Mafia Role Changes (megathread)

Suggest new roles or changes to current roles for the game here.

Mafia Role Changes (megathread)

Postby JacksonVirgo » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:21 am

I know, I know! This type of post is created a lot and honestly they are kind of repetitive so I am going to suggest a new way of looking at Mafia roles. When I think of Mafia in the real world, I think of very organized crime that all work together to kill and conceal (I liked the rhyme so I am keepin' that).

This is a post where Mafia roles get tweaked and changed but what I am more focusing on is changes that overall benefit the entire mafia in support or deception rather than specific roles that are situational at best. If you pick up any paradoxes, questions or contradictions please let me know by replying and I will edit it and credit you justly.

Starting with the most important role first. The Godfather! The top dog of the Mafia currently can't do much at apart from ordering a kill, the only difference from them and the Mafioso is its innate Defense. Town, Mafia and Coven should all have all opposing factions leader as a strong priority to kill. Town has the Mayor and Jailor, Coven has their Coven Leader and Mafia has their Godfather. All except the Godfather are extremely powerful roles so here I am to suggest one way to make the Godfather strong enough to warrant fear from other factions. My thought was to give Godfather a three use ability to strengthen the roles of other Mafia members for one night.

Disguiser is a role concept I absolutely love but the practicality of it is broken and needs reworking. I have done a lot of thinking since my last Disguiser post as to how exactly it could be done and I think I may have a great idea how to do it without throwing the whole 'disguising as a targets role' concept. Many people suggest giving Disguiser a whole role-list to choose from but I don't really like that idea personally so my full idea/speech follows (apparently spoiler boxes don't work)
Give the Disguiser two rows of buttons at night and give them an option box (similar to PM's potions) for either Role Disguise or Identity Disguise.

Role Disguise. This works very similar to the current Disguiser where the first column of boxes choose which Mafia member you wish to be disguised and the second column selects which person's role the selected Mafia will be disguised as. For example if the Janitor is selected in the first box and the Escort in the second, if the Janitor dies, gets investigated, checked by sheriff, seen by Trap the role shown or seen would the Escorts results. If your disguised player dies, they will die with that role shown to town and if Town, can be revived by the Retributionist.

Identity Disguise. This role still has the Disguiser's proposed two columns of buttons. This one is disguising yourself as another player and visiting with their face. The first column of buttons being a selection of anybody in game including yourself to disguise as and the second being who you want to visit with their face. For example, your teammate wants to claim Doctor as Hypnotist but since they cannot visit without giving some form of obvious hypno result every night the Lookout will call them out. Using an Identity Disguise you can use the face of the Hypnotist to visit the target so the Lookout sees they visit without needing to risk showing a "attacked and healed" message every night which will be sus. You can also use the face of another to trick Lookout into thinking an innocent visited a death scene.

When using an Identity disguise. Tracker will track you instead of the target to who you visit which you can use to frame too. Spy will see a member of the Mafia visited the mafia being disguised.

Godfather Powerup! When given a Godfather powerup this role can do one of two things depending on which type of Disguise is being used. If the Role Disguise is being used on another Mafia or yourself and they die, they will be shown with that role to town however if the Identity Disguise is being used something different occurs. Regarding the Identity Disguise, 'target' means the person you disguise as and 'Disguiser' is this role. If your target gets killed by any Mafia role, the target dies but takes on the Disguiser's face and thus the Disguisers role and will will be shown to town whereas the Disguiser will 'take control' of the targets face, name, will and death note (if applicable) for the rest of the game and can pretend to be that person. (for jury reasons, something may need changing, lemme know)

In conclusion with the Disguiser, I think that this role would be incredibly useful in combination with other Mafia roles and their claims while alive whereas the current Disguiser usually has to die and still have little effect on the game.

Forger is another cool concept but again the practicality of this role is extremely situational and broken. A lot of people seem to suggest reading the targets will and editing it but that will act way too similar to the Consigliere and the only information gathering Mafia members should be Consigliere for roles and Blackmailer for whispers. I suggest a different way of looking at this role. Full idea/speech following.

The Forger has two main abilities. They can forge the Last Wills of players as well as one chance to forge player votes.

Rewriting Last Wills. Exactly like the current Forger, you can replace the Last Will of a dying player permanently into whatever you want whether that be a completely constructed Investigator will or just leave it blank to imply they didn't write a will to begin with, another ability regarding Last Wills is that each night the Forger can edit the Last Wills of dead players whether slightly or completely remove all information from a will. You can only edit a dead players will/replace a dying players will three times (as long as they succeed).

Vote Forging. Only once, the Forger can either forge every players vote to force a unanimous vote of either be Guilty, Abstain or Innocent and ending the day. This can be used either to save a fellow mafia member from death temporarily, framing a town member, forcing a Jester lynch as well as stopping VFR from happening since if Mayor, Jailor or another high priority town member appears on stand the Forger can instant-kill them. Though Town would instantly know that there is a Forger in game.

