Mafia Faction Rework

Suggest new roles or changes to current roles for the game here.

Mafia Faction Rework

Postby Benn3 » Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:29 pm

As we know, the current Mafia faction is very flawed. Mafioso is a duplicate of the Godfather, that only exists so that if one or the other gets role blocked, the other can kill. Framer and Disguiser are also roles that the community complains about constantly. Here are many reworks/buffs for most of the roles along with some overall changes to the faction. I should also give credit to This Post as I used a decent amount of ideas from there.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Overall Changes
Spoiler: -Mafioso is removed as a role, due to it being a duplicate of the Godfather and useless with the new killing system. Possibly replaced with an entirely new Mafia Support or Deception role?
-The Godfather no longer chooses who they want to kill; they select at most, 2 Mafia members to perform the kill
-The first Mafia member will be the first attempt, if that member gets role-blocked, witched, etc, the second Mafia member will go instead
-Mafia members will sacrifice their abilities if they are chosen to kill
-Up to 2 members can choose if they want to go out and attempt to kill, but the Godfather takes priority
-The Ambusher cannot be selected to perform a normal killing


Not only will this make the game more fun, it'll also make roles like Janitor and Forger useful when they run out of forges/cleans.


Disguiser(Reworked)
Spoiler: Made a specific post for this Here

Ambusher
Spoiler: -You now have a Cautious option; going Cautious will cause you to see all that visits and not ambush anybody
-You can lay in wait at your own house one time
-Investigator results changed to (Lookout, Forger, Coven Leader, or Ambusher) (Juggernaut moved to BG, GF, Arso, Crus)


Framer
Spoiler: -Choose a non-Mafia member to frame at night or a Mafia member to frame them as
-When framing a player, you may choose any Investigative result that includes any Evil role, if you choose an NE, the Sheriff will find them as Innocent
-A framed player will appear and count as an Evil to a Psychic
-You may also select a second Mafia target to frame them as
-Their investigative results will be for that player's Mafia role
-They will appear to the Lookout and Tracker to visit the target the selected Mafia member visited


Forger
Spoiler: -The list of roles is organized into factions, so that it's much easier to find which role you're looking for
-You can now target any Mafia member
-You will not lose a forge if the attacked target has Defense


Janitor
Spoiler: -You will not lose a clean if you are witched, or if it fails due to the target having Defense
-You can now target any Mafia member


Hypnotist
Spoiler: -You can choose to visit a target without doing anything
-If you attempt to use the role block message on a target, and they receive feedback that night, your ability will not activate on them
-If you attempt to "role block" a role block immune target, they will receive the normal "but you were immune!" feedback
-The poisoned message is changed to the non-Necronomicon version
-If a Spy bugs you, they will get feedback based on what option you chose to hypnotize somebody with(ex: your target's target was attacked last night!)
Last edited by Benn3 on Sat Jul 10, 2021 1:09 pm, edited 10 times in total.
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Re: Mafia Faction Rework

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:48 pm

Benn3 wrote:As we know, the current Mafia faction is very flawed. Mafioso is a duplicate of the Godfather, that only exists so that if one or the other gets role blocked, the other can kill. Framer and Disguiser are also roles that the community complains about constantly. Here are many reworks/buffs for most of the roles along with some overall changes to the faction. I should also give credit to This Post as I used a decent amount of ideas from there.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Overall Changes
Spoiler: -Mafioso is removed as a role, due to it being a duplicate of the Godfather and useless with the new killing system. Possibly replaced with an entirely new Mafia Support or Deception role?

-The Godfather no longer chooses who they want to kill; they select at most, 2 Mafia members to perform the kill
-The first Mafia member will be the first attempt, if that member gets role-blocked, witched, etc, the second Mafia member will go instead
-Mafia members will sacrifice their abilities if they are chosen to kill
-Up to 2 members can choose if they want to go out and attempt to kill, but the Godfather takes priority
-The Ambusher cannot be selected to perform a normal killing


Not only will this make the game more fun, it'll also make roles like Janitor and Forger useful when they run out of forges/cleans.


