Assassin (Neutral Evil)

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Assassin (Neutral Evil)

Postby TheTraitorofSalem » Sat Jan 22, 2022 1:23 am

Role Name: Assassin

Attack: Unstoppable
Defense: Basic

Role Alignment: Neutral Evil


Abilities:
Attempt to Assassinate your target each night
If targeted successfully, deal an unstoppable attack to your target

Attributes:
Your target is a "Jailor"
You are limited to 2 Assassination attempts
The town will be made aware of your failure.


Notifications:
The Assassin has failed to Assassinate the Transporter!
Giles Corey was not the Sheriff, your Assassination attempt was foiled.
You have successfully assassinated your target
You were taken out by an Assassin.

Goal: Successfully Assassinate your target
Alternatively if you fail to Assassinate your target, see the town lose.


Win Conditions:
Wins with Mafia, Coven, Vampires, Serial Killers, Arsonists etc
Losses with Town


Additional Information:
-Targets can only be town Members
-Targets will be a role in which there is only one of in the current game. This does not mean the role has to be unique. If there's only 1 Sheriff in the game, then the assassins target can be a Sheriff.
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Re: Assassin (Neutral Evil)

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:37 am

This should be NC, NE shouldnt have the ability to kill

And also the "only 1 of this role is in the game" makes winning as this role extremely easy, tbh it should be "there is MORE than 1 role"

And ofc jailor and mayor shouldnt be posible targets
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Re: Assassin (Neutral Evil)

Postby Cavespider17 » Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:46 am

Firstly Neutral Evils aren't allowed to directly kill. Therefore it has to be a Neutral Chaos in order to fit. Secondly, having a Jailor as a target WHILE having an unstoppable attack isn't fun for the townies. Thirdly, how does this role really lose? Its win condition is far too easy.
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Re: Assassin (Neutral Evil)

Postby TheTraitorofSalem » Sat Jan 22, 2022 8:27 am

Cavespider17 wrote:Firstly Neutral Evils aren't allowed to directly kill. Therefore it has to be a Neutral Chaos in order to fit. Secondly, having a Jailor as a target WHILE having an unstoppable attack isn't fun for the townies. Thirdly, how does this role really lose? Its win condition is far too easy.


Why are they not allowed to directly kill? Neutral Chaos = Neutral garbage. Balancing roles around Jailor isn't fun either! This role only has an unstoppable attack against its targeted role. Town wins a lot more often then evils do. This role has 2 opportunities to target someone, if it fails its only win conditions is to see the town lose.
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Re: Assassin (Neutral Evil)

Postby TheTraitorofSalem » Sat Jan 22, 2022 8:29 am

syjfwbaobfwl wrote:This should be NC, NE shouldnt have the ability to kill

Why shouldn't NE have the abillity to kill? It's one kill! Witch can kill with a Vigilante. NC = dumping ground for neutral roles who dont fit elsewhere.

And also the "only 1 of this role is in the game" makes winning as this role extremely easy, tbh it should be "there is MORE than 1 role"

What? What? The Assassin gets a town target where there is only one of. The game generates only 1 Sheriff, the assassin could get this Sheriff as a target. So the assassin has 1 person to find out of 14. How would having more then 1 role make the role eaiser

And ofc jailor and mayor shouldnt be posible targets

Why not? Balancing the game around Jailor?
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Re: Assassin (Neutral Evil)

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Sat Jan 22, 2022 1:18 pm

TheTraitorofSalem wrote:
syjfwbaobfwl wrote:This should be NC, NE shouldnt have the ability to kill

Why shouldn't NE have the abillity to kill? It's one kill! Witch can kill with a Vigilante. NC = dumping ground for neutral roles who dont fit elsewhere.

And also the "only 1 of this role is in the game" makes winning as this role extremely easy, tbh it should be "there is MORE than 1 role"

What? What? The Assassin gets a town target where there is only one of. The game generates only 1 Sheriff, the assassin could get this Sheriff as a target. So the assassin has 1 person to find out of 14. How would having more then 1 role make the role eaiser

And ofc jailor and mayor shouldnt be posible targets

Why not? Balancing the game around Jailor?



