The Saboteur (Disguiser + Framer Merger)

Suggest new roles or changes to current roles for the game here.

The Saboteur (Disguiser + Framer Merger)

Postby scarfves » Fri Dec 09, 2022 10:23 am

Saboteur


Summary: You are a skill thespian that works in the art of deceiving others.


Stats:
Attack: None
Defense: None
Priority: 2

Alignment: Mafia Deception

Goal: Kill anyone that will not submit to the Mafia.

Abilities: Choose a person (Target α) and alter their perceived identity to be of another person (Target β) to fool all investigative actions for the night.

Attributes:
- All references and pointer's to Target α's name for investigative feedback purposes will instead be replaced by Target β's name. (This affects the Lookout's target recorded visitors, Psychic's vision targets, Tracker's target recorded visit, and Spy evil's targets.)
- All references and pointer's to Target α's role for investigative feedback purposes will instead be replaced by Target β's role. (This affects the Investigator's target results, Sheriff's target results, Spy 'who-is-evil' visits, and Potion Master's reveal potion.)
- Any Mafia investigative action will not be fooled by this. (This only affects the Consigilere so far.)
- You may only select a Godfather or Mafioso as Target α three times total. This count is global per each Saboteur.



Win Conditions:
- Wins with: Mafia
- Wins with: Witch
- Wins with: Survivor
- Wins with: Guardian Angel
- Wins with: Pirate
- Must Kill: Town
- Must Kill: Serial Killer
- Must Kill: Werewolf
- Must Kill: Arsonist
- Must Kill: Coven
- Must Kill: Juggernaut
- Must Kill: Vampire
- Must Kill: Plaguebearer
- Must Kill: Pestilence

Investigative Results:
- Sheriff: Your target is suspicious or framed!
- Investigator: Your target is covered in blood. They must be a Doctor, Saboteur, Serial Killer, or Potion Master.
- Consigilere: Your target works to fool and bedazzle by changing the appearances of others. They must be a Saboteur.



The Saboteur is I think the best compromise between a Disguiser and Framer. Plain and simple. The Disguiser and Framer's current shortcomings come due to incompatibility with most other Town Investigative roles, and both share a similar identity of changing results to benefit the Mafia. Here it's kept to the same idea, you can either frame another person to appear to be what they are not, or disguise one of your own to avoid pondering eyes. Both roles are relatively weak and situational enough that merging them into one I think grants the best opportunity for good plays to come out of this role and feel like you are actually contributing to the downfall of the Town. The limitation that you may only select a Godfather or Mafioso as Target α three times total is so the ability doesn't creep on being a braindead pocket ability to avoid a smart play for certain roles like the Lookout. I think it's a simple enough role that easy to understand and doesn't creep on too many intruding game design (or programming) elements.



In the comments, thoughts?
Last edited by scarfves on Thu Dec 15, 2022 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
yeah, i go by qry on discord; shut up!
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treasured ideas:
Gunslinger
Mafioso Removal + Godfather Rework
Move Plaguebearer from Neutral Chaos to Neutral Killing
Survivor Change
Saboteur
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Re: The Saboteur (Disguiser + Framer Merger)

Postby DragoWhooves » Fri Dec 09, 2022 12:07 pm

+Support
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Re: The Saboteur (Disguiser + Framer Merger)

Postby WaveAqualei » Sun Dec 11, 2022 11:31 pm

I think this is what Disguiser should've been. I've had this idea for awhile but I know for sure that BMG won't remove two roles in exchange for one. Nice idea, but I don't see it happening in the game sadly.
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Re: The Saboteur (Disguiser + Framer Merger)

Postby DragoWhooves » Mon Dec 12, 2022 12:07 pm

WaveAqualei wrote:I think this is what Disguiser should've been. I've had this idea for awhile but I know for sure that BMG won't remove two roles in exchange for one. Nice idea, but I don't see it happening in the game sadly.

They could add a new Mafia role at the same time to balance it out
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Re: The Saboteur (Disguiser + Framer Merger)

Postby WaveAqualei » Tue Dec 13, 2022 5:51 pm

DragoWhooves wrote:
WaveAqualei wrote:I think this is what Disguiser should've been. I've had this idea for awhile but I know for sure that BMG won't remove two roles in exchange for one. Nice idea, but I don't see it happening in the game sadly.

They could add a new Mafia role at the same time to balance it out

They'd have to make Framer or Disguiser be this role, then make whatever role gets left out into a new concept entirely. It's doable, but pretty strange.
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Re: The Saboteur (Disguiser + Framer Merger)

Postby scarfves » Thu Dec 15, 2022 11:06 am

WaveAqualei wrote:
DragoWhooves wrote:
WaveAqualei wrote:I think this is what Disguiser should've been. I've had this idea for awhile but I know for sure that BMG won't remove two roles in exchange for one. Nice idea, but I don't see it happening in the game sadly.

