Horsemen (New Faction!!!)

Suggest new roles or changes to current roles for the game here.

Horsemen (New Faction!!!)

Postby TheTraitorofSalem » Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:44 am

PLEASE NOTE THIS IS A WIP!

Faction Name:
The Horsemen of the Apocalypses

Summary
A Demonic faction based on the four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. Each Horseman will have a number of followers from a single dedicated Chosen warrior to various Acolytes (minions, demons). Each Horseman will have their own goal to achieve before they become one of the Apocalypses.

War! creates deceit and mistrust among friends and family. War wants men to turn among each other. War has the ability to control the mind of another Town member to attempt to turn him against his fellow men. When War has successfully gotten enough town players to kill each other, either by lynching or kills at night, then a war will begin!!! War will be able to convert Town members against their own brothers and sisters!

Important Information:
-All roles are UNIQUE
-Faction is designed as a standalone faction against town (4v11)
-All Horsemen have Basic Defense and Invincible defense once they become of the Apocalypse
-Chosen all have 1 kill, plus an extra kill when their Leader becomes a Horsemen of the Apocalypse
-Chosen has a special ability based on what Horseman they're dedicated to (will be highlighted)
-Chosen will become their dedicated Horseman, if their horseman leaves or dies prior to becoming that of the Apocalypse.
-Abilities that the Horsemen receive once they become a Horsemen of the Apocalypse will be highlighted
-Pestilence has no changes to the role expect fellow Horsemen will not be able to gain or spread the Plague
-I have not created pre horsemen names for this faction yet, any ideas would be appreciated
-Name changes for the Acolytes appreciated

Rolelists
Spoiler: Horsemen
Death
War
Famine
Pestilence
Chosen
Acolytes
(Minions/Demons of the Horsemen)
Succubus
Devourer
Unknown Acolyte
Unknown Acolyte
Unknown Acolyte
Unknown Acolyte
Basic Acolyte


Priest
Vendor (Smith)
Unknown Townie
Unknown Townie


Rolelist
Random Horsemen
Chosen
Random Acolyte
Random Acolyte
Town Investigative
Town Investigative
Town Protective
Town Protective
Town Killing
Town Support
Town Support
Town Random
Town Random
Town Random
Town Random


Role Name:Death

Abilities:
-You may choose to mark a player for Death each night
-Alternatively, you may attack a player who has been marked for Death
-You may use your wild beast to attack a player each night.

Attributes:
-When 3 marked players have been killed, you will become Death Horseman of the Apocalypse
-A wild beast will be summoned upon your progression to one of the Apocalypses

Notifications:

Special Attributes:
-You may use your wild beast from among the grave

Additional Information:
-Death cannot attack players who have not been Marked for Death. So Night1 he marks Player 7, Night 2 he can kill Player 7
-Marking a player for Death happens at the final stage of the night, if that player is killed during the night it does not count
-The wild beast functions similar to a ghoul, you will be able to individually select it and use it to attack 1 player.

Lore:

Chosen (Death)
Spoiler: Role Name: Chosen (Death)

Abilities:
-During the night you may choose to attack a player

Attributes:
-You have one kill
-Whenever a player who was marked for Death is killed, gain a kill

Notifications:

Special Attributes:
-Will replace (Death) if he dies before becoming Horseman of the Apocalypse

Additional Information:

Lore:

Role Name: War

Abilities:
-During the night you may choose to possess a player, who you will control the following day
-Covert a player to a Basic Acolyte

Attributes:
-You may only possess thrice
-You may convert twice
-You may speak and vote as your target the following day
-You will become a Horsemen of the Apocalypse when three town members are killed by other town members (either by lynching or nighttime killing)

Notifications:

Special Attributes:
-If you are lynched, your possessed target will die instead

Additional Information:

Lore:

Chosen (War)
Spoiler: Role Name: Chosen (War)

Abilities:
-During the night you may choose to attack a player
-During the night you may immolate yourself


Attributes:
-You have one kill
-While Immolated, you will deliver a Powerful attack to anyone who visits you
-You will destroy the role and will of players that you kill whilst Immolated
-You can only Immolate 2 times
-You cannot be roleblocked whilst immolated