Witch has to find a vigi (that might not even exist) and make sure to not shoot a mafia, and that can be prevented with esc or trans, and is still not a direct kill


If your target is a sheriff, invest or spy then you just wait for d2, there will be at most 3 ppl claiming that role (it will rarely be more than 2), retri might out themselves on d3 if a TI died, same as medium, and any other role can be outed by just vfr or asking someone directly for their role

And I am not making it easier to win, I am making it HARDER, because rn the only way to lose as this role its because you are just bad

And no jailor cause its an easy win, sure it discourages jailir meta but its still a free win for both assasin and the rest of evils
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Re: Assassin (Neutral Evil)

Postby WaveAqualei » Sun Jan 23, 2022 5:33 am

TheTraitorofSalem wrote:
syjfwbaobfwl wrote:This should be NC, NE shouldnt have the ability to kill

Why shouldn't NE have the abillity to kill? It's one kill! Witch can kill with a Vigilante. NC = dumping ground for neutral roles who dont fit elsewhere.

And also the "only 1 of this role is in the game" makes winning as this role extremely easy, tbh it should be "there is MORE than 1 role"

What? What? The Assassin gets a town target where there is only one of. The game generates only 1 Sheriff, the assassin could get this Sheriff as a target. So the assassin has 1 person to find out of 14. How would having more then 1 role make the role eaiser

And ofc jailor and mayor shouldnt be posible targets

Why not? Balancing the game around Jailor?


Witch can't directly kill. Jester is the same way
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Re: Assassin (Neutral Evil)

Postby Soulshade55r » Sun Jan 23, 2022 12:10 pm

Cavespider17 wrote:Firstly Neutral Evils aren't allowed to directly kill. Therefore it has to be a Neutral Chaos in order to fit. Secondly, having a Jailor as a target WHILE having an unstoppable attack isn't fun for the townies. Thirdly, how does this role really lose? Its win condition is far too easy.

Don't tell people that jester exists its not real!

ok this role is pretty awful so does it kill one person that being town it will also confirm that lets say the sheriff is the target, making all sheriff claims fake.

I'm not a fan of this role can be done better and i do agree it doesn't fit neutral evil (not because the direct kill but something like that is pretty hard to balance).


I disagree that witch using vigi a kill (normally resulting in 2 townie deaths). which is way more random and chaotic for the game is balanced but a role with effectively one kill that is less role depend isn't balanced (that being said I still disagree with most ne's with a kill).
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Re: Assassin (Neutral Evil)

Postby TheTraitorofSalem » Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:27 am

Soulshade55r wrote:
Cavespider17 wrote:Firstly Neutral Evils aren't allowed to directly kill. Therefore it has to be a Neutral Chaos in order to fit. Secondly, having a Jailor as a target WHILE having an unstoppable attack isn't fun for the townies. Thirdly, how does this role really lose? Its win condition is far too easy.

Don't tell people that jester exists its not real!

ok this role is pretty awful so does it kill one person that being town it will also confirm that lets say the sheriff is the target, making all sheriff claims fake.

I'm not a fan of this role can be done better and i do agree it doesn't fit neutral evil (not because the direct kill but something like that is pretty hard to balance).


I disagree that witch using vigi a kill (normally resulting in 2 townie deaths). which is way more random and chaotic for the game is balanced but a role with effectively one kill that is less role depend isn't balanced (that being said I still disagree with most ne's with a kill).




Pretty awful? Because of an if, could happen or maybe. This role needs a decent win ratio for being a single-goal orientated role. 70/30% is what I would predict. A Sheriff dying from an Assassination and revealing other fake Sheriffs is not that big of a deal, its also an if... a possibility. Is that your main argument?