Ambusher
Spoiler: -Only Lookouts and the player you attack will see you ambush
-You will see up to 2 people that visit, if there are more players, you will be notified
-You now have a Cautious option; going Cautious will cause you to see everybody who visits and not ambush anybody
-You are immune to Veterans, Medusas, Crusaders, and Trappers.


Overpowered af, the lookout thing should be its own role, and being immune to veterans means you can play as a complete idiot and you will never suffer from a penalty, even the current ambusher is overpowered
Also wdym by immune to trappers? Traps dont do anything to ambusher


These changes will now make it so the Ambusher shouldn't be nearly afraid to use their ability.
[b]if you expect to go for obviusly protected targets then be afraid of doing it, thats the point of the notification

It also helps more with the Jailor TP/LO meta, because the Ambusher can find the Lookouts, the Mafioso can kill them, and then the Ambusher can ambush Town Protective roles going on the Jailor.[/b]

The point of the message is to prevent this, going into obviusly protected targets isnt a thing you should allow

Disguiser
Spoiler: -Completely removed/reworked. Framer will now inherit the Disguiser's ability as explained below, to help Framer become much more useful. Disguiser doesn't do enough for it to really be its own role, and neither does Framer. The best option is to remove Disguiser or rework them, and let Framer inherit the disguising ability.
the only people who complain about disg are people who dont know how the role works and/or are bad at playing it

Framer
Spoiler: -Choose a non-Mafia member to disguise as a Mafia member at night
-That person will appear as said Mafia member, meaning if they are disguised as the Mafioso, and the Mafioso attacks Giles Corey, it will appear to a Lookout that the disguised player visited them
-Said person disguised will appear as the disguised Mafia member to all Investigative roles, the Mafia member will appear as said disguised player's role and will appear to visit whoever the disguised player chose to visit.
-You can disguise an Ambusher up to 2 times
[b]The ambusher thing is broken, and it doesnt, there are many reworks which are better because they dont requiere to remove roles whose problems are very little


-You can frame somebody and disguise somebody both on the same night, to disguise somebody, select a Mafia member first, to frame, select a non-Mafia role first
-You can now choose any Mafia role to frame them as. An Investigator will receive the results for that Mafia role, and the Potion Master along with the Coven Leader will see them appear as said Mafia role.
-When you frame somebody, they will appear as an Evil player to a Psychic and will have the chance of appearing in an Evil vision

Now, Framer can counter all Investigative roles, due to them inheriting the Disguiser's ability and being able to change Investigator results to what they want. This way, Framer is the definitive Mafia Deception role, for the most part. Besides, when the Framer disguises somebody, they're also framing them as a Mafia member, so it makes sense for them to have the disguising ability. [/b]



Forger
Spoiler: -The list of roles is organized into factions, so that it's much easier to find which role you're looking for
-You can now target any Mafia member
-You will not lose a forge if you are witched, or if it fails due to the target having Defense

Sure

Janitor
Spoiler: -You will not lose a clean if you are witched, or if it fails due to the target having Defense
-You can now target any Mafia member

Sure

Hypnotist
Spoiler: -You can now target 2 people in one night
-If you attempt to use the role block message on a target, and they receive feedback that night, you will skip that target
-If you attempt to "role block" a role block immune target, they will receive the normal feedback
-If you attempt to "transport" a jailed target, they will receive the normal feedback
-The poisoned message is changed to the non-Necronomicon version
-If a Spy bugs you, they will get feedback based on what option you chose to hypnotize somebody with(ex: your target's target was attacked last night!)

