Pythoness (CE) [Poisoner Overhaul]

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Pythoness (CE) [Poisoner Overhaul]

Postby DestructionII » Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:30 pm

Pythoness

A member of the Coven whose only desire is to see their foes suffer in agony.

Alignment: Coven (Evil)

Attack: Basic
Defense: None

Abilities: During the night, decide to place your target into a delirium.

Attributes:
Spoiler: -Your target will die from a coma the next night. (Basic attack)
-Any role with a Basic defense or above are invulnerable from deliriums.
-Deluded targets will be notified that they were placed into a delirium.
-A Doctor can visit a target to recover their delirium.


Necronomicon Attributes:
Spoiler: -With the Necronomicon, deluded targets can NOT be saved.
-With the Necronomicon, you can drain a target's spirit and place it into a doppelganger (you can only have one doppelganger at a time)] OR to continue deluding targets. (Exclusive UI for this similar to Hypnotist.)
-You can not delude and drain spirits at the same time.
-Targets who have their spirits drained will be killed, and you will reanimate them into a doppelganger,
-Targets who have their spirits drained can not communicate with the dead/Medium, and if they leave the game, their leave message will not appear.


What does a Doppelganger do?
Spoiler: -When a Pythoness decides to drain a target's spirit, the target will be killed, but turned into a doppelganger.
-Doppelgangers are fake clones of the original target, so it will appear as if the person you killed is alive.
-You can alternate between your chat and the doppelganger's chat by typing /say <message>
-You can control your doppelganger's vote by typing /vote <player> and /vote <innocent/guilty>

-Your doppelganger can still be lynched and killed. Once this happens, you may drain another target's spirit and place it into a doppelganger.
-If you die, your doppelganger dies with you. If you get lynched or killed at night, the doppelganger's death message appears: "Soandso was killed last night. He died with the Pythoness."
-If you turn a Jester into a doppelganger and the doppelganger gets lynched, the doppelganger can not haunt anyone. But, a jester message still appears when they are lynched.


Investigative Results:
Spoiler: Investigator: Your target is a Sheriff, Executioner, Werewolf, or Pythoness.
Consigliere: Your target is a portent of curses and agony. They must be a Pythoness!
Sheriff: Your target is suspicious!
Sheriff (with Necronomicon): Your target is not suspicious.


Goal: Kill all those who oppose the Coven.

Achievements:

Role-Independent Achievements:
Jinx: Win 1 game as a Pythoness.
Tormentor: Win 5 games as a Pythoness.
Adelaide Wilson: Win 10 games as a Pythoness.
Schizopolis: Win 25 games as a Pythoness.

Role Dependent Achievements:
Double Doubles: Successfully create 2 doppelgangers in one game.
Last Meal: Have a jailed player die to your delirium.
Delayed Paranoia: Have a veteran on alert die to your delirium.


Notifications:
Spoiler: You have decided to place _____ into a delirium.
You have decided to drain _____'s spirit and place it into a doppelganger. (With Necronomicon)
You are in a state of a delirium. You will die tomorrow unless you are cured!
You consulted with a Doctor and got your delirium cured.
You are in a state of a delirium . You will die tomorrow!
Your spirit was drained and placed inside a doppelganger! You have died!
Your target was invulnerable to your delirium.
____ died last night. They were cursed by a Pythoness.


Example Scenario for the Necronomicon Attribute:
Spoiler: Robbie= Pythoness
Bob= Amnesiac
Coolcat= Vigilante

Night 3:
Robbie gets the Necronomicon.
Robbie drains Bob's spirit and puts it into a doppelganger.
Bob dies, but it appears as if he is still alive.

Day 4:
-Appears as if there were no deaths.
-Bob leaves the game, but their leave message is hidden.

-Robbie types /say HEY GUYS OMG!
-Bob: HEY GUYS OMG!

Night 4:
-CoolCat decides to shoot Bob (the Doppelganger).
-Robbie decides to place CoolCat into a delirium.

Day 5:
-It appears as if Bob was shot by a Vigilante. (Which is a doppelganger)
-The Pythoness can now drain another person's spirit.
Last edited by DestructionII on Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:12 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Pythoness (CE) [Poisoner Overhaul]

Postby Brilliand » Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:06 am

Having the poison stopped by a Medium instead of a Doctor is a nerf, because the Doctor's visits have other uses, while the Medium's don't (so this version is no longer tying down anything important). Also, it's a litle screwy to give the Medium the ability to visit just for the sake of a role that may or may not actually be in the game.

The Doppelganger is a buff, but it isn't as powerful as it looks at first glance, since the Town will know who it is and you can only have one. It's roughly equivalent to one bonus kill... which, considering how the Poisoner loses roughly one kill from being a "delayed killer", sounds just about right. However, it's a pretty complicated mechanic for how simple its net effect is.
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Re: Pythoness (CE) [Poisoner Overhaul]

Postby DestructionII » Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:43 pm

Brilliand wrote:Having the poison stopped by a Medium instead of a Doctor is a nerf, because the Doctor's visits have other uses, while the Medium's don't (so this version is no longer tying down anything important). Also, it's a litle screwy to give the Medium the ability to visit just for the sake of a role that may or may not actually be in the game.