But enough with these one dimensional point of views that the game should only be played 1 way. There's other ways to play a game like this.
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Re: Assassin (Neutral Evil)

Postby Soulshade55r » Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:29 am

TheTraitorofSalem wrote:
Soulshade55r wrote:
Cavespider17 wrote:Firstly Neutral Evils aren't allowed to directly kill. Therefore it has to be a Neutral Chaos in order to fit. Secondly, having a Jailor as a target WHILE having an unstoppable attack isn't fun for the townies. Thirdly, how does this role really lose? Its win condition is far too easy.

Don't tell people that jester exists its not real!

ok this role is pretty awful so does it kill one person that being town it will also confirm that lets say the sheriff is the target, making all sheriff claims fake.

I'm not a fan of this role can be done better and i do agree it doesn't fit neutral evil (not because the direct kill but something like that is pretty hard to balance).


I disagree that witch using vigi a kill (normally resulting in 2 townie deaths). which is way more random and chaotic for the game is balanced but a role with effectively one kill that is less role depend isn't balanced (that being said I still disagree with most ne's with a kill).




Pretty awful? Because of an if, could happen or maybe. This role needs a decent win ratio for being a single-goal orientated role. 70/30% is what I would predict. A Sheriff dying from an Assassination and revealing other fake Sheriffs is not that big of a deal, its also an if... a possibility. Is that your main argument?

But enough with these one dimensional point of views that the game should only be played 1 way. There's other ways to play a game like this.


The role is basically night exe, I disagree with exe's design (and jesters) as neutral evil this role has been suggested hundreds of times, it's also a pretty big deal making one role unique once they're confirmed killed by the assassin. If you're going to make a bad role I'm gonna say its bad call it one dimensional or not doesn't change that.
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Re: Assassin (Neutral Evil)

Postby WaveAqualei » Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:29 am

This role is just unbalanced as a whole, the "Targets will be a role in which there is only one of in the current game. This does not mean the role has to be unique. If there's only 1 Sheriff in the game, then the assassins target can be a Sheriff." bit is just... wrong. Also why does Town get notified if you don't shoot correctly? That confirms you easily, making you more confirmable than Executioner is after they get their win.
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Re: Assassin (Neutral Evil)

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Mon Jan 24, 2022 12:13 pm

TheTraitorofSalem wrote:
Soulshade55r wrote:
Cavespider17 wrote:Firstly Neutral Evils aren't allowed to directly kill. Therefore it has to be a Neutral Chaos in order to fit. Secondly, having a Jailor as a target WHILE having an unstoppable attack isn't fun for the townies. Thirdly, how does this role really lose? Its win condition is far too easy.

Don't tell people that jester exists its not real!

ok this role is pretty awful so does it kill one person that being town it will also confirm that lets say the sheriff is the target, making all sheriff claims fake.

I'm not a fan of this role can be done better and i do agree it doesn't fit neutral evil (not because the direct kill but something like that is pretty hard to balance).


I disagree that witch using vigi a kill (normally resulting in 2 townie deaths). which is way more random and chaotic for the game is balanced but a role with effectively one kill that is less role depend isn't balanced (that being said I still disagree with most ne's with a kill).




Pretty awful? Because of an if, could happen or maybe. This role needs a decent win ratio for being a single-goal orientated role. 70/30% is what I would predict. A Sheriff dying from an Assassination and revealing other fake Sheriffs is not that big of a deal, its also an if... a possibility. Is that your main argument?

But enough with these one dimensional point of views that the game should only be played 1 way. There's other ways to play a game like this.