This one is also good
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Re: Mafia Faction Rework

Postby OreCreeper » Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:48 pm

Benn3 wrote:As we know, the current Mafia faction is very flawed. Mafioso is a duplicate of the Godfather, that only exists so that if one or the other gets role blocked, the other can kill. Framer and Disguiser are also roles that the community complains about constantly. Here are many reworks/buffs for most of the roles along with some overall changes to the faction. I should also give credit to This Post as I used a decent amount of ideas from there.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Overall Changes
Spoiler: -Mafioso is removed as a role, due to it being a duplicate of the Godfather and useless with the new killing system. Possibly replaced with an entirely new Mafia Support or Deception role?
-The Godfather no longer chooses who they want to kill; they select at most, 2 Mafia members to perform the kill
-The first Mafia member will be the first attempt, if that member gets role-blocked, witched, etc, the second Mafia member will go instead
-Mafia members will sacrifice their abilities if they are chosen to kill
-Up to 2 members can choose if they want to go out and attempt to kill, but the Godfather takes priority
-The Ambusher cannot be selected to perform a normal killing


Not only will this make the game more fun, it'll also make roles like Janitor and Forger useful when they run out of forges/cleans.


Ambusher
Spoiler: -Only Lookouts and the player you attack will see you ambush
-You will see up to 2 people that visit, if there are more players, you will be notified
-You now have a Cautious option; going Cautious will cause you to see everybody who visits and not ambush anybody
-You are immune to Veterans, Medusas, Crusaders, and Trappers.


These changes will now make it so the Ambusher shouldn't be nearly afraid to use their ability. It also helps more with the Jailor TP/LO meta, because the Ambusher can find the Lookouts, the Mafioso can kill them, and then the Ambusher can ambush Town Protective roles going on the Jailor.



Disguiser
Spoiler: -Completely removed/reworked. Framer will now inherit the Disguiser's ability as explained below, to help Framer become much more useful. Disguiser doesn't do enough for it to really be its own role, and neither does Framer. The best option is to remove Disguiser or rework them, and let Framer inherit the disguising ability.

Framer
Spoiler: -Choose a non-Mafia member to disguise as a Mafia member at night
-That person will appear as said Mafia member, meaning if they are disguised as the Mafioso, and the Mafioso attacks Giles Corey, it will appear to a Lookout that the disguised player visited them
-Said person disguised will appear as the disguised Mafia member to all Investigative roles, the Mafia member will appear as said disguised player's role and will appear to visit whoever the disguised player chose to visit.
-You can disguise an Ambusher up to 2 times

-You can frame somebody and disguise somebody both on the same night, to disguise somebody, select a Mafia member first, to frame, select a non-Mafia role first
-You can now choose any Mafia role to frame them as. An Investigator will receive the results for that Mafia role, and the Potion Master along with the Coven Leader will see them appear as said Mafia role.
-When you frame somebody, they will appear as an Evil player to a Psychic and will have the chance of appearing in an Evil vision

Now, Framer can counter all Investigative roles, due to them inheriting the Disguiser's ability and being able to change Investigator results to what they want. This way, Framer is the definitive Mafia Deception role, for the most part. Besides, when the Framer disguises somebody, they're also framing them as a Mafia member, so it makes sense for them to have the disguising ability.


Forger
Spoiler: -The list of roles is organized into factions, so that it's much easier to find which role you're looking for
-You can now target any Mafia member
-You will not lose a forge if you are witched, or if it fails due to the target having Defense


Janitor
Spoiler: -You will not lose a clean if you are witched, or if it fails due to the target having Defense
-You can now target any Mafia member


Hypnotist
Spoiler: -You can now target 2 people in one night
-If you attempt to use the role block message on a target, and they receive feedback that night, you will skip that target
-If you attempt to "role block" a role block immune target, they will receive the normal feedback
-If you attempt to "transport" a jailed target, they will receive the normal feedback
-The poisoned message is changed to the non-Necronomicon version
-If a Spy bugs you, they will get feedback based on what option you chose to hypnotize somebody with(ex: your target's target was attacked last night!)

Ambusher: This would make amb OP asf. No support. Amb can literally get kills with no risk and give mafia 2 KPN consistently. Not to mention the lookout interaction would make amb RNG become even worse bc if the amb visits someone with LO + 3 other visitors, amb is safe if they kill LO but if they kill any of the other visitors they get outed. And the mafia LO mechanic is just pointless bc amb doesnt need another power.

Disguiser: I say keep the role, but make it more like disg V2 but make it more powerful.

Framer: Sure.

