Firefighter (Town Protective)

Suggest new roles or changes to current roles for the game here.

Re: Firefighter (Town Protective)

Postby Soulshade55r » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:07 pm

ElderSivart wrote:VH was a Kickstarter role.
I don't think many (active) people here on the forums think it's well-balanced.

I certainly don't. It suffers from the same problems Spy had when it could read maf chat and it's a hard-counter, which is just awful.


SPY is still terrible it's the most disgusting non coven role even more then r-r-ret :maniac: :maniac: :maniac: :maniac: :maniac:
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Re: Firefighter (Town Protective)

Postby Brilliand » Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:53 pm

Mace8937 wrote:
Brilliand wrote:
Mace8937 wrote:This isn't a nerf, it's a well-needed buff so that it can potentially save more than just one


So I misread the role? I thought you said it would save one person from the ignite at the time of the ignite, but now it's sounding like your version removes the douse on the person he visits.

If so, then this is exactly the old role that was put on the old (but stickied) list of "roles not to make", which is kind of hilarious.

For reference, here's where Helicooler got that list that he posted (that he really should have put quote tags around): viewtopic.php?p=2830319#p2830319

For reference, I was around when Orangeandblack5 made the original "Roles Not To Make" Post.
Don't cite the deep magic to me witch, I was there when it was written.
So heck off I know what I'm doing.


Then pray tell, why would you repost exactly this same role that was known way back then, and put in the "roles not to make" post?

Are you... uh... trying to sacrifice yourself to kill the "Vampire Hunter" role?
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Re: Firefighter (Town Protective)

Postby Mace8937 » Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:47 pm

Brilliand wrote:
Mace8937 wrote:
Brilliand wrote:
Mace8937 wrote:This isn't a nerf, it's a well-needed buff so that it can potentially save more than just one


So I misread the role? I thought you said it would save one person from the ignite at the time of the ignite, but now it's sounding like your version removes the douse on the person he visits.

If so, then this is exactly the old role that was put on the old (but stickied) list of "roles not to make", which is kind of hilarious.

For reference, here's where Helicooler got that list that he posted (that he really should have put quote tags around): viewtopic.php?p=2830319#p2830319

For reference, I was around when Orangeandblack5 made the original "Roles Not To Make" Post.
Don't cite the deep magic to me witch, I was there when it was written.
So heck off I know what I'm doing.


Then pray tell, why would you repost exactly this same role that was known way back then, and put in the "roles not to make" post?

Are you... uh... trying to sacrifice yourself to kill the "Vampire Hunter" role?

Possibly.
Or maybe I made this shit good role idea for a certain role idea tourney so I could argue for it and try to win with this obviously BackAssWards fucking shit ass amazing role.
I think its time for a fucking Crusade

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Re: Firefighter (Town Protective)

Postby Brilliand » Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:11 am

Mace8937 wrote:
Brilliand wrote:Then pray tell, why would you repost exactly this same role that was known way back then, and put in the "roles not to make" post?

Are you... uh... trying to sacrifice yourself to kill the "Vampire Hunter" role?

Possibly.
Or maybe I made this shit good role idea for a certain role idea tourney so I could argue for it and try to win with this obviously BackAssWards fucking shit ass amazing role.


That would be sweet. Good on ya for challenging yourself instead of using the best role you ever made like I did.

If only that tourney had enough contestants to actually happen...
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Re: Firefighter (Town Protective)

Postby Mace8937 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:27 am

Honestly?

This role is good enough to be in the game. If it needs nerfing or even buffing in any way to make it more balanced, I would love to hear your guys' thoughts
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Re: Firefighter (Town Protective)

Postby Soulshade55r » Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:17 pm

Helicooler wrote: Spoiler:
Mace8937 wrote:
Brilliand wrote:
Mace8937 wrote:This isn't a nerf, it's a well-needed buff so that it can potentially save more than just one


So I misread the role? I thought you said it would save one person from the ignite at the time of the ignite, but now it's sounding like your version removes the douse on the person he visits.

