Role Megathread

[MarsGodofWar]

Sick of the Jailor and the TP/LO meta? Tired of the same old format every game? Then you've come to the right place. I have composed a few well-thought-out roles which will aim to create a new meta or counter the tp/lo meta. The evil and Mafia roles that I've suggested will make it detrimental for powerful roles to claim early on. These roles have all been balanced well, but any suggestions to improve them are welcomed.

Kidnapper is a Mafia Jailor role which is less powerful than the town version of the Jailor. Having a Mafia version of the Jailor is the best way to counter the Jailor meta. The Kidnapper is a very useful role and can create deception about who the real Jailor is. Because the Mafia has more kill potential than the town and is a part of a faction who all know each other, the Kidnapper is only able to kill once.

Sniper is a really useful role. He has a one-time use unstoppable attack. The Sniper is a trained and disciplined soldier. He kills on behalf of the Mafia, but he charges a fortune. He always hits the heads of his victims. Players will think twice before they decide to reveal themselves as such an important role. This is a unique role and will not be able to appear with other Mafia killings in the game. Jailors/Mayors & Marshalls may be able to safely reveal once they know a Sniper doesn't exist.

Agent is a Mafia Support role. This role is a decent counter for the TP/LO meta and Jailors will think twice before they trust all Lookouts. The Agent is a spy who works on behalf of the Mafia. He can either, follow his target and see who they visit or stake out their target's house and see anyone who visits them. The Agent is also able to stake out his own house.

The Auditor is a very useful Neutral Role. I believe I've perfectly balanced it to be on par with the Witch. The Witch can downright screw the town over by making a Jailor misexecute, cause the death of two town members by making a Vigilante shoot someone or by sending a Bodyguard off a Mayor. The Auditor can instead screw the town by making certain roles completely useless, still better than being dead right? Want to out yourself as Jailor and unsure if it's a Witch or Auditor game? Bad idea, the Auditor will target you for Tax Evasion and you will be able to do nothing as Jailor unless you have a Bodyguard protecting you.

The Judge is another Neutral Evil role on par with the Auditor and Witch. Instead of countering the Jailor, TKS & TPS like the Witch and Auditor, the Judge focuses on the important Town Government roles. The Judge can easily cause a mislynch, But it has to make sure its worth it. The Judge is very vulnerable and calling court may not always work if the Town has an overwhelming majority. Still, Mayors and Marshalls will think twice before revealing in a Judge game.

The Marshall is a Town Government/Power/Support role that cannot exist when there is a Mayor in the game. The Marshall is on par with the Mayor in terms of balancing and each has its own advantages and weaknesses. Able to lynch multiple evils at once, he needs to use his ability wisely.

Kidnapper
Role Name: Kidnapper

Role Alignment: Mafia Killing

Attack: Unstoppable Defense: None

Abilities:
-Choose a target during the day to kidnap that night
-Execute your captive

Attributes:
-Talk anonymously with your captive at night
-You may only kidnap three times
-You may perform one execute

Additional Information:
-If both the Kidnapper and the Jailor capture the same target, both Jailors will appear as "Jailor" and the three players will see each others chat.
-If the Kidnapper and Jailor attempt to capture each other on the same night, then the Jailing will fail.
-If either the Kidnapper or Jailor attempts to kidnap the other Jailor/Kidnapper, the one who has been kidnapped/jailed will not jail/kidnap anyone

Sniper
Role Name: Sniper

Role Alignment: Mafia Killing

Abilities:
-Snipe a player dealing an unstoppable attack

Attributes:
-You have one bullet
-You cannot be roleblocked

Additional Information:

Agent
Role Name: Agent

Role Alignment: Mafia Support

Abilities:
-Stalk a player and find out who they visit that night
-Stakeout a player's house and determine all players who visit them.

Attributes:
-You may stakeout your own house

Additional Information:

Auditor
Role Name: Auditor

Role Alignment:Neutral Evil

Abilities:
-Target a player and Audit them for Tax Evasion.