Notifications:

Special Attributes:
-Will replace (War) if he dies before becoming Horseman of the Apocalypse

Additional Information:
-Does not have the defense like the Veteran

Lore:


Role Name: Famine

Abilities:
-During the night you may choose to burn a players grain supplies
-During the night you may choose to burn two players grain supplies

Attributes:
-Players will be aware their grain supplies have been burnt
-When you have burnt 5 players grain supplies a Famine will be unleashed across the town
-Players without any grain will die at the end of the day

Notifications:

Special Attributes:

Additional Information:
-In a game with Famine, all players will have a grain supply

Lore:

Chosen (Famine)
Spoiler: Role Name: Chosen (Famine)

Abilities:
-During the night you may choose to attack a player
-At night you pay choose to bankrupt a player

Attributes:
You have one kill
-Bankrupted players will lose all abilities and special attributes

Notifications:

Special Attributes:
-You may bankrupt a player twice

Additional Information:

Lore:


Role Name: Chosen (Pestilence)

Abilities:
-During the night you may choose to attack a player
-During the night you may confuse a plagued player and attract another plagued player

Attributes:
-You have one kill
-Confused players will be forced to visit themselves
-Attracted players will be forced to visit you
-Players will not know that they have been confused or attracted


Notifications:

Special Attributes:
-You will passively infect visitors with the plague.

Additional Information:
-Has a 2 step night action.
-Confuse 1 players and Attract another
-Confused players will visit themselves and Attracted players will visit you
-They will be unaware of this and will still receive feedback

Lore:

Role Name: Succubus

Abilities:
-You may seduce a player each night

Attributes:
-After you seduce a player they will be reliant on you
-Seduced players must be visited or visit a succubus to stay alive

Notifications:

Special Attributes:
-You may seduce thrice

Additional Information:
-Not a roleblocker
-Has an intoxication aura that makes other players reliant on it

Lore: A powerful Demon that can seduce the Town into sexual activity. Repeated sexual activity with a Succubus can cause declining healthy.

Role Name: Warlock

Abilities:
-You may curse a player each night

Attributes:
-If a cursed player visits another player whose cursed, the player visiting will die.

Notifications:

Additional Information:

Lore:

Role Name: Doom Bringer

Abilities:
-During the day choose to create an Eclipse

Attributes:
-Your faction will be able to target like its nighttime when there's an eclipse
-During an eclipse players will not be able to vote
-During an eclipse players will not be able to use their daytime abilities

Notifications:

Special Attributes:
-You may create an Eclipse once a game

Additional Information:
-Creates an Extra night

Lore:

Role Name: Devourer

Abilities:
-You may choose one person during the day to devour

Attributes:
-You may anonymously talk with your victim
-You can choose to digest your victim
-Take no action and your victim will be regurgitated
-You cannot devour another victim whilst you are digesting

Notifications:

Special Attributes:
-You will appear as a Jailor to your captive target
-You will override a Jailor if you choose to Jail him or you devour his targets
-It takes three nights to fully digest a Victim

Additional Information:

Lore:

Role Name: Shade

Abilities:
-During the night you may Shadow another player

Attributes:
-All targets directed at you will be redirected to your Shadowed target
-If you are killed you will appear to be the role of the player previously Shadowed

Notifications:

Special Attributes:
-You may Shadow thrice

Additional Information:

Lore:

Town Roles
Role Name: Priest

Abilities:
-Cleanse a town member each night

Attributes:
-Clensing removes all negative debuffs from a Player but will not protect from a Direct attack
-Clensing protects against all non-lethal hostile actions

Notifications:

Special Attributes:
-You are immune to the effects of an Eclipse

Additional Information:
-Removes all negative effects from a debuffs from a Player, this includes Plague and Death Marks, Curses and Intoxication from Succubus.
-Also stops all negative non lethal hostile actions everything from Roleblocks, Witching, Possessing, Conversion

Lore:

Role Name: Hunter

Abilities:
-You may shoot somebody during the day they will be killed instantly

Attributes:
-Your shots ignore any sort of night time immunity

Notifications:

Special Attributes:
-You only get 1 shot

Additional Information:

Lore:
Last edited by TheTraitorofSalem on Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:06 am, edited 16 times in total.
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Re: Horsemen (New Faction!!!)

