Investigator (Town Investigative)

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Investigator (Town Investigative)

Postby DragonClaw66 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:36 am

I do not like the current investigative results; obviously, they're much better than the previous ones from three years ago, however, they are still very limiting on the claimspace of evildoers. This is my attempt to give evildoers more claim space without making the Investigator too weak due to results being too broad.

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Your target harnesses immense power. They must be a Jailor, Mayor, or Retributionist.
All three of these roles are of the Town Power alignment (in TG). They have the ability to confirm themselves instantly, making it nearly impossible for evildoers to claim them. Because of this, they are grouped together and not with any evil roles.

Your target witnesses bloodshed regularly. They must be a Veteran, Vigilante, Mafioso, or Jester.
The Mafioso has always been with these two Town Killings and I honestly see no problem with it. The Jester has been added to this result because a Mafioso exists in every game, which can throw suspicion onto them. Additionally, the framing result prevented the target from being hanged occasionally due to the existence of the Jester in the result.

Your target utilizes an unusual skill. They must be a Medium, Spy, Blackmailer, or Janitor.
The Medium and Janitor remain together because they can both possess information about a cleaned player. The Spy and Blackmailer are in here because they don't fit in any other result as well as this one.

Your target watches others closely. They must be a Doctor, Lookout, Forger, or Werewolf.
Originally, the Doctor was paired with the Serial Killer. I had no problem with this until I realized that the Werewolf, the role with the lowest win rate in the game, still only had one Town claim, so I switched the two Neutral Killings. The Forger and Lookout do not have any corresponding Town or evil role to accompany them, so they're really just thrown in here (fortunately, it does grant extra claim space for both evildoers in this result).

Your target possesses extraordinary intelligence. They must be an Investigator, Consigliere, or Witch.
It's pretty self-explanatory; all roles here can determine the (possible) role(s) of their targets.

Your target waits for the perfect moment to strike. They must be a Sheriff, Executioner, or Serial Killer.
There aren't enough roles in the classic game to add another Town to this result, but it's not the worst. The Executioner still has the most reliable Town Investigative claim as does the Serial Killer.

Your target distracts others constantly. They must be an Escort, Transporter, or Consort.
The two role blockers are together for obvious reasons. The Transporter is here instead of with the other Town Powers because I don't want there to be two roles in this result.

Your target prefers to be alone. They must be a Vampire Hunter, Amnesiac, or Survivor.
None of these roles can appear in ranked, so yeah.

Your target employs unorthodox techniques. They must be a Bodyguard, Godfather, or Arsonist.
As much as I would like to add another Town role to this result, there just aren't enough classic roles. As I said for the "perfect moment to strike" result, it works, but it isn't the most desirable.

Your target wants to inflict harm on others. They must be a Disguiser, Framer, or Vampire.
The Disguiser rarely appears as its own role (unless executed by the Jailor), the Framer can throw quick suspicion onto its framed targets, and the Vampire can create new allies and doesn't need a very reliable result.
Last edited by DragonClaw66 on Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:47 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Investigator (Town Investigative)

Postby CultureOfCritique » Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:32 pm

"The Jester has been added to this result because a Mafioso exists in every game, which can throw suspicion onto them"

What about All Any and Custom?
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Re: Investigator (Town Investigative)

Postby Brilliand » Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:06 pm

CultureOfCritique wrote:"The Jester has been added to this result because a Mafioso exists in every game, which can throw suspicion onto them"

What about All Any and Custom?


Since any mafia but the Godfather can turn into a Mafioso, games without a Mafioso are really rare.

If it happens in All Any, it's the talk of the town. If it happens in Custom, the opening lobby must have been quite a battle. :p
/repick /repick /repick /repick /repick /repick /repick /repick /repick /repick /repick /repick /repick /repick /repick /repick

Games without a Mafia are common when there's a Coven, though. Where would the Coven roles fit in this list?
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Re: Investigator (Town Investigative)

Postby DragonClaw66 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:29 pm

CultureOfCritique wrote:"The Jester has been added to this result because a Mafioso exists in every game, which can throw suspicion onto them"

What about All Any and Custom?


I'm referring to ranked only.

Brilliand wrote:
CultureOfCritique wrote:"The Jester has been added to this result because a Mafioso exists in every game, which can throw suspicion onto them"

What about All Any and Custom?


Since any mafia but the Godfather can turn into a Mafioso, games without a Mafioso are really rare.

If it happens in All Any, it's the talk of the town. If it happens in Custom, the opening lobby must have been quite a battle. :p
/repick /repick /repick /repick /repick /repick /repick /repick /repick /repick /repick /repick /repick /repick /repick /repick

Games without a Mafia are common when there's a Coven, though. Where would the Coven roles fit in this list?

Because the Coven is a DLC, two seperate groups for Investigator results is plausible (they can be changed in classic, but remain the same in the expansion). Though, I do plan on adding the Coven results soon.
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What are both of your opinions on the results themselves? Any noticeable flaws or do they seem alright?
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Re: Investigator (Town Investigative)

Postby Brilliand » Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:44 pm

DragonClaw66 wrote:Because the Coven is a DLC, two seperate groups for Investigator results is plausible (they can be changed in classic, but remain the same in the expansion). Though, I do plan on adding the Coven results soon.