Attributes:
-Your target will lose all their role abilities and attributes
-You can audit three times
-You cannot audit players with night time immunity
-You cannot audit revealed Mayors or Marshalls
-A Bodyguard will block your path from an audit, but you will not fight.

Additional Information:

Judge
Role Name: Judge

Role Alignment: Neutral Evil

Abilities:
-During the day, call court
-During the day, object to a lynch

Attributes:
-During court all players will appear as "The Court" and you will appear as "The Judge"
-During court all votes will remain anonymous
-During court your votes count as 3
-During court the player who gets the majority vote will be instantly lynched
-You may call court once
-You may object to a lynch once

Additional Information:

Marshall
Role Name: Marshall

Role Alignment: Town Elite

Abilities:
-Reveal yourself once during the day and cause a group lynch

Attributes:
-During a group lynch, town will have 30 seconds to vote each person. Whoever has the majority vote at the end of the 30 seconds will be lynched
-During a group lynch, the town MUST lynch 3 players
-You may call a group lynch once.
-The roles of the lynched players will not be revealed until the end of the day

Additional Information:

Alignments:
Mafia Killing = Ambusher, Kidnapper, Sniper (ALIGNMENT is Unique)
Neutral Evil = Judge, Auditor , Witch
Neutral Benign = Survivor, Amnesiac, Executioner, Jester
Town Elite = Jailor, Marshall, Mayor
Town Power = Retributionist, Transporter,

[alex1234321]

Why can't we just remove Jailor from Ranked? As long as there are confirmable Townies (like your Marshall idea), there will always be a meta. The only way to fully get rid of Jailor meta is to get rid of Jailor.

[MarsGodofWar]

Why can't we just remove Jailor from Ranked? As long as there are confirmable Townies (like your Marshall idea), there will always be a meta. The only way to fully get rid of Jailor meta is to get rid of Jailor.

Removing Jailor makes the game boring. It is a good role, just the meta built around it sucks and makes the role overpowered. There should always be a hierarchy in a Mafia game; the game needs a Town Power role which is more powerful then other standard roles. But it shouldn't be as easy as saying "Hi I'm Jailor" and then being instantly confirmed and knowing who all TP is day 2.

[alex1234321]

Why can't we just remove Jailor from Ranked? As long as there are confirmable Townies (like your Marshall idea), there will always be a meta. The only way to fully get rid of Jailor meta is to get rid of Jailor.

Removing Jailor makes the game boring. It is a good role, just the meta built around it sucks and makes the role overpowered. There should always be a hierarchy in a Mafia game; the game needs a Town Power role which is more powerful then other standard roles. But it shouldn't be as easy as saying "Hi I'm Jailor" and then being instantly confirmed and knowing who all TP is day 2.

In ToS, especially with the small playerbase, you're always going to have a mixture of great and terrible players. If the best player in a lobby rolls Jailor, there's a much higher chance of Town winning than if the worst player gets it. Everyone should contribute to Town's victory equally.

The fact that everyone in ToS can do stuff will never make the game boring. It's not like other Mafia games where there are 9 Citizens who just have to sit there and vote. Maybe the having a Jailor makes the game more exciting for the Jailor, but for most other roles it just creates a stale meta, whether this means claiming D1 or revealing later in the game when you can put everything together and win the game for Town.

[MarsGodofWar]

In ToS, especially with the small playerbase, you're always going to have a mixture of great and terrible players. If the best player in a lobby rolls Jailor, there's a much higher chance of Town winning than if the worst player gets it. Everyone should contribute to Town's victory equally.

Isn't that why ranks exist? Silver for bad players and grandmasters for the pros. If only BMG spent time on innovating and updating their game regularly, prehaps the playerbase would increase and we wouldn't have games with silvers in grandmaster lobbies. Also, maybe if the ranks were actually based on skill rather than just having to grind for hours to get to a certain rank. I won all ten of my placement games and still ended up in silver.

I agree, that a game shouldn't be solely won or lost from the actions or mistakes of one player. Which is unfortunately really common in this meta. I've seen plenty of games when Jailor has gotten 3 flawless executions on Night 2/3/4 and there was absolutely nothing Mafia could do to win. I have been Jailor in games like this myself and even if the evils play well, it eventually becomes easy to work out who everyone is.

