asylum where you could have your teammate pushed up, and then inno it as someone would guilty (and be confused and then inno). Though they would just push them back up again and lynch them. Or you could use it as a way to get a pushed up town to be guiltied and win, it's situational at best as it is.

The whole three total votes per day kind of destroys this role outside of just being a framer, maybe change it to work around that?
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Re: New Asylum Faction

Postby lilhomiegaythug » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:35 pm

Brilliand wrote:
lilhomiegaythug wrote:
JacksonVirgo wrote:One thing however, there could be a meta Town does. Vote someone up and EVERYONE inno it. Anyone who would be 'confused' by the Psychotherapist would vote guilty and they would know.


Maybe you're not understanding how this works because that seems silly, easy to fake, and a waste of a vote (which would be good for evils).


So long as there's more than one vote used in a day, the confusion will only be effective for the first vote. After the first vote, every player individually knows whether they were confused, and can correct their votes accordingly. It doesn't matter whether anyone else believes them, it only matters that they personally know.

The "meta" JacksonVirgo describes is a meta of always wasting the first vote, just to make sure that you also waste the Psychotherapist's ability. This may or may not be worth it.



ohh thank you for explaining it to me. I think that limiting the town to 2 votes in a day would be great for evils! and then getting a frame on top of it. Also it might end up working like BMer to counter the meta. People don't usually BM early game, so they can read whispers and not tip off spies. Confusion might work the same way, so they can catch people off guard late game.
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Re: New Asylum Faction

Postby lilhomiegaythug » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:37 pm

JacksonVirgo wrote:The first few nights, the psychotherapists ability will be useless outside of confirming there is one in game outside of the framed results. The role would be better in a kind of 3v2 scenario against the Asylum where you could have your teammate pushed up, and then inno it as someone would guilty (and be confused and then inno). Though they would just push them back up again and lynch them. Or you could use it as a way to get a pushed up town to be guiltied and win, it's situational at best as it is.

The whole three total votes per day kind of destroys this role outside of just being a framer, maybe change it to work around that?



people vote wrong all the time and it gives their alignment away. This will be a chance to add to that or to cover for those evils. It will create at least a chance that you are wrong to push people based on their votes. I think that builds on the lynching and TK focus of this game.

being able to trick vigi or jailor to kill someone for voting differently would be great.
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Re: New Asylum Faction

Postby JacksonVirgo » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:46 pm

This would make Spy a priority target then, I am all for that.
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Re: New Asylum Faction

Postby lilhomiegaythug » Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:20 am

azurillia wrote:nurse is nerfed potion master


how is being able to heal AND attack MORE a "nerf" ?

Also, how is being able to change someone's vote more creative than being able to convert people into jesters? LMAO Are you having difficulty imagining how fun and chaotic that will be?

Other than the fact there is a RBing role and an investigative role, this is nothing like mafia. You aren't "killing" people every night as much as you are stirring confusion. It's so different haha, but I guess haters gonna hate.
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Re: New Asylum Faction

Postby lilhomiegaythug » Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:26 am

JacksonVirgo wrote:The first few nights, the psychotherapists ability will be useless outside of confirming there is one in game outside of the framed results. The role would be better in a kind of 3v2 scenario against the Asylum where you could have your teammate pushed up, and then inno it as someone would guilty (and be confused and then inno). Though they would just push them back up again and lynch them. Or you could use it as a way to get a pushed up town to be guiltied and win, it's situational at best as it is.

The whole three total votes per day kind of destroys this role outside of just being a framer, maybe change it to work around that?


I see what you're saying. Maybe a role could block a person from voting the same way BMer blocks from talking. It would give away that the person is sided with town, but it can be faked easily. It would leave at least one town abstainer for Jesters to haunt while hurting the town's ability to vote well.
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Re: New Asylum Faction

Postby Brilliand » Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:49 am

lilhomiegaythug wrote:how is being able to heal AND attack MORE a "nerf" ?


Probably because the attacks are poisonings, which are much weaker than regular attacks.
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Re: New Asylum Faction

Postby JacksonVirgo » Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:17 am

lilhomiegaythug wrote:It's so different haha, but I guess haters gonna hate.


Just because it's different doesn't mean that it's balanced.
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Re: New Asylum Faction

Postby JacksonVirgo » Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:16 am

azurillia wrote:YOU CAN'T CHANGE OTHER ROLES' GOAL WITH ABILITIES. IT IS A RULE. Only exception to this is Vampires, which is in Neutral Chaos and they won't print a role like that again (it does not appear in ranked anyway). Exe and GA is also excluded.

You mean conversions? And yeah, conversion roles are usually frowned upon and it is in the 'concepts not to make' section but there isn't any set rules against it per se. Just in general, conversion roles are usually bad unless there's a really solid reason why there should/could be one. In addition, Executioner's and Guardian Angel's aren't conversion roles, they convert to Jesters/Survivors because of the chance that their targets die N1 and they instantly lose. Just makes it fair to play as.

azurillia wrote:Lol noone cares what you printed or created in this game cuz they don't worth anything so facts :(

What?
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Re: New Asylum Faction

Postby lilhomiegaythug » Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:19 pm

Brilliand wrote:
lilhomiegaythug wrote:how is being able to heal AND attack MORE a "nerf" ?


Probably because the attacks are poisonings, which are much weaker than regular attacks.



don't forget that jesters can claim poisoned, and the hypnotist role can make ppl think they are poisoned. this is a new type of gameplay.
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Re: New Asylum Faction

Postby Brilliand » Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:38 pm

lilhomiegaythug wrote:
Brilliand wrote:
lilhomiegaythug wrote:how is being able to heal AND attack MORE a "nerf" ?


Probably because the attacks are poisonings, which are much weaker than regular attacks.



don't forget that jesters can claim poisoned, and the hypnotist role can make ppl think they are poisoned. this is a new type of gameplay.


The Poisoner already exists ingame, and we don't see jesters and hypnotists causing much confusion around it. So I maintain: Poisonings are much weaker than regular attacks.
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