Spiritualist (Neutral Killing)

[MorganTheMod]

Role Name:
Spiritualist (color number 400080)

Role Alignment:
Neutral Killing

Abilities:
You may vote to kill a target each night.

Attributes:
Every full moon you will gain 1 vote. (N2: 2, N4: 3, N6: 4)
You will attack whoever has the most votes.
If you have the most graveyard votes, you will attack your desired target.
When not killing your target of choice, you will rampage at whichever target won the graveyard vote, and your visit will be astral. (Spirits chose target, so Spiritualist gains more killing power)
If you do not choose a target or you are out voted, you will still attack the winner of the graveyard vote, you will be granted rampage and astral abilities for that kill. (Submitting self to the Spirits wishes)
Can hear the dead chat during the discussion phase. The dead will appear as Spirits. (cannot see the name of the person talking but will see the message)

Goal:
Kill everyone who would oppose you. (Neutral Killing)

Special Attributes:
Unique Roll
Basic Defense
Basic Attack
Can hear dead chat during the daytime phase.
Spiritualist cannot kill night one, as there are no dead to channel.
The dead will not be able to see who the other dead or who the Spiritualist are/is voting for and vice versa.
The Spiritualist will not see how many votes each alive player has (like you would when voting someone to trial), or which dead have voted.
If a dead person does not vote at night, their vote will not be randomized or count against any player.
The Spiritualist will see the dead as Spirits and will not see the players name when the dead speak at daytime.
If the entire graveyard vote is unanimous (including Spiritualist’s votes unless abstained) then the attack becomes Unstoppable. Votes for the Spiritualist will not count against the unanimous count as long as all other votes were cast for the same target. The Spiritualist will not rampage or use an astral attack when using an unstoppable attack) . (is this too op? provides solution for end game stand offs)
Once per game the Spiritualist may choose to declare defiance and kill their exact target of choice with a Powerful Attack, however they forfeit their graveyard votes the next night.
The dead will not be notified that there is a Spiritualist. They will discover this when a Spiritualist kills or when the voting options show up at night while dead.

Investigative Results:
Sheriff- Your target is suspicious.
Investigator- Same as medium.
Consigliere/Coven Leader/Potion Master- Your target channels the power of the dead to kill. They must be a Spiritualist!

Lore and achievements coming soon.
(Lore will have to do with bargaining with the dead for power so the Spiritualist gives dead a say in who they kill in order for their powers.)

This role introduces an interesting dynamic for the graveyard members and spiritualist. This will help keep graveyard members engaged, while also helping the Medium. Different factions may use the Spiritualist as a means to try to help their faction. It has been designed so that there is a balance between the Spiritualists independence/ weakness and Spirit’s control/ Spiritualists buffs. If the Spirits unite (hard to do) and dominate the vote, then the Spiritualist may not attack who he/she wants, but will strike with more force and power. The Spiritualist is weaker when they get to chose their own target, which requires them to target who the Spirits would want if he-she wants more killing power.

[Brilliand]

Some comments on each of the possible goals:

• To be Coven, it needs a Necronomicon power
• To be Neutral Killing, it needs to be able to kill reliably (i.e. have the Necronomicon power at all times)
• If it goes Town Killing, I recommend that it not hear the dead. It's too confirmable that way.
• I don't actually understand what what the Neutral Chaos goal "Win with one other faction" means. I previously thought it meant you were going to specify a faction, but you haven't.

[MorganTheMod]

Some comments on each of the possible goals:

• To be Coven, it needs a Necronomicon power
• To be Neutral Killing, it needs to be able to kill reliably (i.e. have the Necronomicon power at all times)
• If it goes Town Killing, I recommend that it not hear the dead. It's too confirmable that way.
• I don't actually understand what what the Neutral Chaos goal "Win with one other faction" means. I previously thought it meant you were going to specify a faction, but you haven't.

No, what I meant by win with one other faction is similar to how the witch works, except that it could be any faction including town. Or similar to your Conqueror who can win with technically 2 other factions that have 1 member standing. Meaning if their are 2 Serial Killers and they end up winning the game, they don’t have to kill the Spiritualist because the Spiritualist can win with them. There is no specified faction.


And I agree with the Town and dead hearing part, that’s why I put a (Neutral Chaos) next to it. I originally only thought the Neutral Chaos version would be able to hear them but the Neutral Killing or Coven may be granted that ability.

And I doubt as Coven they could kill every night without the Necronomicon. Meaning there has to be a nerfed version to give the role by default if it is Coven.

[Brilliand]

No, what I meant by win with one other faction is similar to how the witch works, except that it could be any faction including town.