Town of Salem needs to be easier for the Mafia to confirm themselves and harder for the town to confirm themselves. This will make the game more balanced.

Still, perhaps by making the Jailor more vulnerable and nerfing the meta, then we might see more games won by all players equalling contributing.

All roles within a category should be evenly balanced. Town Protectives, Doctor has the advantage of being able to save a target multiple times, whilst Bodyguard can only save a player once but can also take out very important evil roles. With Town Killing it is not the case. Veteran and Vigilante are evenly balanced, but Jailor is way more powerful than both of them. There are ways to make Jailor on par with Veteran and Vigilante. I still love Jailor as a role though and I would hate to see it nerfed. It is a very fun role to play and really adds a spark to the game.

[Brilliand]

What does Auditor do to killing roles (i.e. Serial Killer, Arsonist, Pestilence, Mafioso)?

[runningwiththepower]

So I do like Auditor but I am bit confused about it:

Does it have the same win condition as Witch--IE: See Town Lose? Or something else???

Also--I think it should have only 2 Audits-----3 Seems like A Bittttt too much Especially since it totally steals away a person's role. That way, the Auditor has to think more carefully about who to pick
I also kinda wonder if maybe an Audit could be stopped by ALL TP beyond just the BG. And can the Audit be RoleBlocked?

Like I said, I like the role--its a good idea--but I want some clarification on it first

[MarsGodofWar]

Yes, it has the same Win Conditions as Witch. I consider TRUE Neutral Evil to be roles that cannot win with Town. Executioner/Jester need to be realigned imo.

Hmmm, 2 Audits would make it a bit useless. This role is meant to be detrimental to the town. Witch can cause the loss of two town members by making a Vigi shoot a Townie. At least with Auditor, you don't die.

And no... Doctor can not protect from Audits. This role isn't an attacking role so Doctor cannot "heal" an Audit. A Bodyguard will still block the path of an Auditor, but the Auditor will just piss off and they won't duel.

What does Auditor do to killing roles (i.e. Serial Killer, Arsonist, Pestilence, Mafioso)?

Audits fail against roles with Basic Defence. For Mafioso, the original version of this role turned all RM versions into Mafiosos. But that received backlash because of Mafioso being Unique (which I think is irrelevant) and the fact that it would be RNG if there were two Mafiosos. So there are a few possibilities of what could happen to Mafioso.... Option 1, Mafioso could lose their ability to kill and if there is no Godfather another RM would become Mafioso as "If there are no remaining Mafia killing roles left you will become Mafioso". Option 2, Mafia cannot be audited at all. Option 3, Mafioso keeps their ability to kill but losses after attributes such as "you will become the next Godfather" . Thoughts??? Would you support this role?

[runningwiththepower]

I like Auditor but I still think it is a bit OP

but i would be curious to hear what other people think

[alex1234321]

My issue with Auditor is that it's not a fun role. Even if it's balanced, nobody wants to be useless. The main thing that makes ToS different from other Mafia games is that everyone can do something. If Auditor was added there would be massive backlash and very few players would enjoy games where there is an Auditor.

[Brilliand]

So there are a few possibilities of what could happen to Mafioso.... Option 1, Mafioso could lose their ability to kill and if there is no Godfather another RM would become Mafioso as "If there are no remaining Mafia killing roles left you will become Mafioso". Option 2, Mafia cannot be audited at all. Option 3, Mafioso keeps their ability to kill but losses after attributes such as "you will become the next Godfather" . Thoughts???

If Mafia cannot be audited at all, then that kind of has to be expanded into "only Town-aligned roles can be audited". There are scarce few non-Town roles that can sensibly lose their abilities.

Option 1 works okay, except that that same player would likely become Mafioso again later, which seems against the spirit of the Auditor.
Option 3 would work for Mafia, but doesn't transfer to other factional killers such as Vampire or Poisoner.

Would you support this role?

I share alex's objection that the role isn't fun regardless of balance, so no, I won't be supporting it.

