Medium (Town Support)

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Medium (Town Support)

Postby DragonClaw66 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:13 pm

Name: Medium
Alignment: Town Support
Summary: A secret psychic who speaks with the dead.
Stats: Attack - None, Defense - None
Specials: None
Type: Non-Unique

Sheriff Results: You cannot find evidence of wrongdoing. Your target seems innocent.
Investigator Results: N/A
Consigliere Results: Your target speaks with the dead. They must be a Medium.

Abilities:
- Seance a dead Town member at night.
- Communicate with a living player.
Attributes:
- A seance informs you of the following about your target: role, private messages, notifications, targeted players, and last will.
- You can target cleaned and stoned players, however, if your target is not a Town member, you will be notified of this and nothing else. The same applies if your target is a Disguiser that disguised as a Town member.
- You can only speak with a living player if you are dead.

Goal: Lynch every criminal and evildoer.
Victory Conditions:
- (Current Town win conditions).

Achievements:
- Oracle: Win 1 game as a Medium.
- Prophet: Win 5 games as a Medium.
- Diviner: Win 10 games as a Medium.
- Harbinger: Win 25 games as a Medium.
- Job’s Not Done: Speak with a revealed Mayor after dying.
- We Got ‘Em: Discover that a Sheriff found a target to be suspicious.
- Unearthed: Discover the information of a cleaned or stoned player.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Medium is not balanced; it's one of the most swingy roles in the game. Its level of power is completely determined by the other roles that roll, namely itself. Multiple Mediums can be the sole factor that decides whether or not the game ends in a Town victory.

- 0 Mediums: The Town is in a good position, as the other Town Support roles are typically much stronger than the Medium (the Escort, in my opinion, is still more powerful, just not as much).
- 1 Medium: The Town is not in the best position. The Medium doesn't come up with useful information very often, and there is only one, meaning it will be harder to confirm.
- 2 Mediums: The Town is in a strong position. By the third day, all Mediums will be confirmed, one way or another (remember that if one dies, they can seance).
- 3 Mediums: The above but more.
- 4 Mediums: Town wins.

The rework that I proposed still allows the Medium to gain information from the deceased, reduces the effect of leavers on the role, and prevents instant confirmability in games with multiple Mediums (with or without a Retributionist).
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Re: Medium (Town Support)

Postby Brilliand » Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:43 pm

IMO the obvious solution to the Medium's cross-confirmability is to make it unique. The inherent confirmability of unique roles doesn't really apply here, since two mediums claims can quickly confirm or disconfirm each other anyway (under the current implementation).

I like the idea of the medium seeing the various information that was only visible to the dead townie, but I think it should get this in addition to its current "speak with dead" ability. This preserves the ability to let a smart townie continue contributing his smarts to the game.
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Re: Medium (Town Support)

Postby DragonClaw66 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:48 pm

Brilliand wrote:IMO the obvious solution to the Medium's cross-confirmability is to make it unique. The inherent confirmability of unique roles doesn't really apply here, since two mediums claims can quickly confirm or disconfirm each other anyway (under the current implementation).

I like the idea of the medium seeing the various information that was only visible to the dead townie, but I think it should get this in addition to its current "speak with dead" ability. This preserves the ability to let a smart townie continue contributing his smarts to the game.

Making the Medium unique is not the solution. It does solve the problem of cross-confirmability, but it removes yet another possible claim from evildoers (this is one of the reasons I dislike the Veteran).

As much as I would like for dead Town members to be able to contribute to the Town's victory, there isn't a way to do that without either removing claim space for evildoers or allowing cross-confirmability.
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Re: Medium (Town Support)

Postby ImposterK » Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:06 pm

I do like this idea. In my opinion, Medium is one of the more boring roles, so removing the "speaking to the dead" aspect of this role would not be an issue. It'll only make everything cleaner since the Medium will get the information clearly and instantly. I support this, good job.
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Re: Medium (Town Support)

Postby philip1077 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:52 am

Guys check out this forum where I state that Medium should be unique.

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=102441
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Re: Medium (Town Support)

Postby DragonClaw66 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:11 am

philip1077 wrote:Guys check out this forum where I state that Medium should be unique.

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=102441

Making the Medium unique doesn't solve anything. As I said above, it does prevent cross-confirmability, but it prevents a claim that evildoers can use, and the pool of possible claims is already extremely limited. Converting the Medium into a targeting role rather then a speaking role retains all of its power (and adds some) while preventing it from overwhelming evildoers. Your thread discusses how multiple Mediums isn't good for the Town as it is a weak claim; though I don't see how multiple Mediums puts the Town in a bad spot, my rework buffs it by letting it learn more direct information.
Last edited by DragonClaw66 on Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Medium (Town Support)

Postby StrahmDude » Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:06 pm

Why don't we make it so the medium gets the most current version of a will, even if it was edited post-death? That way smart townies can still contribute, it still has cross confirmability but better than the current medium, and really the same as the current suggestion.
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Re: Medium (Town Support)

Postby Brilliand » Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:42 am

StrahmDude wrote:Why don't we make it so the medium gets the most current version of a will, even if it was edited post-death? That way smart townies can still contribute, it still has cross confirmability but better than the current medium, and really the same as the current suggestion.


Would be mighty frustrating, checking various wills only to discover that they haven't changed (yet). Also, it would be nice if any medium rework helped the medium to cope with leavers.

...and of course this still has full cross-confirmability if the dead townies play to a meta.
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Re: Medium (Town Support)

Postby StrahmDude » Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:46 am

So far Both of these as cross confirmability. Jailors job is just to whisper codes to everyone for medium confirmation. Invalid codes given to maf as they are only viable once dead and BOOM. Medium has the same problems and is just more annoying to play.
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Re: Medium (Town Support)

Postby NefariousDjinn » Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:10 pm

It seems it would be more efficient to simply give the Medium two abilities

-You may select one dead player at night to Commune with.

-Communing with a dead player will reveal their last action before death, their target and results.

-You may Seance one living player after death.

And that's it. You won't know the role but you would be able to figure that out by context details. You don't get the will of stoned or cleaned people but you get their last result. Examples would be:

You have chosen to commune with John Hathorne

Your target interrogated Giles Correy: The target seemed innocent of any wrongdoing

Alternatively

Your target interrogated Ann Sears: Someone occupied their night, they were role blocked!

So a clever consort could rb a known sheriff when they are killed and waste the night of the sheriff and the medium who attempts to gain their info after death.

Seance would work as it does now. This solves the problem of town who leave immediately after death. Removes cross confirmation. And allows mafia to delay information. Medium would still be an easy role to claim, mafia and coven can take advantage of stoned and cleaned roles to feed false information to town. And the only way to confirm a medium would be to have a medium and ret in the same game.
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Re: Medium (Town Support)

Postby orangeandblack5 » Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:04 pm

Alternatively

What if we didn't discourage dead Town leaving

Because they are dead and shouldn't need to stick around if they don't have to
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Spoiler:
SwampRabbit wrote:your idea is that no town should ever be able to confirm themselves as town.

that is the dumbest idea I think I have heard.

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