Forger: Sure. Forges should be used if the target doesnt die tho imo bc forger is already powerful enough. Also it makes no sense that you don't lose a forge if you get witched because you're still performing your ability. If this was implemented, it would have to be implemented for all limited use roles to maintain consistency and it just doesn't make sense.

Janitor: Same as forger.

Hypnotist: This doesn't make a lot of logical sense. If someone gets jailed, then you wont be able to hypnotize them because they aren't at home. In fact, if we were to apply consistency with the other role interactions, the jailed person would know that someone tried to hypnotize them as they would see the hypno visit them (the same way they know that an escort tried to rb them I guess?) but they won't actually be hypnoed so they wouldn't be fooled by the hypno. I agree with letting hypno target 2 ppl tho.
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Re: Mafia Faction Rework

Postby SilverCruz » Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:03 pm

"The only people who complain about Disguiser are the people who don't know how it works."

Oh, I know how it works.

Godfather declares an attack against William Phips.
Mafioso echoes the attack against William Phips.
Consigliere decides to check William Hobbs.
Disguiser chooses to disguise Consigliere as Cotton Mathers.

A member of the Mafia visited William Phips last night!
A member of the Mafia visited William Hobbs last night!
A member of the Mafia visited Consigliere last night!
A member of the Mafia visited Cotton Mathers last night!

Now Spy instantly knows that there is a Disguiser because four visits is impossible without one, and furthermore that one of the visits, excluding Phips if he was knocked out, must be a member of the Mafia so the Disguiser has succeeded in giving the Spy a night of being a Psychic.

Disguiser is broken. It can be partly fixed with no effort by making it completely invisible to Spies. That way even if a Spy deducts that there is a Disguiser by the Mafia never appearing to visit more than one target per night, they can't look through the previous visits to see who it is. It's still a hard counter that relies on other roles to exist in order to do literally anything, but it's not as bad as Framer in that respect.

And regarding Ambusher, the problem is that the Town is already chock-full of overpowered roles. Jailor is outright overpowered, Bodyguard is outright overpowered, Transporter is outright overpowered, Doctor is also pretty damn unfair by extension of the Jailor Meta giving it an obvious target with no possible way for it to be punished without the Mafia immediately losing a head unless they just get lucky and all the Doctors, Bodyguards, and Lookouts decided "Well the Jailor claim is too obvious so I'll do something else", which you can't rely on. It's fine for Ambusher to be overtuned as long as the Town stays overtuned because it's more important to stop the Jailor Meta than it is to try to keep the Mafia balanced, nevermind that it's not because it gets four faction members, two of which do the same thing and only exist to stall deadlocks, and of those four the Framer, Hypnotist, and Disguiser exist, with Framer being famous for being an ineffective jobber and Hypnotist and Disguiser sharing the common trait of being able to sell themselves out by just doing what they're apparently supposed to be doing. The Mafia has garbage roles that severely impact them. A Medium in a scenario where everyone immediately leaves as soon as they get knocked out is a garbage role too, but the Town has a thick enough roster that it can deal with that more easily than the Mafia can deal with having two damn Framers.
I know what I'm doing, generally, but I have no grace at all when things start to spin out of control.

I'd like to address the latter part, but I wouldn't know the first thing about that.
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Re: Mafia Faction Rework

Postby Benn3 » Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:56 pm

Ok, I nerfed the Ambusher so that they only see who visits if they go on Cautious, instead of them seeing 2 people even when they are deciding to ambush anybody.

But besides, they aren't as OP as it seems. Take Ranked as we have it right now. Jailor comes out D1, and every LO and Town Protective is on them. Ambusher is the only one that can really stop this, or until the Town Protective and Lookouts are revealed, but in that case, the Town Protects will start chaining together, one going on the Jailor, and another on them, etc. Plus, there's no way you'll consistently get 2 kills per night unless you get very lucky, and the role is hard countered by Mediums and in the reworked version's case, Lookouts. The reason why I made them immune to Veterans, Medusas, etc, is because logically, the Ambusher is supposed to sneak around their house and target visitors, not directly walk up to their door like a Mafioso. In the case of a Trapper, I meant that the traps wouldn't be able to be triggered by Ambushers(in the case of a Trapper seeing that they visited, not because it kills them) since again, logically it doesn't really make sense. Maybe though, Trappers would be able to see an Ambusher ambush somebody that went on their trapped target with a hypothetical camera in the trap? Trapper isn't in Classic ranked though so they don't really have much relevance here anyways.