If so, then this is exactly the old role that was put on the old (but stickied) list of "roles not to make", which is kind of hilarious.

For reference, here's where Helicooler got that list that he posted (that he really should have put quote tags around): viewtopic.php?p=2830319#p2830319

For reference, I was around when Orangeandblack5 made the original "Roles Not To Make" Post.
Don't cite the deep magic to me witch, I was there when it was written.
So heck off I know what I'm doing.

Kombinator1991 wrote:NOPE.

Arso is hard as it is. We don't need to nerf it further by giving a counter role.

Vampires have a counter, give me a reason other than town being shit at finding evils that the game deserves VH


Well you should of done a https link.

Vampires are bad. Vampire hunters are bad. Dracula's Palace is basically a confirmed vamp win. The game is a hellscape already and if a firefighter is in the game it confirms there is an arsonist and shouldn't be in the game.

If you really read that post on role ideas you would know about the way you present it.


It's because the conversion mechanic with vampires Is unbalanced, you'd need to rework a lot of things to fix conversions

_

Mace8937 wrote:Honestly?

This role is good enough to be in the game. If it needs nerfing or even buffing in any way to make it more balanced, I would love to hear your guys' thoughts


So it doesn't revolve around one role

It would be nice if its abilities where useful aganist other roles.

The problem with counter roles it's only purpose is to keep a role from being overpowered and counter roles are generally boring.

A fix would be so it effects mafia and other Nks, but we practically have that with Doctors, doctors don't save ignites which is understandable but if you think ignite is too powerful maybe have doctors save them

I don't agree with that change but it's Far better then adding a counter role with one purpose
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Re: Firefighter (Town Protective)

Postby Mace8937 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:50 am

Soulshade55r wrote:
Helicooler wrote: Spoiler:
Mace8937 wrote:
Brilliand wrote:
Mace8937 wrote:This isn't a nerf, it's a well-needed buff so that it can potentially save more than just one


So I misread the role? I thought you said it would save one person from the ignite at the time of the ignite, but now it's sounding like your version removes the douse on the person he visits.

If so, then this is exactly the old role that was put on the old (but stickied) list of "roles not to make", which is kind of hilarious.

For reference, here's where Helicooler got that list that he posted (that he really should have put quote tags around): viewtopic.php?p=2830319#p2830319

For reference, I was around when Orangeandblack5 made the original "Roles Not To Make" Post.
Don't cite the deep magic to me witch, I was there when it was written.
So heck off I know what I'm doing.

Kombinator1991 wrote:NOPE.

Arso is hard as it is. We don't need to nerf it further by giving a counter role.

Vampires have a counter, give me a reason other than town being shit at finding evils that the game deserves VH


Well you should of done a https link.

Vampires are bad. Vampire hunters are bad. Dracula's Palace is basically a confirmed vamp win. The game is a hellscape already and if a firefighter is in the game it confirms there is an arsonist and shouldn't be in the game.

If you really read that post on role ideas you would know about the way you present it.


It's because the conversion mechanic with vampires Is unbalanced, you'd need to rework a lot of things to fix conversions

_

Mace8937 wrote:Honestly?

This role is good enough to be in the game. If it needs nerfing or even buffing in any way to make it more balanced, I would love to hear your guys' thoughts


So it doesn't revolve around one role

It would be nice if its abilities where useful aganist other roles.

The problem with counter roles it's only purpose is to keep a role from being overpowered and counter roles are generally boring.

A fix would be so it effects mafia and other Nks, but we practically have that with Doctors, doctors don't save ignites which is understandable but if you think ignite is too powerful maybe have doctors save them

I don't agree with that change but it's Far better then adding a counter role with one purpose


No it's staying a hardcounter :D
I think its time for a fucking Crusade

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Re: Firefighter (Town Protective)

Postby BeastlyNinja9 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:34 pm

Mace8937 wrote:
Jackparrot wrote:I do not think this would make a good role in-game as it only counters Arso, which does not need countering as it is the weakest role in the game.

