joaodasalmas wrote:Abilities: You can reveal yourself as the King Potato, and now you can't be voted.
superdog551 wrote:I don't play coven much but this SEEMS good to me, though I do have a concern. Either this role gets lucky and town mislynches their sacrifice or they have to actually push whoever they sacrifice... The problem comes when they push a mislynch as no matter what town will kill them. Town would know this role is a possibility so the second it pushes for someone to get killed it will either be executed or lynched next I feel. Also, even if a sacrifice gets lynched as soon as the ritualist kills the town knows they are in the game and will be more wary to push lynches hard which makes it harder for this role to get successful sacrifices.
I can't be sure that's how it would play out but I am just thinking about it in my head. It definitely needs a buff IMO, maybe rampage kills but idk without testing if that would be too powerful
alex1234321 wrote:superdog551 wrote:I don't play coven much but this SEEMS good to me, though I do have a concern. Either this role gets lucky and town mislynches their sacrifice or they have to actually push whoever they sacrifice... The problem comes when they push a mislynch as no matter what town will kill them. Town would know this role is a possibility so the second it pushes for someone to get killed it will either be executed or lynched next I feel. Also, even if a sacrifice gets lynched as soon as the ritualist kills the town knows they are in the game and will be more wary to push lynches hard which makes it harder for this role to get successful sacrifices.
I can't be sure that's how it would play out but I am just thinking about it in my head. It definitely needs a buff IMO, maybe rampage kills but idk without testing if that would be too powerful
It's not like Executioner where it needs one person to be lynched, so it can just pick quiet/scummy people and lightly push if any of them are accused. It's definitely UP but I doubt it's useless.
Assuming a 6 night game with lynches every day and random targets, the Ritualist could expect to get 1.4 kills (more if the Coven avoid killing sacrificed players). Either rampage attacks or double targeting would roughly double this number and put it at just under 0.5 KPN, which seems fair for a Coven role that relies on raw killing power. My issue with rampage attacks is that they're swingy and could encourage the Ritualist to sacrifice and push a fellow Coven member. Allowing it to target Coven roles makes it more powerful and wouldn't cause major problems since a 1f1 would be bad for Coven, but a rampage could change this. Double sacrifices (sacrificing two players but still only killing one) could get boring but wouldn't have the problems of a rampage.
joaodasalmas wrote:Abilities: You can reveal yourself as the King Potato, and now you can't be voted.
Parallax7 wrote:Definitely think there needs to be a global notification the lynched player was sacrificed. Apart from that, I like the concept.
alex1234321 wrote:Parallax7 wrote:Definitely think there needs to be a global notification the lynched player was sacrificed. Apart from that, I like the concept.
Why would that matter? It's just a single kill.
Parallax7 wrote:alex1234321 wrote:Parallax7 wrote:Definitely think there needs to be a global notification the lynched player was sacrificed. Apart from that, I like the concept.
Why would that matter? It's just a single kill.
For counter-play, increasing KPN in a game like Mafia is potentially very swingy in nature.
alex1234321 wrote:I'm gonna take a stab at making a Coven role. This is my first one ever. It's going to be a Coven Executioner because why not.
Role Name:
Ritualist
Role Alignment:
Coven Evil
Abilities:
Sacrifice two players every night.
Attributes:
If a sacrificed player is lynched, you may deal a basic attack against one player the following night.
Sacrifices are permanent.
With the Necronomicon, you have the option to deal a basic attack against your target instead of sacrificing them.
Goal:
Kill all who would oppose the Coven.
Win Conditions:
Same as Coven
Additional Information:
Multitasking is allowed.
Soulshade55r wrote:When compared to certain coven roles like poisoner who will always have a consistent KPN of 1 (but delayed) it's pretty weak. This in theory has a 0.5 KPN without Necronomicon if played perfectly.
Also the Necronomicon is one of the worst in the game.
I feel like the current state of this role would be "oh ffs we wanted a Pm or Posioner ect. Instead of oh cool a Ritualist.
Coven have plenty of issues as a faction but i think a lot of it can be fixed and needs to be addressed before making new roles.
But the concept is kind of interesting
alex1234321 wrote:Soulshade55r wrote:When compared to certain coven roles like poisoner who will always have a consistent KPN of 1 (but delayed) it's pretty weak. This in theory has a 0.5 KPN without Necronomicon if played perfectly.
Also the Necronomicon is one of the worst in the game.
I feel like the current state of this role would be "oh ffs we wanted a Pm or Posioner ect. Instead of oh cool a Ritualist.
Coven have plenty of issues as a faction but i think a lot of it can be fixed and needs to be addressed before making new roles.
But the concept is kind of interesting
Since it can multitask, it can get up to 1 KPN by having a sacrifice get lynched every day. In one of my earlier posts I calculated that average KPN would be somewhere in the vicinity of 0.5 or maybe slightly below.
The necro ability gives it a floor of 1 KPN, and it can get more kills if an earlier sacrifice is lynched. Compared to Medusa for example, it has higher kill potential but a weaker attack. Its necro ability is strictly stronger than Poisoner, which only gets a basic delayed attack and never can get more than 1 KPN.
I agree that Coven needs to be fixed. But the concept of a faction that relies on kill power isn't fundamentally broken. If all of the existing roles were fixed, the faction would no longer have any major issues. Plus, making new Coven roles could make the DLC less dead and would make it more worthwhile for BMG to fix the existing Coven roles.
Soulshade55r wrote:Kpn for coven generally is all over the place depending on what roles spawn I obviously think poisoner is the worst offender while Necromancer/Pm are fairly balanced.
The entire ability of this role is to currently predict a lynch and gain a kill for that prediction which is pretty weak for a coven role epically when a lot of the other coven have support or deception abilities
Ezradekezra wrote:It's a cool concept, although I have a few issues.
The first is that the term "sacrifice" doesn't really make sense because the target doesn't die. Maybe something like "curse" would work better?
The other is that double-targeting and permanent sacrifices seems a bit OP in my opinion. I would suggest either only have the sacrifices last for a day or two or restrict it to a single sacrifice per night.
alex1234321 wrote:I'm gonna take a stab at making a Coven role. This is my first one ever. It's going to be a Coven Executioner because why not.
Role Name:
Ritualist
Role Alignment:
Coven Evil
Abilities:
Curse two players every night.
Attributes:
If a cursed player is lynched, you may deal a basic rampage attack against one player the following night.
All players are notified when a cursed player is lynched.
Curses are permanent.
With the Necronomicon, you may deal a basic rampage attack against someone regardless of whether a cursed person was lynched.
Goal:
Kill all who would oppose the Coven.
Win Conditions:
Same as Coven
Additional Information:
Multitasking is allowed even with the Necronomicon.
ak521 wrote:I think this is a great role however I'd suggest a nerf; either
1) Don't allow multi tasking. After the successful lynch, allow a rampage but not another curse.
or optimally do
2) Decrease the curse to one per night.
ak521 wrote:Along with this I'd suggest a buff
1) Upon lynching a cursed target, gain Basic Defense the upcoming night.
Protects against vigilantes but not jailors.
ak521 wrote:Finally in add'l info I would add
1) You cannot curse your Coven teammates
If this is how it works, of course.
In most cases it will be either the Ritualist or Coven teammates pushing a cursed target. This makes it really obvious who is evil, which is a limitation on the KPN I think is clever.
Really good concept regardless, would love to hear your thoughts on my suggestions.
ak521 wrote:Also, what would investigative results be?
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