Postby Cavespider17 » Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:12 am

This faction is Incredibly overpowered and broken. Nothing explains how broken this is better than, in your own words
TheTraitorofSalem wrote:-Chosen all have 1 kill, plus an extra kill when their Leader becomes a Horsemen of the Apocalypse

That extra kill is unneeded.

Furthermore this doesn't make sense as it stands
TheTraitorofSalem wrote:When War has successfully gotten enough town players to kill each other, either by lynching or kills at night, then a war will begin!!! War will be able to convert Town members against their own brothers and sisters!


How does this work? What defines "Enough"? Furthermore, what would you class as Lynching by townies? Evils start pushes on townies, so how would you clarify this as functional in a game mode such as All Any? The answer is simple, it doesn't. You would need to rework this. You cannot brush this off by assuming it won't spawn in All Any, because All Any is All Any.

Regarding Death:
TheTraitorofSalem wrote:Abilities:
-You may choose to mark a player for Death each night
-At night you may choose to kill a player who has been marked for Death
-You may use your wild beast to attack a player each night.

So is this a two turn ability? What level attack is this? You need to explain. What also clasify's as a Wild Beast and where does it come from within the Graveyard? Is it a dead player? Then what player's can become Wild Beasts?

If this is a 2 turn ability this will take a minimum of 6 nights to complete via visits and 3 via lynching to get a wild beast.

Regarding Chosen Death:
TheTraitorofSalem wrote:-Whenever a player who was marked for Death is killed, gain a kill

This implies this stacks which can issue a 3 kpn or more, which is to be frank incredibly overpowered and broken.

Regarding War:
TheTraitorofSalem wrote:-During the night you may choose to possess a player, who you will control the following day

Explain how this works? Do you control their votes as it is a day time ability? If so where is the counter balance to this? Yes you have (agreeably) capped it but thrice is still excessive since there is no cooldown what so ever. Also Conversion roles have to be dealt with incredibly delicately or you end up with a Vampire Situation.

Since you haven't completed the other roles, I will leave this here for now. But yeah a lot of these roles are incredibly overpowered, or do not have their mechanics explained fully. Maybe check some of the more balanced roles out via the Testing Grounds section for a better understanding of why these roles are very Broken.
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Re: Horsemen (New Faction!!!)

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:17 am

Not to mention a factional role CANNOT have invincible defense, regardless of the condition
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Re: Horsemen (New Faction!!!)

Postby WaveAqualei » Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:39 am

syjfwbaobfwl wrote:Not to mention a factional role CANNOT have invincible defense, regardless of the condition

Yeah, it just, uhm.... yeah.
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Re: Horsemen (New Faction!!!)

Postby TheTraitorofSalem » Thu Jan 27, 2022 4:37 pm

This faction is Incredibly overpowered and broken. Nothing explains how broken this is better than, in your own words

I will touch up a bit on the balancing and the other roles later. But calling this faction broken is a bit harsh, especially by quoting Chosen's 1 extra kill. I also think you've misinterpreted the way some of the roles work and how I am balancing this. I should clarify a few things

I am designing this to be balanced as predominantly a 4vs11 setup. Frankly this game is broken so its hard to justify what's balanced and what's not. But 6v9 is incredibly broken. It leaves absolutely no room for error if town makes a mistake. The only reason we have 6 evils in the current game is to compensate for leavers and giving Mafia more power with the instant confirm Meta. Relying on one role to win it for town is not fun game play, all town members should be equally contributing. If Jailor was nerfed to have an equal power level to other TKs and a few metas were phased out, then something like a 3Maf1NK1NB10Town setup would be viable.


How does this work? What defines "Enough"? Furthermore, what would you class as Lynching by townies? Evils start pushes on townies, so how would you clarify this as functional in a game mode such as All Any? The answer is simple, it doesn't. You would need to rework this. You cannot brush this off by assuming it won't spawn in All Any, because All Any is All Any.


That was just a briefing at the top of the post, the other horseman will have briefings as well. Read the road card as it describes exactly how much is "Enough" (3). Evils start pushes yes, but a lynch is still classed as being a town decision even if a lot of them are evil in disguise.