[ak521]

Sniper just seems unnecessary.
Kidnapper seems too OP and confusing
Agent is confusing.
I like Judge but I don't understand its incentive. I think a little work on that could make it a really good role.
Marshall is too chaos.

fyi- confusing is i read it one time and it didn't click. considering the tos community is mainly 6-9 years old by now (not me but) they probably will not understand

[Cookazoo2]

Kidnapper –– no mafia jailors.
Sniper –– would prefer if it were astral. generally mafia doesn't need another kill –– tmk is what i care about more.
Agent –– i agree this role should be tested and added.
Auditor –– i don't like vanillaizers and never will.
Judge –– interesting concept, but it needs retooling.
Marshall –– too powerful. needs major fixing.

overall these roles have been balanced for SC2 Mafia. Town of Salem has moved on from its SC2 roots since then. If you want me to balance these roles based on basic concept and name alone I'll do that, otherwise, /support for Agent only, and /anti-nom kidnapper, auditor, and marshall

[superdog551]

Marshall is a cool concept but way too strong. Maybe if it forced only one lynch it would be less OP

[MarsGodofWar]

Kidnapper –– no mafia jailors.
Sniper –– would prefer if it were astral. generally mafia doesn't need another kill –– tmk is what i care about more.
Agent –– i agree this role should be tested and added.
Auditor –– i don't like vanillaizers and never will.
Judge –– interesting concept, but it needs retooling.
Marshall –– too powerful. needs major fixing.

overall these roles have been balanced for SC2 Mafia. Town of Salem has moved on from its SC2 roots since then. If you want me to balance these roles based on basic concept and name alone I'll do that, otherwise, /support for Agent only, and /anti-nom kidnapper, auditor, and marshall

So a Sniper can randomly traverse through the Astral realm and take someone out with an Astral attack? Don't take the logic out of this game, please. Besides, not a lot of difference between an Unstoppable and an Astral Attack.

No reason for there to not be a Mafia Jailor counterpart. Kidnapper is far less powerful than the Town Jailor. Mafia killing roles should always be less powerful than Town Killings and Mafia Deception and Support roles should be more powerful than Town Equivalents

Please explain why you dont like vanillaizers. Auditor is very balanced and losing your attributes is better than dying.

[syjfwbaobfwl]

Kidnapper –– no mafia jailors.
Sniper –– would prefer if it were astral. generally mafia doesn't need another kill –– tmk is what i care about more.
Agent –– i agree this role should be tested and added.
Auditor –– i don't like vanillaizers and never will.
Judge –– interesting concept, but it needs retooling.
Marshall –– too powerful. needs major fixing.

overall these roles have been balanced for SC2 Mafia. Town of Salem has moved on from its SC2 roots since then. If you want me to balance these roles based on basic concept and name alone I'll do that, otherwise, /support for Agent only, and /anti-nom kidnapper, auditor, and marshall

So a Sniper can randomly traverse through the Astral realm and take someone out with an Astral attack? Don't take the logic out of this game, please. Besides, not a lot of difference between an Unstoppable and an Astral Attack.

No reason for there to not be a Mafia Jailor counterpart. Kidnapper is far less powerful than the Town Jailor. Mafia killing roles should always be less powerful than Town Killings and Mafia Deception and Support roles should be more powerful than Town Equivalents

Please explain why you dont like vanillaizers. Auditor is very balanced and losing your attributes is better than dying.

astral means that its not counted as a direct visit, so it ignores LO, bg, trapper, tracker and some other roles

[Brilliand]

Please explain why you dont like vanillaizers. Auditor is very balanced and losing your attributes is better than dying.

Alex explained what's wrong with vanillaizers. IMO that explanation is sufficient.

[MarsGodofWar]

Please explain why you dont like vanillaizers. Auditor is very balanced and losing your attributes is better than dying.

Alex explained what's wrong with vanillaizers. IMO that explanation is sufficient.

