The Shapeshifter (Neutral Chaos)(V 1.1)

Suggest new roles or changes to current roles for the game here.

Opinion on the Current Shapeshifter?

A Litte Too Strong
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Fine as it is.
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A Litte Weak.
1
50%
Needs a Buff.
0
No votes
Requires a Nerf.
0
No votes
Change it slightly.
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No votes
Needs a Big Rework.
1
50%
Bad Idea in General.
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Good Idea, Bad Role.
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1.0 Seemed Better
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Total votes : 2

The Shapeshifter (Neutral Chaos)(V 1.1)

Postby FroggyMaybe » Wed Oct 05, 2022 5:47 am

The Shapeshifter - Neutral Chaos

Summary: "You are a Master of Disguise, attempting to fit in with the Town, even after whatsomany rejections."

Statistics

Attack: Powerful
Defence: None
Unique: Yes
Priority: High

Other
-Exclusive to the Coven Expansion.
-Cannot be the target of a Guardian Angel.

Abilities
- On the First Night, You may Shapeshift into a Player, dealing a powerful attack.

Attributes
-You will steal your Target's Ability and Attributes.
-You will steal your target's ATK/DEF stats.
-You will not steal Faction-Based and Suicidal Attributes.
-You will retain your Role and Faction
-Dependant on your Target's Role, Your Win Condition will change
-Your Target's role will not be shown to the town.

Investigative Results
Investigator: "Your Target Could be a Survivor,AmnesiacVampire Hunter,Medusa,Psychic, or Shapeshifter [Colour TBD.]
Sherrif: "You could not find edvidence of any wrongdoing. Your target seems innocent."
Consigliere: "Your Target is a Master of Disguise, yet not really knowing their place. They must be a Shapeshifter!"

Goal
"Dependant on your Target's role, your Win Condition Changes."
If your target was a Townie,a member of the Mafia Coven or a Vampire: "Eliminate the [Target Faction] at all Costs"*
If your target was a Neutral Killing Role: "Eliminate every other faction and stay alive until the end."
If your target was a Neutral Benign,Neutral Evil,a Mayor or a Pirate :"Survive to see another Neutral Role win the game."
If you forgot to Shapeshift or were Roleblocked on the First Night: "Survive until the end of the game."

Victory Conditions
-If your Target was a Townie , Prevent the Town from winning at all costs. You win with everyone else.
-If your target was a member of the Mafia , Prevent the Mafia from winning at any costs.You win with everyone else.
-If your target was a member of the Coven , Prevent the Coven from winning at all costs. You win with everyone else.
-If your target was a Vampire, prevent the Vampires from winning at all costs. You win with everyone else.
-If your target was a Neutral Killing , you win with no player of any faction alive.
-If your target was a Neutral Benign,Neutral Evil,Mayor, or a Pirate : Survive, and have any other surviving Neutral Role win the game with you. You lose if no alive neutrals have won.
-If you forgot to Shapeshift or were Roleblocked on the First Night: Survive until the end of the game. You win with everyone. (Vestless Surv, Essentially).

Notifications
Attacking Notifications (SS)
- You have decided to shapeshift into [X]tonight. [First Night Ability]
- If your Target's role can kill, the Attack notification remains the same for the player

Attacking Notifications (TGT)
- You were attacked by a Shapeshifter. (Any Night, Any Attack from the SS)

Public Notifications
-They were attacked by a Shapeshifter. We could not determine their role (as all their belongings were stolen). (Night one SS kill)
-They were attacked by a Shapeshifter. [X]'s Role was [Role]. (Any other SS attack)

Role Information Notification (SS)
- You Secretly know that [X]'s role was [Role].