As for the Hypnotist, I've edited it so that your ability fails on jailed targets instead of giving the "somebody tried to roleblock/transport you" message.
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Re: Mafia Faction Rework

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:01 pm

SilverCruz wrote:"The only people who complain about Disguiser are the people who don't know how it works."

Oh, I know how it works.

Godfather declares an attack against William Phips.
Mafioso echoes the attack against William Phips.
Consigliere decides to check William Hobbs.
Disguiser chooses to disguise Consigliere as Cotton Mathers.

A member of the Mafia visited William Phips last night!
A member of the Mafia visited William Hobbs last night!
A member of the Mafia visited Consigliere last night!
A member of the Mafia visited Cotton Mathers last night!

Now Spy instantly knows that there is a Disguiser because four visits is impossible without one, and furthermore that one of the visits, excluding Phips if he was knocked out, must be a member of the Mafia so the Disguiser has succeeded in giving the Spy a night of being a Psychic.

Disguiser is broken. It can be partly fixed with no effort by making it completely invisible to Spies. That way even if a Spy deducts that there is a Disguiser by the Mafia never appearing to visit more than one target per night, they can't look through the previous visits to see who it is. It's still a hard counter that relies on other roles to exist in order to do literally anything, but it's not as bad as Framer in that respect.

And regarding Ambusher, the problem is that the Town is already chock-full of overpowered roles. Jailor is outright overpowered, Bodyguard is outright overpowered, Transporter is outright overpowered, Doctor is also pretty damn unfair by extension of the Jailor Meta giving it an obvious target with no possible way for it to be punished without the Mafia immediately losing a head unless they just get lucky and all the Doctors, Bodyguards, and Lookouts decided "Well the Jailor claim is too obvious so I'll do something else", which you can't rely on. It's fine for Ambusher to be overtuned as long as the Town stays overtuned because it's more important to stop the Jailor Meta than it is to try to keep the Mafia balanced, nevermind that it's not because it gets four faction members, two of which do the same thing and only exist to stall deadlocks, and of those four the Framer, Hypnotist, and Disguiser exist, with Framer being famous for being an ineffective jobber and Hypnotist and Disguiser sharing the common trait of being able to sell themselves out by just doing what they're apparently supposed to be doing. The Mafia has garbage roles that severely impact them. A Medium in a scenario where everyone immediately leaves as soon as they get knocked out is a garbage role too, but the Town has a thick enough roster that it can deal with that more easily than the Mafia can deal with having two damn Framers.


well that shows you dont know well how it works

In the situation you showed, william hobs wouldnt have shown as mafia visit

And anyway, that argument is not really valid for 2 reasons

1: the problem there is spy, and not disguiser
2: that problem can also be fixed by allowing framer to decieve spy


Jailor overpowered? yes it is, reason why it needs to be out of ranked, but even then you do get punished as jailor if you play it bad
Bodyguard ovepowered? not at all (suposing you dont consider the bg doc chain which shouldnt exist in first place)
Transporter overpowered? yeah, needs a nerf, but it does punishes bad plays, and you pay very expensive for not using it properly
It wouldnt be the case if you reworked ambusher as it is

is mafia flawed? yeah
Is the current mafioso/GF killing system pretty outdated and boring? yes
Is framer a fcking piece of garbage in urgent need of a buff? yes
Is hypno a very underpowered role? yes
Is diguiser a very underpowered role? maybe, but you can fix it by fixing either spy or framer (or both)
Is ambusher underpowered? no, its not
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Re: Mafia Faction Rework

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:04 pm

Benn3 wrote:Ok, I nerfed the Ambusher so that they only see who visits if they go on Cautious, instead of them seeing 2 people even when they are deciding to ambush anybody.