It's one of the most balanced roles suggested and losing your attributes is better then dying. There's nothing special about being able to push one button at night and getting some feedback off it. This game is about communicating and deception; scum reading and good discussion should be more important then having an active abilities. Anyway it's clear you're fucking delisiuonal seeing as you /Voted Kleptomaniac by Ezradekezra in the concept poll which is literally one of the worse roles ever suggested. It's just a daytime Witch with Consigliere attributes, nothing innovative or original about it. Seeing as Kleptomaniac has the 2nd most votes it's clear that no one here has any idea what a good role should be

[Brilliand]

Anyway it's clear you're fucking delisiuonal seeing as you /Voted Kleptomaniac by Ezradekezra in the concept poll which is literally one of the worse roles ever suggested. It's just a daytime Witch with Consigliere attributes, nothing innovative or original about it. Seeing as Kleptomaniac has the 2nd most votes it's clear that no one here has any idea what a good role should be

I find that role interesting because it has the ability to copy Transporter, which Witch can't do. It also can double-up the effects of various evil roles, which may or many not compensate for losing the ability to roleblock Town roles - we'll have to see.

Regardless, you've no business reacting to being on the losing side of a vote by calling into question the legitimacy of the vote and the intelligence of everyone who voted contrary to your wishes. Play nice.

[superdog551]

Please explain why you dont like vanillaizers. Auditor is very balanced and losing your attributes is better than dying.

Alex explained what's wrong with vanillaizers. IMO that explanation is sufficient.

It's one of the most balanced roles suggested and losing your attributes is better then dying. There's nothing special about being able to push one button at night and getting some feedback off it. This game is about communicating and deception; scum reading and good discussion should be more important then having an active abilities. Anyway it's clear you're fucking delisiuonal seeing as you /Voted Kleptomaniac by Ezradekezra in the concept poll which is literally one of the worse roles ever suggested. It's just a daytime Witch with Consigliere attributes, nothing innovative or original about it. Seeing as Kleptomaniac has the 2nd most votes it's clear that no one here has any idea what a good role should be

I'd rather be dead than useless because at least then I could talk with a medium or a retributionist can use me. Nobody wants to have their role taken away, it's not fun. Nobody would want to play as an Auditor, because it does nothing fun. Nobody would want to play against it because then they do nothing fun.

Edit: Not that it really matters, this role is extremely overpowered anyway. It is a scum sided super-escort. It has three permanent roleblocks that go through roleblock immunity and can even roleblock roles that typically don't have the ability to be rbd like a medium. How did you decided that this role is one of the most balanced out there?

[syjfwbaobfwl]

the "its better than dying" is also not a good argument, because with that logic all killing roles are bad because they can kill, vanillazers are simply bad roles because they make the game boring for others, and also are boring to play as, it might be balanced, but its still a bad concept

[MarsGodofWar]

Anyway it's clear you're fucking delisiuonal seeing as you /Voted Kleptomaniac by Ezradekezra in the concept poll which is literally one of the worse roles ever suggested. It's just a daytime Witch with Consigliere attributes, nothing innovative or original about it. Seeing as Kleptomaniac has the 2nd most votes it's clear that no one here has any idea what a good role should be

I find that role interesting because it has the ability to copy Transporter, which Witch can't do. It also can double-up the effects of various evil roles, which may or many not compensate for losing the ability to roleblock Town roles - we'll have to see.

Regardless, you've no business reacting to being on the losing side of a vote by calling into question the legitimacy of the vote and the intelligence of everyone who voted contrary to your wishes. Play nice.

Meh I got plenty of business calling the legitimacy of the votes. When one of the worse roles almost has the top votes it tells me that people here have no idea wtf they're talking about. The second worse role (Bishop) also has way more votes than it deserves.

So you like the role because it can use Transporter? Stupid fucking reason. It's still a daytime Witch and BMG is never gonna add a role which is just a morph of another role. Simple solution allow Witch to use Transporter; possible ways it could work is by making the transporter trans himself with the person he's been forced to target.

Besides, I'm not on the losing side of the vote as my role Sniper is almost leading and so is Agent which is an idea I brought to life that cock507 has taken the credit for.