WinCon Switch Notifications (SS)
- "Your Target was a member of the Town. Searching their belongings, you notice high end corruption in the Government, Unfairness, and a lot of other crimes hidden away.
You have decided to end the Town, Whatever it may take."
-"Your Target was a Member of the Mafia. Searching their belongings, you notice high end secrets such as responsibility for Corruption, and murders of thousands of innocent that were covered up easily. Youve decided to take out justice and end the Criminal Organisation,once and for all."
-"Your Target was a Member of the Coven. Searching their Belongings, you find intel on Hexes, Extremely Painful Poison, and Spells of torture and unwanted Controlling.
Realizing how big of a thing this may be to you and others, you choose to Take our the Coven to prevent Suffering, whatever it may take."
-"Your Target was a Vampire. Searching their belongings, you find intel on the Vampire's Curse aswell as a lot of other Strange and Painful activities.
Feeling Really Bad, you decide to Hunt down the Vampires and free them from the Curse and Pain of their Life, whatever it may take."
-"Your Target Was a [X Neutralkilling]. Searching their belongings, you notice blackmailing and giant hunts from others, all with their own motives. After awhile, you Snap.
You refuse to ever let organized supression happen again. You will drive this place into Anarchy, and murder anyone putting their foot in your way.
-"Your Target is a [Any other Neutral/Mayor]. Searching their belongings, you find intel on their neutrality and notes on what every major known faction has done to them and others.
You decide neither of the factions are worthy to win, and choose to instead find other saviors to free you from this hellhole called salem.
-"You forgot to shapeshift into someone. Overthinking your plan, you backtrack and see what stupid reasoning really turned you into this. Seeing it now,you find your best bet being to enforce neutrality and don't take a side until this war is over.

Mechanics
The Shapeshifter can deal a powerful attack to a player on the first night, and the first night only. Their target's role will only be revealed to them, and dependant on it, they change their winconditions. The Shapeshifter takes over their target's ability aswell as most of their attributes, except for suicidal [Jester,Vigilante,Boyguard] or faction-Based ones
[Mafia Promotion ,Executioner's Target Vampire Convert, Jailor's Execute-Loss]. They retain their Original Role and Alignment during the entire game, though *

Additional Information(*)
I. Plaguebearer is listed as a Neutral Killing role here, because pest is an NK.
II. You cannot shapeshift into the Mayor, as revealing yourself with its ability Will not only Probably break the game, but revealing yourself to the town as a guaranteed evil is also plain Stupid.
III. The Shapeshifter also takes over their target's ATK/DEF Stats.

Lore
Making lore for a role as complicated as this won't work for now, sadly. I may update this later though.


Update Log
V 1.1 - Slight Buff
+ Detection Immunity
+ Changed NK WinCon "Kill everyone in the game" => KIll everyone in any faction.
Last edited by FroggyMaybe on Thu Oct 06, 2022 4:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Shapeshifter (Neutral Chaos)

Postby Poryg » Wed Oct 05, 2022 8:27 pm

There are a couple of problems I see with the role.

- Its shapeshifter ability works only on N1. Unlike an amne, you cannot choose what benefits you. Lack of rb immunity gets you screwed very easily in case of rb or jail. Plus if you get witched, you don't even have the roulette choice in which side you join. As a shapeshifter you do have an option to pick sides thanks to the powerful attack, however you're also extremely vulnerable and a very safe lynch under all circumstances.

- Its shapeshifter ability delivers a powerful attack. It's not covered what happens when the character gets healed.

- Its neutral conditions suck. As NK you're killing everybody while any other NK role wins at least with survs. Killing any other neutral or mayor makes you autolose if there are no neutrals left. Even exe is not this bad when circumstances out of their control causes their win condition to be void. And jester wants to get lynched, so how is he supposed to win while surviving?

- Killing an amne creates ruling contradictions. You can remember any dead and adopt their win condition, however in the meantime you're still supposed to let some neutrals survive.

- Imo this shapeshifter should have at least some immunity. If nothing else, then detection immunity 100%. Also, what's the point of shapeshifting into a role when it doesn't change invest results?
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Re: The Shapeshifter (Neutral Chaos)

Postby FroggyMaybe » Thu Oct 06, 2022 4:40 am

Poryg wrote:There are a couple of problems I see with the role.

- Its shapeshifter ability works only on N1. Unlike an amne, you cannot choose what benefits you. Lack of rb immunity gets you screwed very easily in case of rb or jail. Plus if you get witched, you don't even have the roulette choice in which side you join. As a shapeshifter you do have an option to pick sides thanks to the powerful attack, however you're also extremely vulnerable and a very safe lynch under all circumstances.