So is this a two turn ability? What level attack is this? (Basic unless stated overwise) You need to explain. What also clasify's as a Wild Beast and where does it come from within the Graveyard? Is it a dead player? Then what player's can become Wild Beasts?

If this is a 2 turn ability this will take a minimum of 6 nights to complete via visits and 3 via lynching to get a wild beast.


All abilities listed on role cards can only be used once per night. So for Death, he can either mark a player or kill a player that has been marked. Death cannot kill anyone who has not been marked for Death. Marking takes an entire night to have effect as well, so Chosen will not gain all kills if a player dies the night they are marked. Sorry, but I'm not the best at wording things.

A Wildbeast is like a minion that you can separately control. No players can become Wild Beasts, I never said it was a resurrection ability.

6 nights to complete and you call it broken? 6 nights is a solid effort for more killing power.



This implies this stacks which can issue a 3 kpn or more, which is to be frank incredibly overpowered and broken.


It stacks as in you gain an extra kill (think of it as Vigilante gaining an extra bullet), but you do not gain the ability's to kill multiple people in a night as Chosen. Elaborate on how you think its broken? Remember it takes 1 full night to mark a player for Death and then an extra night to kill them. So by Night 6, chosens only got 3 kills (with exceptions of marked players getting lynched) which leads to a pretty consistent one kill per night.

N1: Death marks (2)
Chosen kills (7) using his only kill
N2: Death kills (2) successfully
End of night Chosen gains a kill for marked player dying
N3: Chosen Jailed (takes no action)
Death marks (15)
N4: Death kills 15 successfully
Chosen kills (6)
End of night chosen gains a kill
Last edited by TheTraitorofSalem on Thu Jan 27, 2022 4:56 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Horsemen (New Faction!!!)

Postby TheTraitorofSalem » Thu Jan 27, 2022 4:39 pm

syjfwbaobfwl wrote:Not to mention a factional role CANNOT have invincible defense, regardless of the condition


That is not a blanket rule, so don't even argue it. Provide actual Feedback please, rather then just an unnecessary nitpick.

Most of the goals to achieve Horsemen Status take about 5-6 days as well. So if you've worked that hard to achieve it, then you deserve the invincibility status.
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Re: Horsemen (New Faction!!!)

Postby WaveAqualei » Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:11 pm

TheTraitorofSalem wrote:
syjfwbaobfwl wrote:Not to mention a factional role CANNOT have invincible defense, regardless of the condition


That is not a blanket rule, so don't even argue it. Provide actual Feedback please, rather then just an unnecessary nitpick.

They’re right though.
Also they're suggesting you change the defense level. To be fair that is feedback.

Most of the goals to achieve Horsemen Status take about 5-6 days as well. So if you've worked that hard to achieve it, then you deserve the invincibility status.

Most games don’t even last 5-6 days however.
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Re: Horsemen (New Faction!!!)

Postby TheTraitorofSalem » Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:53 pm

WaveAqualei wrote:
TheTraitorofSalem wrote:
syjfwbaobfwl wrote:Not to mention a factional role CANNOT have invincible defense, regardless of the condition


That is not a blanket rule, so don't even argue it. Provide actual Feedback please, rather then just an unnecessary nitpick.

They’re right though.
Also they're suggesting you change the defense level. To be fair that is feedback.

Most of the goals to achieve Horsemen Status take about 5-6 days as well. So if you've worked that hard to achieve it, then you deserve the invincibility status.

Most games don’t even last 5-6 days however.


Didn't I just say "don't argue it" It's not a set rule in the game, just because no factional has a role like that. And the thing is it though it was not feedback, it was a snide comment.

5-6 games is probably spot on how long rank games last and it was just a benchmark, so I don't see your point

Can you stop arguing me about whos right or wrong about things completely irreverent to the role? thanks
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Re: Horsemen (New Faction!!!)

Postby WaveAqualei » Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:59 pm

TheTraitorofSalem wrote:
WaveAqualei wrote:
TheTraitorofSalem wrote:
syjfwbaobfwl wrote:Not to mention a factional role CANNOT have invincible defense, regardless of the condition


That is not a blanket rule, so don't even argue it. Provide actual Feedback please, rather then just an unnecessary nitpick.