[superdog551]

Anyway it's clear you're fucking delisiuonal seeing as you /Voted Kleptomaniac by Ezradekezra in the concept poll which is literally one of the worse roles ever suggested. It's just a daytime Witch with Consigliere attributes, nothing innovative or original about it. Seeing as Kleptomaniac has the 2nd most votes it's clear that no one here has any idea what a good role should be

I find that role interesting because it has the ability to copy Transporter, which Witch can't do. It also can double-up the effects of various evil roles, which may or many not compensate for losing the ability to roleblock Town roles - we'll have to see.

Regardless, you've no business reacting to being on the losing side of a vote by calling into question the legitimacy of the vote and the intelligence of everyone who voted contrary to your wishes. Play nice.

Meh I got plenty of business calling the legitimacy of the votes. When one of the worse roles almost has the top votes it tells me that people here have no idea wtf they're talking about. The second worse role (Bishop) also has way more votes than it deserves.

So you like the role because it can use Transporter? Stupid fucking reason. It's still a daytime Witch and BMG is never gonna add a role which is just a morph of another role. Simple solution allow Witch to use Transporter; possible ways it could work is by making the transporter trans himself with the person he's been forced to target.

Besides, I'm not on the losing side of the vote as my role Sniper is almost leading and so is Agent which is an idea I brought to life that cock507 has taken the credit for.

Agent is hardly an original idea by either of you. The idea of a mafia LO/Tracker combo has been suggested so many times in the past.

[MarsGodofWar]

the "its better than dying" is also not a good argument, because with that logic all killing roles are bad because they can kill, vanillazers are simply bad roles because they make the game boring for others, and also are boring to play as, it might be balanced, but its still a bad concept

Meh don't twist my words, nothing was implied to suggest that killing roles would be bad. Your logic is flawed and you always seem to pull random delisiuonals out of your ass.

And Mafia isn't meant to be about having an active ability. It's meant to be about scum reading, deception and communication. There's plenty of ways to counter against Auditor and it fits a good purpose. Boohoo you get audited, suck it up and help town in other ways. It really isn't that big of a deal. Also, it would be fun to play as. Wiping a players attributes and pissing then off would be funny as fuck. Sure you can argue and say that it's not fun to play against, but you cannot say that it's not fun to play as

Please explain why you dont like vanillaizers. Auditor is very balanced and losing your attributes is better than dying.

Alex explained what's wrong with vanillaizers. IMO that explanation is sufficient.

It's one of the most balanced roles suggested and losing your attributes is better then dying. There's nothing special about being able to push one button at night and getting some feedback off it. This game is about communicating and deception; scum reading and good discussion should be more important then having an active abilities. Anyway it's clear you're fucking delisiuonal seeing as you /Voted Kleptomaniac by Ezradekezra in the concept poll which is literally one of the worse roles ever suggested. It's just a daytime Witch with Consigliere attributes, nothing innovative or original about it. Seeing as Kleptomaniac has the 2nd most votes it's clear that no one here has any idea what a good role should be

I'd rather be dead than useless because at least then I could talk with a medium or a retributionist can use me. Nobody wants to have their role taken away, it's not fun. Nobody would want to play as an Auditor, because it does nothing fun. Nobody would want to play against it because then they do nothing fun.

Edit: Not that it really matters, this role is extremely overpowered anyway. It is a scum sided super-escort. It has three permanent roleblocks that go through roleblock immunity and can even roleblock roles that typically don't have the ability to be rbd like a medium. How did you decided that this role is one of the most balanced out there?

Bringing up that Medium cannot be roleblocked is completely inrelavent; Medium cannot be roleblocked because they have no active abillites. You're acting like these no counters against this. I did mention that roles with night time defence cannot be audited and that Bodyguards can prevent an Audit. Netural Evil roles need to be more powerful then Mafia roles as NEs need to stand on their own

[MarsGodofWar]

Agent is hardly an original idea by either of you. The idea of a mafia LO/Tracker combo has been suggested so many times in the past.

Do you have to be one of those fucks that picks at one small comment I made? Also I never said it was my original idea you blind fuck, I said I brought it to life and cob stole the credit for bringing it to life