Leprechaun (Neutral Chaos)

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Leprechaun (Neutral Chaos)

Postby JacksonVirgo » Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:36 am

If this has been suggested before, let me know and mind linking me to it? Thank you!
Created using my HTML role formatter :D

Role Name: Leprechaun

Role Alignment: Neutral Chaos

Special Attributes:
  • Unique
Attack: None
Defense: Invincible

Abilities: Anyone who has your lucky clover wins!

Attributes:
  • You start with the lucky clover.
  • If anybody visits a player with the lucky clover, it will be stolen at the end of the night.
  • Anyone with the lucky clover wins with anybody, acts like a Survivor.
  • If the Leprechaun doesn't have its clover, it can visit to steal it back.
  • If a player kills a player with the Clover, they get the Clover.
  • The Leprechaun can hide once if it has the lucky clover, disallowing anyone from stealing it that night.
  • If the Leprechaun dies, whoever has the Clover dies as well.
    /list]

    Goal: Have your lucky clover at the end of the game!

    Notifications:
    • You have had your lucky clover stolen!
    • You have stolen the lucky clover from [who you visited], you win if you keep it!
    • You've hidden, nobody will steal your clover!

Additional Info:
The Leprechaun instantly loses if the game ends while they don't have the lucky clover.
If multiple people visit the player with the clover and none of them are the Leprechaun, it will be randomized however if the Leprechaun visits them, they will always have priority. If a player that dies at night via suicide or get lynched, the clover returns to the Leprechaun.
I don't really like that the Leprechaun can be killed at night, so invincible defense is where its at.

There are a few things in this role that would need to be added to this role, if anyone likes it I can try and fix them up to be able to work.
Such as when they are lynched or when a Jester/Juggernaut/Arsonist hits them with an unstoppable attack. Lemme know, thanks
Last edited by JacksonVirgo on Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:11 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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On-site FM Record: 11-0-11
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Re: Leprechaun (Neutral Benign)

Postby Brilliand » Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:37 pm

Green role color for a non-town role is too confusing.

A reverse hot potato... I like it. Like all Neutral Benigns it's kind of a weak use of a role slot, but it's better than Survivor in this regard.

If the player with the lucky charm gets lynched, do they keep the lucky charm and thus win while dead? Kinda sucks for the leprechaun if the player who stole the lucky charm N1 gets lynched D2, yes?
Possibly when a player with the lucky charm dies, the lucky charm automatically reverts back to the leprechaun (and if the leprechaun dies while having it, he keeps it but still loses because he's dead).
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Re: Leprechaun (Neutral Benign)

Postby Soulshade55r » Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:29 pm

Seems more like a neutral chaos role
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Re: Leprechaun (Neutral Benign)

Postby ImposterK » Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:39 pm

Cool idea, but I agree that it should be a Neutral Chaos role since it can cause a Mafia member to turn on another Mafia member to win with the Town.

Also, you should change Lucky Clover to Lucky Charm to fit with the cereal. (Might not be able to for trademark reasons though. "Lucky Charm" seems vague; however, I don't know what I'm talking about.)
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Re: Leprechaun (Neutral Benign)

Postby JacksonVirgo » Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:01 pm

Brilliand wrote:Green role color for a non-town role is too confusing.

I agree, though I couldn't think of another color to put it under.
EDIT: Changed it to a gold color for now.

Brilliand wrote:If the player with the lucky charm gets lynched, do they keep the lucky charm and thus win while dead? Kinda sucks for the leprechaun if the player who stole the lucky charm N1 gets lynched D2, yes?
Possibly when a player with the lucky charm dies, the lucky charm automatically reverts back to the leprechaun (and if the leprechaun dies while having it, he keeps it but still loses because he's dead).

At the bottom of the post, it says that if anyone dies without someone taking the charm, it returns to the Leprechaun. Nobody would want the Leprechaun to die however, but if he does die nobody gets the clover and the Leprechaun loses.

ImposterK wrote:Cool idea, but I agree that it should be a Neutral Chaos role since it can cause a Mafia member to turn on another Mafia member to win with the Town.

Also, you should change Lucky Clover to Lucky Charm to fit with the cereal. (Might not be able to for trademark reasons though. "Lucky Charm" seems vague; however, I don't know what I'm talking about.)

I was thinking of NC but since it can win with anyone, I thought NB would work better.
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Re: Leprechaun (Neutral Benign)

Postby EgyptFalcon » Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:54 am

Really love this role. It's gotta lot going for it (and evil jailors :twisted: ).

