Godfather buff: Jail resistance

[Brilliand]

As a buff to the Godfather, I suggest allowing the Godfather to decline to show up for jail when the Jailor attempts to jail him.

The simplest way to implement this would be "if the Jailor selects the Godfather when no Mafioso exists, the jail attempt fails", so let's call that my proposal.

From a realism standpoint, I've always thought it was odd that anyone the Jailor selected would meekly walk into the jailhouse to be interrogated - certain evils (particularly those with night immunity) should be able to resist arrest, at the cost of clearly outing themselves as a criminal.

[sunbird1002]

"if the Jailor selects the Godfather when no Mafioso exists, the jail attempt fails"

But this gives the Godfather no choice at all... Also, how do you implement it? As being jailed is a start of day action, there is no way for the Godfather to choose to decline jail except if there a sun ability specifically made for it...

Currently, this is at best neutral. In smaller amounts, sure, this is a buff, but in larger games, perhaps the godfather outing is not... well, wanted.

[noveiia]

The jailor would know who the Godfather was then because the jailing wouldn’t work...

[Brilliand]

But this gives the Godfather no choice at all... Also, how do you implement it? As being jailed is a start of day action, there is no way for the Godfather to choose to decline jail except if there a sun ability specifically made for it...

Giving the Godfather a sun ability to resist jail would have more desirable effects on the town vs. Mafia dynamic, but like you said, it would be somewhat awkward to implement (creating a new seldom-used sun ability).

Hence I went with writing a rule that automatically uses the Godfather's ability at the time when he's most likely to want to use it, instead of giving him an actual choice in the matter. That way, no sun ability is needed.

Currently, this is at best neutral. In smaller amounts, sure, this is a buff, but in larger games, perhaps the godfather outing is not... well, wanted.

When the Godfather has no Mafioso, having the Godfather jailed is a pretty terrible situation for the Mafia. It results in "no mafia kills", which tends to out the Godfather anyway... then if the Jailor is particularly clever, he might just hold the Godfather hostage while the Town hunts down the other Mafia.

This idea would give the Godfather the chance to perform one more kill before he dies, then force the town to spend a lynch on him instead of a Jailor execute - a net gain for the Mafia.

[TheRealChickenPatty]

Jailor don't just walk em to the jailhouse.

First,he waits for them to arrive home.

Then,right as they are about to walk in,he pounces,blindfolding him and dragging him to the jailhouse.

The jailee(?) wakes up,in a dark cell,ready for interrogation.

Jailor plays no games,yall

[Brilliand]

Jailor don't just walk em to the jailhouse.

First,he waits for them to arrive home.

Then,right as they are about to walk in,he pounces,blindfolding him and dragging him to the jailhouse.

The jailee(?) wakes up,in a dark cell,ready for interrogation.

Jailor plays no games,yall

Basic defense should totally prevent that.

[TheRealChickenPatty]

Basic defense should totally prevent that.

Then are you saying that since he has basic defense that he should be able to resist?
That doesn't make much sense,since that would mean
.the WW
.Arsonist
.SK
.Witch(?)
. and the Executioner

should be able to just waltz from the jailor.

Which makes no sense,when you think about it.
Then again,most of this game doesn't make much sense,so perhaps this would(barely)work.

[Mikemk]

Jailor don't just walk em to the jailhouse.

First,he waits for them to arrive home.

Then,right as they are about to walk in,he pounces,blindfolding him and dragging him to the jailhouse.

The jailee(?) wakes up,in a dark cell,ready for interrogation.

Jailor plays no games,yall

Basic defense should totally prevent that.

Jailor's attack is unstoppable.

[Brilliand]

Jailor don't just walk em to the jailhouse.

First,he waits for them to arrive home.

Then,right as they are about to walk in,he pounces,blindfolding him and dragging him to the jailhouse.

The jailee(?) wakes up,in a dark cell,ready for interrogation.

Jailor plays no games,yall

Basic defense should totally prevent that.

Jailor's attack is unstoppable.

Real-life jailers are unstoppable when trying to execute their prisoner, but not when trying to jail them in the first place.

[Mikemk]

Well Town of Salem doesn't have a visiting power mechanic.
Scratch that, it has roleblocking & jailing

[CultureOfCritique]

You mentioned it would be a choice for the godfather to show up for jail or not. How would that work? Would it prompt the GF before the night starts? If so, every player has to wait for the GF to pick before the night phase starts, which would be a dead giveaway to the entire town that a GF has been prompted. It would also clue the town to the existence of a GF in a mode like All Any or custom.

The only way I could see getting around this would be to give the GF a switch that they can toggle ahead of time during the day.

[Brilliand]

You mentioned it would be a choice for the godfather to show up for jail or not. How would that work? Would it prompt the GF before the night starts? If so, every player has to wait for the GF to pick before the night phase starts, which would be a dead giveaway to the entire town that a GF has been prompted. It would also clue the town to the existence of a GF in a mode like All Any or custom.