IMO the Classic roles that are together in Classic need to also be together in Coven. (i.e. if the Investigator confuses Bodyguard with Godfather in Classic, he needs to also confuse those two roles in Coven.)

DragonClaw66 wrote:What are both of your opinions on the results themselves? Any noticeable flaws or do they seem alright?


I don't like the Disguiser/Framer/Vampire roleset being so reliably evil. Seems like that puts the Framer himself in a really bad position. (I like the idea of sticking the Disguiser off in a corner like that, though.)

I think the Werewolf was better off being mistaken for an Executioner than having the option to claim Doctor/Lookout. The "I'm either sheriff or executioner, watch me random" play is really nice, especially on a role that sometimes turns up Innocent to the sheriff. (It would be even nicer for the Arsonist, though. Maybe put the Arsonist there?)

I like the idea of putting Witch with Investigator. Investigator is a favorite Witch claim anyway, much better than Lookout.

IMO the Retributionist shouldn't be so easy to confirm. How about swapping it with Transporter? That way it can at least plausibly be accused of being Consort.
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Re: Investigator (Town Investigative)

Postby DragonClaw66 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:36 pm

Brilliand wrote:
DragonClaw66 wrote:Because the Coven is a DLC, two seperate groups for Investigator results is plausible (they can be changed in classic, but remain the same in the expansion). Though, I do plan on adding the Coven results soon.

IMO the Classic roles that are together in Classic need to also be together in Coven. (i.e. if the Investigator confuses Bodyguard with Godfather in Classic, he needs to also confuse those two roles in Coven.)


I don't really see that as necessary. Both classic and the expansion are different, just because one has a specific set of results, that doesn't mean that the other is required to have the same ones just with the others thrown in; that's what has made the current expansion results so unbalanced.

Brilliand wrote:
DragonClaw66 wrote:What are both of your opinions on the results themselves? Any noticeable flaws or do they seem alright?

I don't like the Disguiser/Framer/Vampire roleset being so reliably evil. Seems like that puts the Framer himself in a really bad position. (I like the idea of sticking the Disguiser off in a corner like that, though.)

I think the Werewolf was better off being mistaken for an Executioner than having the option to claim Doctor/Lookout. The "I'm either sheriff or executioner, watch me random" play is really nice, especially on a role that sometimes turns up Innocent to the sheriff. (It would be even nicer for the Arsonist, though. Maybe put the Arsonist there?)

I like the idea of putting Witch with Investigator. Investigator is a favorite Witch claim anyway, much better than Lookout.

IMO the Retributionist shouldn't be so easy to confirm. How about swapping it with Transporter? That way it can at least plausibly be accused of being Consort.


The purpose of the framed result is to throw suspicion on the target that has those results. Putting the Framer in that result without the Jester does so.

If a Sheriff claim fails to successfully accuse an actual evildoer, chances are they will be executed by the Jailor on that night or hanged by the Town on the following day. Because of the Serial Killer's ability to kill so consistently, it has the chance to eliminate the Investigator before actually being investigated. The Werewolf lacks that quality and instead gains the ability to claim two different Town roles.

The Retributionist is already easy to confirm; you simply need to use your ability on the second night and everyone knows who you are because the result of it is announced during the day. The Transporter's ability happens at night and is harder to confirm because of that.

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It turns out that balancing the expansion results is much more difficult than I expected. Honestly, I should've guessed that; after all, there are only six Coven roles in the game, which makes it very difficult to group everything fairly. Consider this (the classic results) to be the only thing that will appear on the thread for now.
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Re: Investigator (Town Investigative)

Postby blunket » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:50 pm

DragonClaw66 wrote:The Retributionist is already easy to confirm; you simply need to use your ability on the second night and everyone knows who you are because the result of it is announced during the day.


On the contrary, Retributionist is a very nice claim for janitors. Especially when mafia found the retrib (consig, witch's help, or otherwise), the janitor can claim ret if they're attentive.

Then again, that's pretty rare, so I see what you mean.
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Re: Investigator (Town Investigative)

Postby Televizyon1234 » Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:48 am

will
n-1 invest
n-2
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Re: Investigator (Town Investigative)

Postby DragonClaw66 » Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:40 pm

Televizyon1234 wrote:will
n-1 invest
n-2

I have no idea what to do with this information.
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Re: Investigator (Town Investigative)

Postby JustSomeOtherGuy » Sat Jul 06, 2019 6:27 pm

I really like these, however as you did say yourself - Transporter doesn't really fit there.

I wouldn't move it to the "Confirmed Town" section however - Hypnotist can fake Transporter somewhat reliably. (I know this is intended for Classic, but they share results.)

I don't really have a solution for that, however I would propose that Blackmailer or Janitor take its place in that result. Perhaps with the flavour text of "Your target is more than they seem." or "Your target has some dirty secrets." - A wordplay for the Janitor, or self-awareness for the Blackmailer. The first would work better as "X behind closed doors" - but I couldn't find a way to work with that.

I realise my feedback here is pretty lackluster, but that's just what I would add change personally - The Transporter is an odd case, especially with the Hypnotist.

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May work better as a NC Double Agent that also has abilities against Town but must double-cross both the evils AND town, but the goal may be too hard.

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I usually play as anything, now.
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Re: Investigator (Town Investigative)

Postby SantanaTheSmall » Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:58 am

This looks pretty well thought out. It would relieve headaches for evil roles.
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