They’re right though.
Also they're suggesting you change the defense level. To be fair that is feedback.

Most of the goals to achieve Horsemen Status take about 5-6 days as well. So if you've worked that hard to achieve it, then you deserve the invincibility status.

Most games don’t even last 5-6 days however.


Didn't I just say "don't argue it" It's not a set rule in the game, just because no factional has a role like that. And the thing is it though it was not feedback, it was a snide comment.

5-6 games is probably spot on how long rank games last and it was just a benchmark, so I don't see your point

Can you stop arguing me about whos right or wrong about things completely irreverent to the role? thanks

I’m stating how the game works babe, you don’t have to get upset because I’m bringing you back to reality.
Also just because you receive criticism doesn’t mean it’s always a bash towards you.

I’m not going to judge this faction too hardly right now since you said it’s unfinished but I will say we already have a God/Apocalypse faction on here and I think they did it rather well:
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=118848&p=3610233#p3610233

Try not to copy from it but I think this could inspire you.
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Re: Horsemen (New Faction!!!)

Postby TheTraitorofSalem » Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:17 pm

Where exactly did you state how the game works? Besides from mentioning how long a game lasts on average

I looked at that faction. It's laid out well and well written, but there's too many direct copies or morphs of roles currently in the game.
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Re: Horsemen (New Faction!!!)

Postby WaveAqualei » Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:48 pm

TheTraitorofSalem wrote:Where exactly did you state how the game works? Besides from mentioning how long a game lasts on average

I looked at that faction. It's laid out well and well written, but there's too many direct copies or morphs of roles currently in the game.

No faction role should have defense unless it's the leader, and the defense should be Basic at most. You might get away with Powerful but it really depends.

Morphs of roles is actually a good thing considering the game is pretty balanced (Escort/Consort, Invest/Consig, Retri/Necro, etc).
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Re: Horsemen (New Faction!!!)

Postby TheTraitorofSalem » Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:02 pm

The Horsemen is the Leader though. Powerful vs Invincible makes fuck all difference, besides being immune to the Jailor.

Hookers (Escort/Consort) are a predominantly hostile ability. In older Mafia games role blockers were only ever Mafia roles. Escorts in the base Mafia game currently do nothing but create a deadlock or roleblock important town roles. Roleblocking RM is a thing, but most RM roles aren't powerful enough for that to be game changing.

The game is far from being pretty unbalanced. That's a fact. 6v9 to compensate leavers, half of the players confirmed one day, super swingy set-ups (4 transporter game!), Jailor being more powerful then any other role. And I could list 10 more reasons.
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Re: Horsemen (New Faction!!!)

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:08 pm

TheTraitorofSalem wrote:
syjfwbaobfwl wrote:Not to mention a factional role CANNOT have invincible defense, regardless of the condition


That is not a blanket rule, so don't even argue it. Provide actual Feedback please, rather then just an unnecessary nitpick.

Most of the goals to achieve Horsemen Status take about 5-6 days as well. So if you've worked that hard to achieve it, then you deserve the invincibility status.


Is nota rule, is common sense to not be overpowered

Invencible defense means you can only die from lynching, if you have a team that means you have the advantage of votes
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Re: Horsemen (New Faction!!!)

Postby TheTraitorofSalem » Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:11 pm

Yes but 1 role is not overpowered just because they have invincible defense. Not to mention that there's a goal to achieve, to actually gain this defense.
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Re: Horsemen (New Faction!!!)

Postby WaveAqualei » Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:17 pm

TheTraitorofSalem wrote:Yes but 1 role is not overpowered just because they have invincible defense. Not to mention that there's a goal to achieve, to actually gain this defense.

Roles in a faction shouldn't have a strange goal that doesn't go towards its factional goal or that doesn't help other faction members.
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Re: Horsemen (New Faction!!!)

Postby TheTraitorofSalem » Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:23 pm

Once again another unnecessary argument

How are any of the goals strange? Achieving Horsemen status goes towards winning. Faction members are supporting members to help their faction.
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Re: Horsemen (New Faction!!!)