In conclusion, Forger should be able to forge more than Last Wills though this change is not a role which helps in combination with another role but is an idea I thought I'd throw in. If you have any ideas of how we could adapt this to work in combination with other Mafia members let me know and I will add it in and credit you.

Mafioso's Godfather Powerup!. This role doesn't need any changes per se so here's just a powerup for it. Mafioso will game an Unstoppable attack. Now hear me out, that's overpowered but for the sake of balance this can only be done once no matter how many charges the Godfather has left. This can be used to pierce TP/LO calls or destroy TP chains.

Ambusher's Godfather Powerup!. At the moment I am just going to write a powerup for this role before giving it a small rework later down the line. This role will attack all non-mafia visitors of a particular target but again can only be used once per game (the Mafioso and Ambusher both cannot have their powerups used in one game, it's one or neither). Can also be used to pierce TP/LO calls.

Consigliere's Godfather Powerup!. This role is plenty powerful and does not need reworking so I will suggest a powerup for this role. Give the Consigliere the ability to not only know your targets exact role (possibly bypassing douses? May be too harsh on Arsonist though) as well as seeing your targets visit and all visitors to that target.

More will be added in the future. I am posting this early with Forger and Disguiser just to get at least a small amount of feedback writing out the other roles as well to see if this type of of post interest people. If you have any ideas for either edits to the roles listed or roles I haven't stated state them and I will add them to the thread (and credit you of course :D)
Last edited by JacksonVirgo on Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:04 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Mafia Role Changes (megathread)

Postby efebozkurt2 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:54 am

im supporting all of them
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Re: Mafia Role Changes (megathread)

Postby ScarfVendetta » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:13 am

For the Disguiser reworks:

I really like the identity disguise idea for the Disguiser. In the current Ranked metagame, it's difficult for mafia members to fakeclaim a role that would normally visit the Jailor Night 1. It's only really viable for a Framer or Disguiser to do it (Consigliere usually has more important targets to visit) as they have unlimited visits to fool Lookouts later on. Even then, they can easily be called out if there is a Spy/Lookout combo. Allowing for the Disguiser to complement it's teammates claims should be a help in dealing with this, as well as coming in handy later for framing townies as having visited the mafia kill target. Plus, it's almost like a throwback to the old version of Disguiser where you would steal players names, except this version is actually useful.

Changing your fellow mafia members results would be a good addition, and it also allows the Disguiser to seriously mess with the Spy. I don't think the Disguiser should be able to change the role that a mafia member appears when they die though, as this would be a bit too powerful. It's fine for the Disguiser to keep this ability as you know if they aren't what they appeared as then they must be the Disguiser, but if a disguised target could be any member of the mafia, that could cause some serious headaches for townies. This would create way too much uncertainty in Disguiser games.


For the Forger reworks:


I do like small addition to Forger now being able to edit the wills of players whose wills are already in the graveyard. It would mean that townies should pay more attention to the last wills as they appear or risk their contents being changed before they re-read them.

The vote forging idea sounds very powerful, and although I do personally quite like it, I don't think it would ever be implemented. Vote manipulation is not something they're keen to add as an ability. Despite this, as a 1-use ability when a player is already on trial, it does have the restrictions necessary to keep it somewhat in check. Town would have to be more selective with who they put on trial, which I think is a good thing. Nowadays town will usually stretch out the days with multiple trials so they can focus more on the players they have suspicions on and give themselves more time to look over all the info.

I don't like the whisper-reading changes though. It's the most important attribute the Blackmailer has, and the Forger would not need this on top of the other abilities you proposed. I disagree with your comment about the lore behind the roles too: the Blackmailer is supposed to eavesdrop to learn secrets in order to use them against their targets, so it makes sense that it can read whispers. Whispers are meant to be spoken not written, so it does not make sense that a Forger that manipulates paper documents would have enhanced access to verbal information such as whispers


Overall, good stuff. Disguiser and especially Forger are currently pretty trash, so some buffs would be well-deserved.
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Re: Mafia Role Changes (megathread)

Postby JacksonVirgo » Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:06 am

Upping due to new points/roles added.

Added Roles.
- Godfather
- Consigliere
- Mafioso
- Ambusher

Update Roles.
- Disguiser
  • Added a Godfather Powerup
- Forger
  • Reverted BM/Forger whisper read swap as suggested by ScarfVendetta
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Re: Mafia Role Changes (megathread)

Postby Brilliand » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:11 am

Consider adding the "Tactical Mafia Kills" proposal. This is essentially a Mafioso rework, that allows any member of the Mafia to choose to be the Mafioso for a night, instead of having a fixed Mafioso role. (The Ranked rolelist would then have the Godfather and 3 RMs.) This creates a better dynamic between the Mafia and the Escort.
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