/Nosupport

Doth VH counter-eth Vampire? I believe 't so. If said role shall be declined, I call out 'Hypocrisy!' to thine rulers in red text names.

Vampire is a team tho and an arsonist is solo
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Re: Firefighter (Town Protective)

Postby Mace8937 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:49 am

BeastlyNinja9 wrote:
Mace8937 wrote:
Jackparrot wrote:I do not think this would make a good role in-game as it only counters Arso, which does not need countering as it is the weakest role in the game.

/Nosupport

Doth VH counter-eth Vampire? I believe 't so. If said role shall be declined, I call out 'Hypocrisy!' to thine rulers in red text names.

Vampire is a team tho and an arsonist is solo

Mine point still stands. If the glove doth fit, you must acquit'eth.

(Still tho, VH and Vamps somehow work. So this role is basically a VH. So if VH should be in the game, so should this)
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Re: Firefighter (Town Protective)

Postby Flake » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:22 am

The role is overdependent on the existence of one role in order to have any utility; if the role (Arsonist) doesn't exist at any point, Firefighter just becomes a Citizen, and Citizens are not good in ToS due to ToS' lack of dependence on non-linear discussion and overdependence on night actions. This is especially a prevalent issue considering that in all game modes (bar Custom for which any role could potentially have confirmed existence and Rainbow which barely anyone plays), either Arsonist is not guaranteed to exist, or cannot exist at all.

Vampire Hunter is a garbage role for the same reason, except it can actually be argued that it's existence is warranted more so than Firefighter; Dracula's Palace is a somewhat prevalent mode for which Vampires are guaranteed to spawn. Also, when Vampires do not exist in any given game state, Vampire Hunter doesn't become a straight up Citizen like Firefighter does, it becomes a one-shot Vigilante. It can also be argued that a counter for Vampires might be necessary in some setups where Vampires are overwhelmingly powerful (which can easily happen), but a setup in which Arsonists are going to be overwhelmingly powerful is much less likely.
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Re: Firefighter (Town Protective)

Postby Brilliand » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:34 pm

Flake wrote:It can also be argued that a counter for Vampires might be necessary in some setups where Vampires are overwhelmingly powerful (which can easily happen), but a setup in which Arsonists are going to be overwhelmingly powerful is much less likely.


In a setup where Arsonists are overwhelmingly powerful (3 Arsonist All Any game?), the Firefighter probably won't be able to do much to stem the tide.
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Re: Firefighter (Town Protective)

Postby Mace8937 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:03 pm

Flake wrote:The role is overdependent on the existence of one role in order to have any utility; if the role (Arsonist) doesn't exist at any point, Firefighter just becomes a Citizen, and Citizens are not good in ToS due to ToS' lack of dependence on non-linear discussion and overdependence on night actions. This is especially a prevalent issue considering that in all game modes (bar Custom for which any role could potentially have confirmed existence and Rainbow which barely anyone plays), either Arsonist is not guaranteed to exist, or cannot exist at all.

Vampire Hunter is a garbage role for the same reason, except it can actually be argued that it's existence is warranted more so than Firefighter; Dracula's Palace is a somewhat prevalent mode for which Vampires are guaranteed to spawn. Also, when Vampires do not exist in any given game state, Vampire Hunter doesn't become a straight up Citizen like Firefighter does, it becomes a one-shot Vigilante. It can also be argued that a counter for Vampires might be necessary in some setups where Vampires are overwhelmingly powerful (which can easily happen), but a setup in which Arsonists are going to be overwhelmingly powerful is much less likely.

No u
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Re: Firefighter (Town Protective)

Postby Brilliand » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:29 pm

Mace8937 wrote:Flake is overdependent on the existence of one role in order to have any utility; if the role (Arsonist) doesn't exist at any point, Flake just becomes a Citizen, and Citizens are not good in ToS due to ToS' lack of dependence on non-linear discussion and overdependence on night actions. This is especially a prevalent issue considering that in all game modes (bar Custom for which any role could potentially have confirmed existence and Rainbow which barely anyone plays), either Arsonist is not guaranteed to exist, or cannot exist at all.