Tbh I doubt this role would have less than 90% wr, winning is just too easy, not to mention it can be a kingmaker, which is a bad thing for many reasons
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Re: Assassin (Neutral Evil)

Postby TheTraitorofSalem » Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:01 am

Aren't Executioners and Survivors kingmakers? Remember you only get 2 attempts to find your target, so it would be much less then 90%
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Re: Assassin (Neutral Evil)

Postby WaveAqualei » Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:03 am

TheTraitorofSalem wrote:Aren't Executioners and Survivors kingmakers? Remember you only get 2 attempts to find your target, so it would be much less then 90%

Yeah they are, so is Pirate to an extent and I don't like kingmaker roles.
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Re: Assassin (Neutral Evil)

Postby TheTraitorofSalem » Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:18 am

Neutral Evil should arguably be siding with Evils.
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Re: Assassin (Neutral Evil)

Postby Soulshade55r » Tue Jan 25, 2022 6:06 am

TheTraitorofSalem wrote:Neutral Evil should arguably be siding with Evils.

Ok but does a role like Jester have reason to side with evils? no, it's basically neutral benign in a neutral evil slot.
Exe has a reason to get their target lynched but thats it, it I'd argue its too evil to be in benign and it's too good to be classed as "Neutral evil"

adding another role with a obscure wincon and adding it into the neutral evil pile doesn't really do anything to solve it.

It's why you see Witch separate from exe/jester in ranked because having two Neutral evil slots would sometimes resort in double witch and sometimes results in no witch, the slot isn't balanced and adding more roles, that already don't have no reason to help evils outside getting their target killed, unless their target dies which they are forced to side evils.

it becomes a mess where the roles performance and swing factory from game by game become too powerful epically compared to something like jester, I wouldn't mind if this role was Neutral chaos but even then it would be uninteresting to something like the Pirate.

This is ignoring that it sometimes just ruins fake claims which the role is meant to be neutral evil, its meant to help out evils.

Id rant about why roles like Jesters aren't even a threat when you can just make confirmed town inno, at worst it will kill a unconfirmed sheriff that was suspicous anyway if town are playing correctly.
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Re: Assassin (Neutral Evil)

Postby WaveAqualei » Tue Jan 25, 2022 6:30 am

TheTraitorofSalem wrote:Neutral Evil should arguably be siding with Evils.

Weren't you the one who brought up Executioner being a Kingmaker?

Soulshade55r wrote:Ok but does a role like Jester have reason to side with evils? no, it's basically neutral benign in a neutral evil slot.

It's only Neutral Evil because it wastes Town a day, which is their most powerful tool. Other than that, it doesn't have to haunt Town; I totally agree, that's for the Jester to decide.
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Re: Assassin (Neutral Evil)

Postby Soulshade55r » Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:26 am

WaveAqualei wrote:
TheTraitorofSalem wrote:Neutral Evil should arguably be siding with Evils.

Weren't you the one who brought up Executioner being a Kingmaker?

Soulshade55r wrote:Ok but does a role like Jester have reason to side with evils? no, it's basically neutral benign in a neutral evil slot.

It's only Neutral Evil because it wastes Town a day, which is their most powerful tool. Other than that, it doesn't have to haunt Town; I totally agree, that's for the Jester to decide.

wastes them a day then has a chance to either kill a uncofirmed townie or if it kills mafia then it's impact is massively town sided imo.

But yeah jester can waste a lynch but considering town wants NE out a lot of the time to prevent kingsmakers, that's arguable at times.
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Re: Assassin (Neutral Evil)

Postby WaveAqualei » Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:58 pm

Soulshade55r wrote:
WaveAqualei wrote:
TheTraitorofSalem wrote:Neutral Evil should arguably be siding with Evils.

Weren't you the one who brought up Executioner being a Kingmaker?

Soulshade55r wrote:Ok but does a role like Jester have reason to side with evils? no, it's basically neutral benign in a neutral evil slot.

It's only Neutral Evil because it wastes Town a day, which is their most powerful tool. Other than that, it doesn't have to haunt Town; I totally agree, that's for the Jester to decide.

wastes them a day then has a chance to either kill a uncofirmed townie or if it kills mafia then it's impact is massively town sided imo.

But yeah jester can waste a lynch but considering town wants NE out a lot of the time to prevent kingsmakers, that's arguable at times.

I see Jest deciding who wins based on whoever asks them if they're jester and they'll help them get lynched, I agree.
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