The Doppelganger is a buff, but it isn't as powerful as it looks at first glance, since the Town will know who it is and you can only have one. It's roughly equivalent to one bonus kill... which, considering how the Poisoner loses roughly one kill from being a "delayed killer", sounds just about right. However, it's a pretty complicated mechanic for how simple its net effect is.


Lorewise, it makes better sense for a Medium to save a curse than a Doctor, but I will edit it later so that the Doctor is able to save the "curse" and fit the lore.

Do remember that even though you may consider the doppelganger ability as a "bonus kill", the Pythoness can have multiple doppelgangers, but just one at a time. In addition, Doppelgangers can vote whom the Pythoness wishes to vote, so it gets an extra vote. However, this is another thing I'm worried about, since additional votes for the Coven may be too OP.
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Re: Pythoness (CE) [Poisoner Overhaul]

Postby DestructionII » Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:15 pm

Update: Edited most of the Pythoness lorewise and ADDED an example scenario.
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Re: Pythoness (CE) [Poisoner Overhaul]

Postby Brilliand » Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:41 pm

DestructionII wrote:Do remember that even though you may consider the doppelganger ability as a "bonus kill", the Pythoness can have multiple doppelgangers, but just one at a time. In addition, Doppelgangers can vote whom the Pythoness wishes to vote, so it gets an extra vote. However, this is another thing I'm worried about, since additional votes for the Coven may be too OP.


No, that's what I mean. Assuming the town doesn't bother to kill the doppelganger (because clearly it would just be a wasted day), the net effect of creating a doppelganger instead of merely killing someone is an extra vote for Coven.

An extra vote for Coven is equivalent to one confirmed townie dead, as far as its effect on the coven vs. town win chances.
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Re: Pythoness (CE) [Poisoner Overhaul]

Postby PleaseReadSiege » Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:52 am

Controlling the votes makes sense, but the devs will likely NEVER allow you to say things for another player again. This used to happen with disguiser (back when it was actually kind of a fun role IMO), and it made reporting too confusing. People would abuse this to get other players reported.
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Re: Pythoness (CE) [Poisoner Overhaul]

Postby Brilliand » Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:17 pm

Making the doppelganger talk is useless anyway, since everyone will know the doppelganger is helping the Coven.
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Re: Pythoness (CE) [Poisoner Overhaul]

Postby MorganTheMod » Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:52 pm

i LOVE this role and it sounds super cool!! /support
love the whole doppelganger addition and is perfect since roles only occasionally get the Necronomicon so I don't think that it is op at all.

maybe taking away the element to talk isn't a horrible idea, but you could also do this:

create a 1 message per day limit where you can choose when to send the message but it has to be a limit of a certain number of characters, and there would obviously be a filter (stronger than the regular general chat filter possibly?).
You could even make it have a certain set of messages you can choose from and you can fill in names or numbers by selection, but this would require a special menu and would give away the presence of the Pythoness if anyone recognized the messages. though, most coven roles don't act without being noticed anyways. one way to avoid this though would be to randomize whatever messages the pythoness can select from so that every time someone plays the pythoness and uses a preset message, some people may recognize the message, and some may have never seen it before.

Though not having a free bar to type a message would void the ability to put out a false investigative result or false psychic's vision through the Doppelganger to convince the town to lynch someone.

I'm not sure if this will matter but take into account that The Necromonicon isn't accessible until night 3, and will in most cases take longer than that to get to the pythoness depending on how many coven members there are alive and is a Coven Leader is present. So doppelgangers will usually only be present in the last half of the game (considering most games are about 6-8 nights long)

Also, I have a question- would the Spy be able to see any interaction with the Pythoness and a Doppelganger? Obviously, they don't visit them at night but maybe it could count as a visit? or maybe if the spy bugged the doppelganger they would get a message the next day anytime the Pythoness controlls the doppelganger to talk or vote that "Your target was given an order from the Pythoness."

And if it ever comes to the point where the role is to OP in the forums a giant nerf would be to show the message that the Pythoness is whispering to the Doppelganger whenever they have them do an action.
Like "Dandelion is whispering to Bob Ross" (Dandelion being the Pythoness and Bob Ross being the Doppelganger) and seeing a vote or a message sent right after from Bob Ross might make people realize who the Pythoness is but that would somewhat of a lasrge nerf to their Necromonicon ability.
ANOTHER nerf would be for any investigation of the Doppelganger to be the result of the Pythoness or for the Consigliere to just straight up say "Your target seems to have lost their soul, they must be a Doppelganger!"
food for thought haha

I know this was a lot but I hope this helped in some way, shape, or form. :D :lol:
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Re: Pythoness (CE) [Poisoner Overhaul]

Postby MorganTheMod » Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:55 pm

bump. this role is too good to let it flop tbh :p
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Re: Pythoness (CE) [Poisoner Overhaul]

Postby Brilliand » Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:59 pm

MorganTheMod wrote:bump. this role is too good to let it flop tbh :p


You can't keep bumping this until the devs have time to add a role to the game. That's going to take months, if I'm optimistic.
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