So the Survivor win condition?

Or similar to your Conqueror who can win with technically 2 other factions that have 1 member standing.

Conqueror doesn't with with those other factions, though. If the Conqueror wins, the other factions lose. It's a "you may spare", not a "win with".

[MorganTheMod]

No, what I meant by win with one other faction is similar to how the witch works, except that it could be any faction including town.

So the Survivor win condition?

Or similar to your Conqueror who can win with technically 2 other factions that have 1 member standing.

Conqueror doesn't with with those other factions, though. If the Conqueror wins, the other factions lose. It's a "you may spare", not a "win with".

You got me there.
Either I need a new goal for the Neutral Chaos Alignment or Neutral Chaos is out the window.

[MorganTheMod]

made some changes with the alignment options and invest results - bump

[superdog551]

Hey this is pretty cool! It makes the graveyard more fun. It should be Neutral Chaos, except it should have the NK goal like the Pestilence. There are a few issues, though. If the dead is a town majority then you pretty much become a new vigilante, and if it is scum majority then you become an extra killer. This is slightly circumvented by the even and odd night voters being split up but without being tested I'm not sure whether or not this is a serious issue.

That being said, I think it is very interesting and could be a fun addition to the game. The graveyard is kind of overlooked so anything to spice it up, in ways that aren't game breaking, are cool

[Ezradekezra]

As a NK this is incredibly weak (lack of control over targets, can randomly be unable to kill if the dead will it, and is otherwise just a SK that can see the dead chat)

My understanding is that the NC variant just has a Survivor wincon (which I think would make it NB instead), which doesn't make sense to me since the role's abilities are geared toward killing and not survival

It's a neat concept, just needs quite a bit of buffing imo

[MorganTheMod]

As a NK this is incredibly weak (lack of control over targets, can randomly be unable to kill if the dead will it, and is otherwise just a SK that can see the dead chat)

My understanding is that the NC variant just has a Survivor wincon (which I think would make it NB instead), which doesn't make sense to me since the role's abilities are geared toward killing and not survival

It's a neat concept, just needs quite a bit of buffing imo

hey thank you so much for your feedback i really appreciate it!
you are right, if we decided to go the NK route, then i think this would need some buffs to give it more self support and have the ability to actually win a game on its own. some buffs i was thinking about are as follows:
- 3 times during the game the spiritualist can over rule the dead vote and kill exactly who they want
- if the Spiritualist is voted for by the dead (knowingly or coincidentally, dead won’t always know who spiritualist is) then the spiritualist automatically kills who the personally voted for
- the spiritualist has an astral visit (can’t be caught by a TI, gives means to kill veteran or medusa of the dead see fit, makes sense with powers originating from the dead, spooky ahhh)(also couldn’t be killed by bodyguard - acting for the dead)
- once a game the Spiritualist can seance the dead if they choose, this would happen at night
- greater weight in the vote, maybe they received a vote for every day alive meaning n1 - 1 vote, n2 - 2 votes, etc to help weight out dead as by n4 there are usually more than 4 dead alive.
- utilize a powerful attack, meaning they could kill someone with basic defense but not someone healed by a doctor.

do any of these buffs seem like they would be a good fit?
trying to think of things that will help set it apart from other nk’s while maintaining the “power from the dead” concept.

[Ezradekezra]

As a NK this is incredibly weak (lack of control over targets, can randomly be unable to kill if the dead will it, and is otherwise just a SK that can see the dead chat)

My understanding is that the NC variant just has a Survivor wincon (which I think would make it NB instead), which doesn't make sense to me since the role's abilities are geared toward killing and not survival

It's a neat concept, just needs quite a bit of buffing imo

hey thank you so much for your feedback i really appreciate it!
you are right, if we decided to go the NK route, then i think this would need some buffs to give it more self support and have the ability to actually win a game on its own. some buffs i was thinking about are as follows:
- 3 times during the game the spiritualist can over rule the dead vote and kill exactly who they want
- if the Spiritualist is voted for by the dead (knowingly or coincidentally, dead won’t always know who spiritualist is) then the spiritualist automatically kills who the personally voted for
- the spiritualist has an astral visit (can’t be caught by a TI, gives means to kill veteran or medusa of the dead see fit, makes sense with powers originating from the dead, spooky ahhh)(also couldn’t be killed by bodyguard - acting for the dead)
- once a game the Spiritualist can seance the dead if they choose, this would happen at night
- greater weight in the vote, maybe they received a vote for every day alive meaning n1 - 1 vote, n2 - 2 votes, etc to help weight out dead as by n4 there are usually more than 4 dead alive.
- utilize a powerful attack, meaning they could kill someone with basic defense but not someone healed by a doctor.

do any of these buffs seem like they would be a good fit?
trying to think of things that will help set it apart from other nk’s while maintaining the “power from the dead” concept.