- Its shapeshifter ability delivers a powerful attack. It's not covered what happens when the character gets healed.
Healing Roles Grant Powerful Defence, meaning the target stays alive and it acts like you didnt attack.

- Its neutral conditions suck. As NK you're killing everybody while any other NK role wins at least with survs. Killing any other neutral or mayor makes you autolose if there are no neutrals left. Even exe is not this bad when circumstances out of their control causes their win condition to be void. And jester wants to get lynched, so how is he supposed to win while surviving?
Changed it. But what do you want, a budget SK?
Shifting Removes Suicidal Abilities, such as jester's lynch one. The goal isnt to "Get lynched" anymore. I know this deems a lot of roles useless, but thats the exact reason why NE is such a budget win condition.
- Killing an amne creates ruling contradictions. You can remember any dead and adopt their win condition, however in the meantime you're still supposed to let some neutrals survive.
I shouldve Pointed that out better. Faction Based Attributed/Abilities dont get adopted. This includes amne's remember ability.

- Imo this shapeshifter should have at least some immunity. If nothing else, then detection immunity 100%. Also, what's the point of shapeshifting into a role when it doesn't change invest results?

It keeps its original role and alignment, why change Inv results?
I do find detection immunity important, and it does need a buff. Granted, easier NK win condition aswell as Detection immunity.
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Re: The Shapeshifter (Neutral Chaos)(V 1.1)

Postby Poryg » Thu Oct 06, 2022 7:58 am

Changing the inv results is important. This is a role that seeks to stay alive with, more often than not, no protection whatsoever. CL finds him, he dies. Consig finds him, he dies. Vigi shoot or SK stab, he dies. Invest finds him, he's gonna find it difficult to claim. Since he shares invest results with surv, in a shapeshifter game any result that is surv/amne/vh/dusa/psy and not claiming town role will warrant a pre-emptive lynch, because invest no longer proves survs. And psy claims are weak.
And if he gets outed? Town has no reason to trust him. Neutrals have no reason to trust him. There's no way for him to prove himself. If he kills a coven or maf, that faction will know that there's a shapeshifter trying to hunt them down and they will search for them. And if he kills a neutral, his allies are neutrals he cannot confirm with and everybody else is against him. If he kills town, evils don't need to worry about him. However, proving to them that he didn't kill a neutral without making himself a target is more difficult.



And yes, I know that shifting removes suicidal abilities. But that wasn't my point.I was talking about shapeshifter's win condition when you kill pirate, mayor, NE or NB.

According to

-If your target was a Neutral Benign,Neutral Evil,Mayor, or a Pirate : Survive, and have any other surviving Neutral Role win the game with you. You lose if no alive neutrals have won.


shapeshifter has to ensure some other neutrals win. In a game with very few neutrals this gets very difficult. If you shapeshift into the only neutral, you automatically lose, which already sucks. And even when there are some neutrals, it's not guaranteed you have any chance to win. Because you have to make sure they not only win, but also survive until the end.
Jester wants to get lynched. And amne stops being neutral when he remembers a faction role. GA can win even from beyond the grave. Exe and pirate don't need to stay alive once they fulfill their win conditions. Only survivors or NKs have to survive until the end. And you first have to find them. With no way to confirm yourself to them or them to you.

And what can you do to ensure you even survive, let alone win? In 5 out of 7 cases you have no protection. In 5 out of 7 cases you can't attack. And if you do attack, pray that you don't kill a neutral, because both pirate (obtained from pirate) and shapeshifter (retained when killing a mayor) have powerful attack. What's even worse, if you shapeshift into an amne or jest, you're a vestless survivor with a weak claim. If you shapeshift into a GA, not sure how that's gonna work.

Every neutral role has a win condition that, if it's taken away from them through means beyond their control, changes. GA becomes surv who just needs to survive. And exe becomes jest. Any unique NK, even if they die, will win if at least one NK of the same faction survives. So doesn't matter if you kill 2 SKs if there's one more.
But shapeshifter not only needs to survive... He also needs to ensure some other neutral survives and wins. When he has no way of making sure about it. There is no alternative win condition.
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