But besides, they aren't as OP as it seems. Take Ranked as we have it right now. Jailor comes out D1, and every LO and Town Protective is on them. Ambusher is the only one that can really stop this, or until the Town Protective and Lookouts are revealed, but in that case, the Town Protects will start chaining together, one going on the Jailor, and another on them, etc. Plus, there's no way you'll consistently get 2 kills per night unless you get very lucky, and the role is hard countered by Mediums and in the reworked version's case, Lookouts. The reason why I made them immune to Veterans, Medusas, etc, is because logically, the Ambusher is supposed to sneak around their house and target visitors, not directly walk up to their door like a Mafioso. In the case of a Trapper, I meant that the traps wouldn't be able to be triggered by Ambushers(in the case of a Trapper seeing that they visited, not because it kills them) since again, logically it doesn't really make sense. Maybe though, Trappers would be able to see an Ambusher ambush somebody that went on their trapped target with a hypothetical camera in the trap? Trapper isn't in Classic ranked though so they don't really have much relevance here anyways.

As for the Hypnotist, I've edited it so that your ability fails on jailed targets instead of giving the "somebody tried to roleblock/transport you" message.


take the ambusher example in ranked

Jailor comes out, ambusher kills someone
Mafia kills someone else
everything depends on LO existing and having survived the nigth to out ambusher, if not then mafia makes an easy misslynch (or stall the day without any lynch at all)
witch on jailor, mafia won
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Re: Mafia Faction Rework

Postby SilverCruz » Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:47 pm

All I know is that I once had a round as a Spy where I saw more Mafia visits than is normally possible and that meant that there was a Disguiser.
I know what I'm doing, generally, but I have no grace at all when things start to spin out of control.

I'd like to address the latter part, but I wouldn't know the first thing about that.
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Re: Mafia Faction Rework

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:46 am

SilverCruz wrote:All I know is that I once had a round as a Spy where I saw more Mafia visits than is normally possible and that meant that there was a Disguiser.


Disg went on godfather then, which is the worst thing you can do
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Re: Mafia Faction Rework

Postby SilverCruz » Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:13 pm

Oh, that explains it.

Still stupid that this can occur at all, and still stupid that if you do anything as a Disguiser and there is a Spy to see your visits then you will sell out any other Mafia members that you've visted the moment you drop, though. Also still stupid that it's a role that relies on other roles existing to do anything.
I know what I'm doing, generally, but I have no grace at all when things start to spin out of control.

I'd like to address the latter part, but I wouldn't know the first thing about that.
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Re: Mafia Faction Rework

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:35 pm

SilverCruz wrote:Oh, that explains it.

Still stupid that this can occur at all, and still stupid that if you do anything as a Disguiser and there is a Spy to see your visits then you will sell out any other Mafia members that you've visted the moment you drop, though. Also still stupid that it's a role that relies on other roles existing to do anything.


I mean, like all other roles?

if you are going to get that deep then

consort needs non rb immune roles to do anything
bmer needs talktative players to do anything
jani needs dead people
forger needs dead people
consig needs hidden people


and, by 9000 time, the problem there is not disguiser, it is spy, and there are 2 ways to fix it

1: allow framer to decieve spy
2: rework spy
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Re: Mafia Faction Rework

Postby Benn3 » Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:40 pm

Disguiser is also kinda buggy too though. One time I was a Mafioso, Disguiser disguised me as some random guy, I go kill another guy, and Lookout still sees me visit them instead of the other person.

That and they generally aren't fun to play which is why I think they should be implemented into Framer to make them a much better role. You could also implement Framer into Disguiser I guess but I feel like the other way around is better since disguising people = framing people technically.
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Re: Mafia Faction Rework

Postby SilverCruz » Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:49 pm

I'm inclined to figure that "bug" wasn't a bug, and instead was one of the EXCEEDINGLY RARE CASES of an Escort actually doing something useful that isn't straight deadlocking.

As for the other post...

Consort - Roles which can be targeted are guaranteed and varied.
Blackmailer - If there are no talkative players, the Town has bigger problems than a Blackmailer.
Janitor/Forger - The Mafia makes dead people all the time.
Consigliere - What the hell does "hidden" even mean in this case?