I think the clover should remain in play if the Leprechaun dies, but maybe give them 2 hides to compensate for the extra aggression against them. (And remember that invincible defense protects against arso/jest/pest) Also, if the person with the clover died at night due to guilt, jester, BG, or arsonist what happens in those scenarios? If you die with the clover do you get it back when resurrected? I feel like clover should be distributed according to visit priority because randomness makes Leprechaun's role feel unfairly difficult. Do astral visits steal the clover? Investigative result might be important? I hope that Jailors can steal the clover as well....
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Re: Leprechaun (Neutral Benign)

Postby JacksonVirgo » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:48 am

EgyptFalcon wrote:Really love this role. It's gotta lot going for it (and evil jailors :twisted: ).

I think the clover should remain in play if the Leprechaun dies, but maybe give them 2 hides to compensate for the extra aggression against them. (And remember that invincible defense protects against arso/jest/pest) Also, if the person with the clover died at night due to guilt, jester, BG, or arsonist what happens in those scenarios? If you die with the clover do you get it back when resurrected? I feel like clover should be distributed according to visit priority because randomness makes Leprechaun's role feel unfairly difficult. Do astral visits steal the clover? Investigative result might be important? I hope that Jailors can steal the clover as well....


I will make these points in dot points to make it more easily consumable than a block of text.
- I personally was a bit iffy on whether or not the clover should remain in play if the Leprechaun dies, because it would give reason to keep this role alive rather than kill them off and it would make the Leprechauns only concern being finding their clover and stealing it back.
- If the player with the clover dies with no visitors (suicide, jester haunt, arsonist ignore, bodyguard backlash), the clover would return to the Leprechaun on the exception on Bodyguard of which I feel should take the Clover but for the case of simplicity, maybe they shouldn't.
- If you get killed with any visitor, even if it was the killer, they get the clover and if the previous holder of the clover gets revived they do not get the clover back.
- A visit priority would be cool to add, however most roles with higher priority are town so that might be a tad unfair towards evils trying to steal the clover to save themselves. Maybe add the visit priority in the order of the faction with the lowest winrate, the Arsonist would steal it over the Consigliere which would steal it over the Transporter. Thoughts on that? Or is that needlessly complicated?
- Astral visits shouldn't steal the clover
- Any role that visits will steal the clover, including Jailor and Pirate who would steal it at the start of the night and would in extension be able to get it stolen off them that very same night.

I was considering visit chains, such as if the CL/Witch controls somebody into the person with the clover, the CL would get it. But that is complicated and could create an infinite loop so it would either be a CL specific thing which would buff CL in the case of a Leprechaun (can technically check two people for a clover) or just have it so that you can only have the clover stolen once per night (excluding Jailor/Pirate since they steal at the start of the night).

This could create fun team ups like in Lovers mode where there could be a Jailor siding with the mafia to kill a town etc.

EDIT: Investigator results are something I don't know about just yet.
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Re: Leprechaun (Neutral Benign)

Postby Brilliand » Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:19 pm

JacksonVirgo wrote:- I personally was a bit iffy on whether or not the clover should remain in play if the Leprechaun dies, because it would give reason to keep this role alive rather than kill them off and it would make the Leprechauns only concern being finding their clover and stealing it back.


If the Leprechaun dies, then the player with the clover dies with no visitors, then the clover is gone. I think that's good enough; no need to snatch the clover away from whoever has it just because the leprechaun is lynched.

(And the Leprechaun is hard to kill anyway, due to Invincible defense.)
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Re: Leprechaun (Neutral Benign)

Postby EgyptFalcon » Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:10 pm

I agree that simplicity is key so as to not require memorization by players. For that reason I'm not a huge fan of the jailor/pirate stealing at the start of the night -- just make it resolve once at the end of the night like most other night actions. Visit priority was just a suggestion because it's a pre-existing hierarchy that wouldn't require memorization for some players. I agree it's a bit sloppy so if you don't like it I wouldn't bother trying to create a new hierarchy.