I would go with the bolded buff and have it do a powerful rampage instead of a basic attack when the dead override the Spiritualist's vote as well, so there's an upside to being outvoted.

That way the dead can either try to make the Spiritualist go for bad targets or try to keep the Spiritualist from rampaging, and they have to figure out which play is the best.

I think this differentiation in attack strength might also warrant having the votes hidden from the Spiritualist so that it's harder for them to play around this (it might be kinda OP in that case), but I'm not really sure.

---
Didn't pay attention to this part before but I would probably also change the Invest results to Med/Jan/Ret/Necro/Trap so that it's with Medium

[Brilliand]

Just spitballing here... how's this for a buffed version of the same concept?

Neutral Killing
Basic defense
Basic attack
- You can attack one person per night.

In addition, while you live:
- Each night each dead player may guess who you will attack.
- If any individual dead player correctly predicts your attack 3 times, that player wins, regardless of faction.
- Whichever player gets the most votes ("guesses") from dead players will be dealt an Unstoppable attack. Votes for the Spiritualist are ignored for this purpose.
- In case of a tie <someone dies anyway by some consistent rule I haven't decided on>
- If there are dead players but none of them vote a non-Spiritualist target <someone dies anyway by some consistent rule I haven't decided on>
- If the dead player kill is correctly directed onto the same player the Spiritualist targets 3 times, the Spiritualist dies *unless he is the last faction-aligned player left alive*.

Note that I dropped the "speak with dead" think and made the Spiritualist and Dead have an antagonistic relationship.

[MorganTheMod]

Just spitballing here... how's this for a buffed version of the same concept?

Neutral Killing
Basic defense
Basic attack
- You can attack one person per night.

In addition, while you live:
- Each night each dead player may guess who you will attack.
- If any individual dead player correctly predicts your attack 3 times, that player wins, regardless of faction.
- Whichever player gets the most votes ("guesses") from dead players will be dealt an Unstoppable attack. Votes for the Spiritualist are ignored for this purpose.
- In case of a tie <someone dies anyway by some consistent rule I haven't decided on>
- If there are dead players but none of them vote a non-Spiritualist target <someone dies anyway by some consistent rule I haven't decided on>
- If the dead player kill is correctly directed onto the same player the Spiritualist targets 3 times, the Spiritualist dies *unless he is the last faction-aligned player left alive*.

Note that I dropped the "speak with dead" think and made the Spiritualist and Dead have an antagonistic relationship.

i dont hate this. Are you meaning that there would be 2 people who die each night, one from the spiritualist and 1 from the dead vote? this is very different from my original, "dead give power to 1 person to kill for them with buffs but in turn they can control him every now and then" intent. this will almost always give the n1 death(s) a kill of their own.

this provides a means for dead faction members to protect their faction and attempt to rid an evil, which is good because personally my goal is to engage the graveyard with either a common enemy or means to an end (meaning they don't want to side with an NK but might have to to help their faction, and im sure the other neutrals will still have fun with it.)

what i'm worried about with that unstoppable attack every night is that town members just gang up, tell each other who they are voting for and annihilate who they believe to be evil, which makes me afraid to put the dead and the spiritualist against each other.
if youre looking for something dumb for the rule, make it like in a tie who ever had the most recent chat during daytime, or random is whoever had the last chat, as people are never gonna stop talking after a trial or at the end the day, even if it means they get the AFK dead votes. or whoever who has the most chats logged in the game to target the spammers.
will also have to plan for the possibility of the spiritualist being rb'd or not picking a target.

this is an interesting twist and might work with some specifications, but I am also getting game mode vibes from this dead killing each night thing.

[Brilliand]

It's just a brainstorm - I'm not planning to complete the role myself. You can strip it for parts if you like any of it.

what i'm worried about with that unstoppable attack every night is that town members just gang up, tell each other who they are voting for and annihilate who they believe to be evil, which makes me afraid to put the dead and the spiritualist against each other.

So you want the dead kill to be a Basic attack so that it can't be used effectively against evils? Makes sense to me.

this is an interesting twist and might work with some specifications, but I am also getting game mode vibes from this dead killing each night thing.

Yeah, and the "you can win without your faction if you succeed at the graveyard minigame" thing also seems a bit much to insert into an existing gamemode.