And as for it being the Spy, sure! But how would it be harmful to just make the Disguiser totally invisible to Spies as a short-term solution?
I know what I'm doing, generally, but I have no grace at all when things start to spin out of control.

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Re: Mafia Faction Rework

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:52 pm

SilverCruz wrote:I'm inclined to figure that "bug" wasn't a bug, and instead was one of the EXCEEDINGLY RARE CASES of an Escort actually doing something useful that isn't straight deadlocking.

As for the other post...

Consort - Roles which can be targeted are guaranteed and varied.
Blackmailer - If there are no talkative players, the Town has bigger problems than a Blackmailer.
Janitor/Forger - The Mafia makes dead people all the time.
Consigliere - What the hell does "hidden" even mean in this case?

And as for it being the Spy, sure! But how would it be harmful to just make the Disguiser totally invisible to Spies as a short-term solution?


because what you doing there is to "move the victim to another place" instead of "stoping the abuser", basically you would be changing the guy whos doing nothing weong instead of the 2 people who are
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Re: Mafia Faction Rework

Postby SilverCruz » Thu Jun 24, 2021 7:04 pm

I mean I'd argue Disguiser is doing something wrong by being a hard counter with no feedback. Spy is an asinine role, but Disguiser isn't innocent.
I know what I'm doing, generally, but I have no grace at all when things start to spin out of control.

I'd like to address the latter part, but I wouldn't know the first thing about that.
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Re: Mafia Faction Rework

Postby Obituary » Fri Jun 25, 2021 5:51 am

Forger
-The list of roles is organized into factions, so that it's much easier to find which role you're looking for
Unneeded, it really isn't that hard to find the role you wish to forge. Don't dumb the game down.

Hypnotist
-You can now target 2 people in one night
No lol, learn to lie
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Re: Mafia Faction Rework

Postby SilverCruz » Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:03 am

I mean Hypnotist is broken as-is anyway because it can instantly sell itself out through conflicting feedback. I don't think too strongly on the two visits at once, I guess broadly I favor it to piss on Transporter's shoes, but it needs to at least cancel its visit if completing it would cause a feedback conflict.
I know what I'm doing, generally, but I have no grace at all when things start to spin out of control.

I'd like to address the latter part, but I wouldn't know the first thing about that.
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Re: Mafia Faction Rework

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:27 am

SilverCruz wrote:I mean Hypnotist is broken as-is anyway because it can instantly sell itself out through conflicting feedback. I don't think too strongly on the two visits at once, I guess broadly I favor it to piss on Transporter's shoes, but it needs to at least cancel its visit if completing it would cause a feedback conflict.


This
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Re: Mafia Faction Rework

Postby Benn3 » Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:58 pm

6/25/21 Ambusher Edits:

-People who visit you will also see you ambush
-No longer immune to Vets, Dusas, etc.
My main role concepts:

Caporegime
Spirit
Sniper
Assassin
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Re: Mafia Faction Rework

Postby Cabohhh » Fri Jul 02, 2021 12:06 pm

Um, the Disguiser thing is inside the Ambusher spoiler.
The Coroner
The Mystic
The Hitman
The Hierophant

Grey's Anatomy, Season 5, Episode 6, 3:17
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Re: Mafia Faction Rework

Postby Benn3 » Fri Jul 02, 2021 3:45 pm

Cabohhh wrote:Um, the Disguiser thing is inside the Ambusher spoiler.


Fixed
My main role concepts:

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Assassin
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Re: Mafia Faction Rework

Postby Benn3 » Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:34 pm

Big 7/6/21 Changes(due to how im nominating this for the role concept poll)

- Ambusher is now still seen by everybody if they ambush somebody
- Ambusher investigative results changed
- Framer explanation rewritten
- Gave Disguiser a full rework linked Here
- Hypnotist can no longer visit 2 players however they can choose to visit somebody without doing anything
My main role concepts:

Caporegime
Spirit
Sniper
Assassin
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