For BG maybe if the BG died with the clover they give it to who they were protecting (unless killing role survives the attack) and if a killing role dies to BG it returns to the Leprechaun (unless BG survives the protection)? Also might not make sense lorewise but if arso incinerates the person with the clover they get it that would help him out a bit. But all these could be scrapped for simplicity's sake to say if you die at night, whoever killed you gets the clover unless they're dead too in which case it goes to Leprechaun, and if they're dead, the clover dies.
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Re: Leprechaun (Neutral Benign)

Postby JacksonVirgo » Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:05 pm

Brilliand wrote:
JacksonVirgo wrote:- I personally was a bit iffy on whether or not the clover should remain in play if the Leprechaun dies, because it would give reason to keep this role alive rather than kill them off and it would make the Leprechauns only concern being finding their clover and stealing it back.


If the Leprechaun dies, then the player with the clover dies with no visitors, then the clover is gone. I think that's good enough; no need to snatch the clover away from whoever has it just because the leprechaun is lynched.

(And the Leprechaun is hard to kill anyway, due to Invincible defense.)


Yeah, that makes sense and would work.

EgyptFalcon wrote:I agree that simplicity is key so as to not require memorization by players. For that reason I'm not a huge fan of the jailor/pirate stealing at the start of the night -- just make it resolve once at the end of the night like most other night actions. Visit priority was just a suggestion because it's a pre-existing hierarchy that wouldn't require memorization for some players. I agree it's a bit sloppy so if you don't like it I wouldn't bother trying to create a new hierarchy.

For BG maybe if the BG died with the clover they give it to who they were protecting (unless killing role survives the attack) and if a killing role dies to BG it returns to the Leprechaun (unless BG survives the protection)? Also might not make sense lorewise but if arso incinerates the person with the clover they get it that would help him out a bit. But all these could be scrapped for simplicity's sake to say if you die at night, whoever killed you gets the clover unless they're dead too in which case it goes to Leprechaun, and if they're dead, the clover dies.


For the case of Arsonist, sure why not lol. Though one problem I found is that if there is a single evil, let's just say Arsonist left in play and the rest are town/Leprechaun. Town could tell everyone who has the clover and the Arsonist can steal it and win the game with Town, unless the Leprechaun steals it first. Which could lead to everyone either lynching the Leprechaun to let the Arso win or finding the Arsonist and killing them which would be slower. So I feel there should be a penalty or a reason to keep the Leprechaun alive, it'll be unfair on the Leprechaun otherwise I feel.
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Re: Leprechaun (Neutral Benign)

Postby Brilliand » Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:12 pm

JacksonVirgo wrote:For the case of Arsonist, sure why not lol. Though one problem I found is that if there is a single evil, let's just say Arsonist left in play and the rest are town/Leprechaun. Town could tell everyone who has the clover and the Arsonist can steal it and win the game with Town, unless the Leprechaun steals it first. Which could lead to everyone either lynching the Leprechaun to let the Arso win or finding the Arsonist and killing them which would be slower. So I feel there should be a penalty or a reason to keep the Leprechaun alive, it'll be unfair on the Leprechaun otherwise I feel.


Since the Leprechaun is so confirmable, I think it's good that there's some risk to admitting you are the Leprechaun.
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Re: Leprechaun (Neutral Benign)

Postby EgyptFalcon » Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:20 pm

I think admitting to be Leprechaun should be as frowned upon as admitting to being Executioner (before you've won). After that everyone's going to visit you and you just screwed yourself out of a win.

If it's town + arso + leprechaun and arso has clover doesn't leprechaun auto lose right there? No lynch necessary. Plus if everyone knows who has the clover, leprechaun has stealing priority so that wouldn't really work.

If you want to buff leprechaun, maybe let them predict who will steal it on nights they have the clover and if they guess correctly then nothing is stolen. But I think it's fine atm
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Re: Leprechaun (Neutral Benign)

Postby JacksonVirgo » Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:23 am

EgyptFalcon wrote:I think admitting to be Leprechaun should be as frowned upon as admitting to being Executioner (before you've won). After that everyone's going to visit you and you just screwed yourself out of a win.

Yeah, that makes sense though when you're on the stand it's hard not to claim what you are lmao

EgyptFalcon wrote:If it's town + arso + leprechaun and arso has clover doesn't leprechaun auto lose right there? No lynch necessary. Plus if everyone knows who has the clover, leprechaun has stealing priority so that wouldn't really work.

True, and yeah the Leprechaun would just lose in that situation.

EgyptFalcon wrote:If you want to buff leprechaun, maybe let them predict who will steal it on nights they have the clover and if they guess correctly then nothing is stolen. But I think it's fine atm

That could work but I also agree that it doesn't really need that, the hiding should work just a good I feel.
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