Postby WaveAqualei » Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:28 pm

TheTraitorofSalem wrote:Once again another unnecessary argument

How are any of the goals strange? Achieving Horsemen status goes towards winning. Faction members are supporting members to help their faction.

None of their goals help each other...
You have a role that wants to kill by being visited and then you have a role that roleblocks... those contradict each other.
You also have another role that takes away abilities/attributes which doesn't help the Medusa duplicate either.

I'm not done reading but Shade has old Disguiser's problem and Devourer is just a evil Jailor that is in a night chat faction... no.

Most of your roles are copies from existing roles, I'm not sure why you're arguing that the link I posted above has too many copies when yours are all literally copies as well...
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Re: Horsemen (New Faction!!!)

Postby TheTraitorofSalem » Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:40 pm

WaveAqualei wrote:
TheTraitorofSalem wrote:Once again another unnecessary argument

How are any of the goals strange? Achieving Horsemen status goes towards winning. Faction members are supporting members to help their faction.

None of their goals help each other...
Acolytes are support roles to help their faction achieve victory. Remember the Horseman is the leader, his members are his followers.
You have a role that wants to kill by being visited and then you have a role that roleblocks... those contradict each other.
Its the Chosen whos dedicated to War that can Immolate themselves. War = fire, destruction. So the role makes perfect sense. What contradicts what? There's no role blocker.

You also have another role that takes away abilities/attributes which doesn't help the Medusa duplicate either.
That's not a problem at all

I'm not done reading but Shade has old Disguiser's problem and Devourer is just a evil Jailor that is in a night chat faction... no.
Old Disguiser was never a problem, besides from being a bit underpowered. The current Disguiser is a problem
An evil Jailor isn't a problem either, if its balanced. Why so negative about it?

Most of your roles are copies from existing roles, I'm not sure why you're arguing that the link I posted above has too many copies when yours are all literally copies as well...
I did not once argue about the link you posted. I stated "they're mostly morphs or exact duplicates" I did not fucking argue. You're the one starting arguments.
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Re: Horsemen (New Faction!!!)

Postby WaveAqualei » Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:45 pm

TheTraitorofSalem wrote:
WaveAqualei wrote:
TheTraitorofSalem wrote:Once again another unnecessary argument

How are any of the goals strange? Achieving Horsemen status goes towards winning. Faction members are supporting members to help their faction.

None of their goals help each other...
Acolytes are support roles to help their faction achieve victory. Remember the Horseman is the leader, his members are his followers.
You have a role that wants to kill by being visited and then you have a role that roleblocks... those contradict each other.
Its the Chosen whos dedicated to War that can Immolate themselves. War = fire, destruction. So the role makes perfect sense. What contradicts what? There's no role blocker.

You also have another role that takes away abilities/attributes which doesn't help the Medusa duplicate either.
That's not a problem at all

I'm not done reading but Shade has old Disguiser's problem and Devourer is just a evil Jailor that is in a night chat faction... no.
Old Disguiser was never a problem, besides from being a bit underpowered. The current Disguiser is a problem
An evil Jailor isn't a problem either, if its balanced. Why so negative about it?

Most of your roles are copies from existing roles, I'm not sure why you're arguing that the link I posted above has too many copies when yours are all literally copies as well...
I did not once argue about the link you posted. I stated "they're mostly morphs or exact duplicates" I did not fucking argue. You're the one starting arguments.


Pretty sure Famine roleblocks and so does Succubus.
We don't need another Vet, needless to say another Medusa.
Evil Jailor will never be balanced unless it's in a solo faction. This needs to be scrapped or changed.

I don't have time for this. Stop starting problems with people just because they don't like/understand your concepts.
/nosupport
Last edited by WaveAqualei on Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Horsemen (New Faction!!!)

Postby TheTraitorofSalem » Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:53 pm

Ah you're a Gaslighter. Read what you said. You're the one starting things with me and then turning it around as if I'm in the wrong. Obviously you just have argumentive personality, but its really annoying and uncalled for.

I don't mind at all if you provide feedback. Cavespider17 did and I never had any problem with it. But you are not providing feedback.