The only way I could see getting around this would be to give the GF a switch that they can toggle ahead of time during the day.

That would work. What I actually settled on, though, was having the game automatically decide when it's likely to be helpful, and use it then... without giving the Godfather an actual choice.

The "decline jail" ability is most likely to be helpful when the Godfather has no Mafioso to fall back on.

[Mikemk]

I think a better idea is allow the GF to be jailed, but without blocking his night action.

[Brilliand]

I think a better idea is allow the GF to be jailed, but without blocking his night action.

I can't get past how completely unrealistic this is.

[Mikemk]

I think a better idea is allow the GF to be jailed, but without blocking his night action.

I can't get past how completely unrealistic this is.

Works in real life

[Brilliand]

I think a better idea is allow the GF to be jailed, but without blocking his night action.

I can't get past how completely unrealistic this is.

Works in real life

You can't go out and kill someone from jail. Give orders from jail, yes, but not perform the kill.

[woahah]

I think a better idea is allow the GF to be jailed, but without blocking his night action.

I can't get past how completely unrealistic this is.

Works in real life

You can't go out and kill someone from jail. Give orders from jail, yes, but not perform the kill.

hi may i introduce you to tactical mafia kills

[Brilliand]

I think a better idea is allow the GF to be jailed, but without blocking his night action.

I can't get past how completely unrealistic this is.

Works in real life

You can't go out and kill someone from jail. Give orders from jail, yes, but not perform the kill.

hi may i introduce you to tactical mafia kills

Tactical mafia kills are a great idea!

But a tactical mafia kill isn't the Godfather acting from jail. It's the rest of the mafia doing what they need to do while the Godfather can't do anything.

[TheRealChickenPatty]

Perhaps,instead of GF being able to waltz out of jail,he should be able to command a mafia member who is not a killing role to temporarily act as a Mafioso.
Perhaps it should be given a new name when appointed until being reverted.

It can be chosen during the day only.

[Brilliand]

Night ability when jailed: Pick a mafia member. That mafia member functions as a Mafioso for that night only.

Wouldn't be too bad.

[TheRealChickenPatty]

It makes more sense than GF running away from the jailor lul.
Also can help throw suspicion from GF.

[DragonClaw66]

Night ability when jailed: Pick a mafia member. That mafia member functions as a Mafioso for that night only.

Wouldn't be too bad.

Implementing Tactical Mafia is way more effective than that.

In case you are unaware, Tactical Mafia refers to all faction members having their own unique ability but having the choice to forfeit the use of it during the night to perform the factional kill. Tactical Mafia nerfs the ability of the Jailor to roleblock evildoers while maintaining most of the power of the Escort.

Edit: It seems like woahah already hinted at Tactical Mafia... still, it solves the problem of the Mafia losing their killing power due to the Jailor.

[TheRealChickenPatty]

In case you are unaware,Tactical Mafia refers to all faction members having their own unique ability but having the choice to forfeit the use of it during the night to perform the factional kill.Tactical Mafia nerfs the ability of the Jailor to roleblock evildoers while maintaining most of the power of the Escort.

Now that I re-think it,this may be too powerful.Maybe for this change,if the Godfather is killed,the Mafioso shouldn't be promoted to new GF.To balance it out.Not saying this rework isn't a good idea,just that it would throw balance off slightly.

Also,no;This does not preserve the integrity of the Escortand its functions.It no longer can really play a critical role in stopping mafia kills when there are more than 2 mafia members who are now able to kill rather than use their abilities at night.

Now,the escort seems much more like a sacrificial lamb for the SK and WW,and can only reliably block the Arsonist.
So in my view and opinion,Escortwould only really a reliable counter to the Arsonist should this change go through.

Thus,I believe that the GF should not be able to assign a factional killer when it's mafioso is still alive.
Mafioso can assign a killer when their GF dies.However,the choice of the new killer should only be choose able during the day.Should the new killer and the Mafioso be role blocked,mafia will not kill.

Alt killer should also have a choice in performing the kill as to not risk exposing themselves.

TL;DR:
GF cannot pick faction killer when Mafioso is alive.
Mafioso will not be promoted to GF.
Mafioso can pick their faction killer.
Faction killer can choose to kill or perform their unique ability.

[TheRealChickenPatty]

Forgot to add this.

DragonClaw66,while your rework does make mafia more effective,it makes them too effective.It means mafia is almost impossible to stop from killing.

For that reason,having only one faction killer would provide mafia the cover they need for their jailed/role blocked comrade,while also not making mafia an unstoppable beast and removing the Escorts whole purpose.

[Brilliand]

I request that you keep the discussion of tactical mafia kills out of this thread. It should have its own thread somewhere.