They could add a new Mafia role at the same time to balance it out

They'd have to make Framer or Disguiser be this role, then make whatever role gets left out into a new concept entirely. It's doable, but pretty strange.

I'm hopeful. I guess the Framer achievements (or w/e they could've been) and scrolls will be merged with the Disguiser which then becomes this role. I don't see anything too obtuse with that if it's for the sake of gameplay balance.
yeah, i go by qry on discord; shut up!
18 yr old hottie who got a computer from uni and will abuse it to hearts content hehehehe!


treasured ideas:
Gunslinger
Mafioso Removal + Godfather Rework
Move Plaguebearer from Neutral Chaos to Neutral Killing
Survivor Change
Saboteur
User avatar
scarfves
Executioner
Executioner
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:45 pm
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Re: The Saboteur (Disguiser + Framer Merger)

Postby WaveAqualei » Thu Dec 15, 2022 9:03 pm

scarfves wrote:
WaveAqualei wrote:
DragoWhooves wrote:
WaveAqualei wrote:I think this is what Disguiser should've been. I've had this idea for awhile but I know for sure that BMG won't remove two roles in exchange for one. Nice idea, but I don't see it happening in the game sadly.

They could add a new Mafia role at the same time to balance it out

They'd have to make Framer or Disguiser be this role, then make whatever role gets left out into a new concept entirely. It's doable, but pretty strange.

I'm hopeful. I guess the Framer achievements (or w/e they could've been) and scrolls will be merged with the Disguiser which then becomes this role. I don't see anything too obtuse with that if it's for the sake of gameplay balance.

I wouldn't bet on it happening. Role Idea Mods in the past have suggested several Framer Reworks in 2018 and the best we got was Frames lasting until the night they fool a player.
I know for sure that BMG will not remove a role without a replacement though.
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Re: The Saboteur (Disguiser + Framer Merger)

Postby scarfves » Fri Dec 16, 2022 1:49 pm

WaveAqualei wrote:
scarfves wrote:
WaveAqualei wrote:
DragoWhooves wrote:
WaveAqualei wrote:I think this is what Disguiser should've been. I've had this idea for awhile but I know for sure that BMG won't remove two roles in exchange for one. Nice idea, but I don't see it happening in the game sadly.

They could add a new Mafia role at the same time to balance it out

They'd have to make Framer or Disguiser be this role, then make whatever role gets left out into a new concept entirely. It's doable, but pretty strange.

I'm hopeful. I guess the Framer achievements (or w/e they could've been) and scrolls will be merged with the Disguiser which then becomes this role. I don't see anything too obtuse with that if it's for the sake of gameplay balance.

I wouldn't bet on it happening. Role Idea Mods in the past have suggested several Framer Reworks in 2018 and the best we got was Frames lasting until the night they fool a player.
I know for sure that BMG will not remove a role without a replacement though.

I will let this forum be the reason I believe in pure-hearted kind souls and the indomitable human spirit for change and progression. Nothing will take that away from me.
yeah, i go by qry on discord; shut up!
18 yr old hottie who got a computer from uni and will abuse it to hearts content hehehehe!


treasured ideas:
Gunslinger
Mafioso Removal + Godfather Rework
Move Plaguebearer from Neutral Chaos to Neutral Killing
Survivor Change
Saboteur
User avatar
scarfves
Executioner
Executioner
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:45 pm
Location: kittieskittieskittieskittieskitty

Re: The Saboteur (Disguiser + Framer Merger)

Postby WaveAqualei » Fri Dec 16, 2022 2:09 pm

scarfves wrote:
WaveAqualei wrote:I wouldn't bet on it happening. Role Idea Mods in the past have suggested several Framer Reworks in 2018 and the best we got was Frames lasting until the night they fool a player.
I know for sure that BMG will not remove a role without a replacement though.

I will let this forum be the reason I believe in pure-hearted kind souls and the indomitable human spirit for change and progression. Nothing will take that away from me.

Unfortunately you'll meet several people who are quick to shoot ideas down (me being one of them, but I try to be as light-hearted as possible).
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Re: The Saboteur (Disguiser + Framer Merger)

Postby scarfves » Sun Jan 01, 2023 10:59 pm

It just came to my mind maybe both the Disguiser and Framer can use the same mechanics, just one is limited to having Mafia Target A's, while the other is limited to Mafia Target B's, perhaps with some buff to both due to the lack of versatility.
yeah, i go by qry on discord; shut up!
18 yr old hottie who got a computer from uni and will abuse it to hearts content hehehehe!


treasured ideas:
Gunslinger
Mafioso Removal + Godfather Rework
Move Plaguebearer from Neutral Chaos to Neutral Killing
Survivor Change
Saboteur
User avatar
scarfves
Executioner
Executioner
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:45 pm
Location: kittieskittieskittieskittieskitty


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