Neither Famine or Succubus are role blockers
Jailor wouldn't work as a kingmaker and a NK Jailor would be too unpowered (if it had limited kills). An evil Jailor could easily be balanced, who are you to know if you have not witnessed it.
Last edited by TheTraitorofSalem on Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Horsemen (New Faction!!!)

Postby WaveAqualei » Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:56 pm

TheTraitorofSalem wrote:Ah you're a Gaslighter. Read what you said. You're the one starting things with me and then turning it around as if I'm in the wrong. Obviously you just have argumentive personality, but its really annoying and uncalled for.

I don't mind at all if you provide feedback. Cavespider17 did and I never had any problem with it.

Neither Famine or Succubus are role blockers

I did provide feedback. You can reread it since you missed it.
Jailor wouldn't work as a kingmaker and a NK Jailor would be too unpowered (if it had limited kills). An evil Jailor could easily be balanced, who are you to know if you have not witnessed it.


The only way to make it "balanced" is if it has a one-time ability, but that would make it useless and boring.
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Re: Horsemen (New Faction!!!)

Postby TheTraitorofSalem » Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:05 am

You started the thread out by ganging up at me about the defense levels. And then you nitpicked about the average time a game lasts

I’m stating how the game works babe, you don’t have to get upset because I’m bringing you back to reality.
Also just because you receive criticism doesn’t mean it’s always a bash towards you.


Not be mentioning this clear insult. When you hadn't stated shit about how the game works either, it was over how long the game lasts.

And then you argued on about the goals (the goal is to kill all the townies and all who oppose obviously) which is completely irrelevant to the actual balance of the roles

Most of your roles are copies from existing roles, I'm not sure why you're arguing that the link I posted above has too many copies when yours are all literally copies as well...


And then this here. Turning the argument on me, like I'm the bad guy. All I had said was "I looked at that faction. It's laid out well and well written, but there's too many direct copies or morphs of roles currently in the game" that's not a fucking argument. You've got an argumentive personality, that is all.
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Re: Horsemen (New Faction!!!)

Postby TheTraitorofSalem » Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:07 am

An evil Jailor would be unbalanced in a 6vs9 game, that is true. But that is a very chaotic setup and I've already listed reasons prior as to how that makes the game unbalanced.

An evil Jailor would be fine in a 4vs11 game or a 3vs2vs10

There's a delay with killing somebody
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Re: Horsemen (New Faction!!!)

Postby WaveAqualei » Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:15 am

TheTraitorofSalem wrote:You started the thread out by ganging up at me about the defense levels. And then you nitpicked about the average time a game lasts

I’m stating how the game works babe, you don’t have to get upset because I’m bringing you back to reality.
Also just because you receive criticism doesn’t mean it’s always a bash towards you.


Not be mentioning this clear insult. When you hadn't stated shit about how the game works either, it was over how long the game lasts.

And then you argued on about the goals (the goal is to kill all the townies and all who oppose obviously) which is completely irrelevant to the actual balance of the roles

Most of your roles are copies from existing roles, I'm not sure why you're arguing that the link I posted above has too many copies when yours are all literally copies as well...


And then this here. Turning the argument on me, like I'm the bad guy. All I had said was "I looked at that faction. It's laid out well and well written, but there's too many direct copies or morphs of roles currently in the game" that's not a fucking argument. You've got an argumentive personality, that is all.

I'm insulting you now because you tell people to "read the damn post" when they don't get what you're saying.
Widget (Cavespider17) is dyslexic and telling her to reread your thread doesn't help her.
I also have a hard time with digesting sentences on text, I'm fairly certain you do as well.

Regardless, I don't like this faction, mainly because these roles would spawn in AA and I don't like the idea of that.
The easiest thing I can suggest is to change the Medusa/Jailor copies to something else.
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Re: Horsemen (New Faction!!!)

Postby WaveAqualei » Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:18 am

TheTraitorofSalem wrote:An evil Jailor would be unbalanced in a 6vs9 game, that is true. But that is a very chaotic setup and I've already listed reasons prior as to how that makes the game unbalanced.

An evil Jailor would be fine in a 4vs11 game or a 3vs2vs10

There's a delay with killing somebody

Maybe in this one rolelist but you also have to take other gamemodes with an "Any" slot into perspective.
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