Vampire Hunter is a garbage role for the same reason, except it can actually be argued that it's existence is warranted more so than Flake; Dracula's Palace is a somewhat prevalent mode for which Vampires are guaranteed to spawn. Also, when Vampires do not exist in any given game state, Vampire Hunter doesn't become a straight up Citizen like Flake does, it becomes a one-shot Vigilante. It can also be argued that a counter for Vampires might be necessary in some setups where Vampires are overwhelmingly powerful (which can easily happen), but a setup in which Arsonists are going to be overwhelmingly powerful is much less likely.


These are strong accusations.
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Re: Firefighter (Town Protective)

Postby Flake » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:16 pm

Mace8937 wrote:
Flake wrote:The role is overdependent on the existence of one role in order to have any utility; if the role (Arsonist) doesn't exist at any point, Firefighter just becomes a Citizen, and Citizens are not good in ToS due to ToS' lack of dependence on non-linear discussion and overdependence on night actions. This is especially a prevalent issue considering that in all game modes (bar Custom for which any role could potentially have confirmed existence and Rainbow which barely anyone plays), either Arsonist is not guaranteed to exist, or cannot exist at all.

Vampire Hunter is a garbage role for the same reason, except it can actually be argued that it's existence is warranted more so than Firefighter; Dracula's Palace is a somewhat prevalent mode for which Vampires are guaranteed to spawn. Also, when Vampires do not exist in any given game state, Vampire Hunter doesn't become a straight up Citizen like Firefighter does, it becomes a one-shot Vigilante. It can also be argued that a counter for Vampires might be necessary in some setups where Vampires are overwhelmingly powerful (which can easily happen), but a setup in which Arsonists are going to be overwhelmingly powerful is much less likely.

No u

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Re: Firefighter (Town Protective)

Postby NyanCats4Days » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:58 pm

Why would you make a role that is literally on the list of roles NOT to make.

/nosupport
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Re: Firefighter (Town Protective)

Postby Mace8937 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:49 am

This thread has been a fleeting example, of how poorly moderated this subforum is.
If the RI Mod team were atleast mildly adequate, this thread would've been removed a week or 2 ago.
However, it has not been removed, and this shows the RI Mod team's skill, or lack thereof.
I believe we need new management.

Good day.
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Re: Firefighter (Town Protective)

Postby NyanCats4Days » Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:35 pm

your sayin cause your post wasn't deleted we have bad moderators?
So did you make a bad post on purpose or what???
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Re: Firefighter (Town Protective)

Postby Flake » Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:37 pm

Mace8937 wrote:This thread has been a fleeting example, of how poorly moderated this subforum is.
If the RI Mod team were atleast mildly adequate, this thread would've been removed a week or 2 ago.
However, it has not been removed, and this shows the RI Mod team's skill, or lack thereof.
I believe we need new management.

Good day.

A main incentive of the RI subforum is for people to have the freedom to share their ideas, and deleting threads in RI irrespective of whether the role is deemed to be good or bad is actively discouraging that

If it were the case that role ideas deemed to be bad would be deleted, then the overwhelming majority of threads in the RI subforum would be deleted, which obviously should not happen

Also good luck finding literally anyone competent and willing to moderate Role Ideas
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Re: Firefighter (Town Protective)

Postby Kirize12 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:56 pm

Flake wrote:
Mace8937 wrote:This thread has been a fleeting example, of how poorly moderated this subforum is.
If the RI Mod team were atleast mildly adequate, this thread would've been removed a week or 2 ago.
However, it has not been removed, and this shows the RI Mod team's skill, or lack thereof.
I believe we need new management.

Good day.

A main incentive of the RI subforum is for people to have the freedom to share their ideas, and deleting threads in RI irrespective of whether the role is deemed to be good or bad is actively discouraging that

If it were the case that role ideas deemed to be bad would be deleted, then the overwhelming majority of threads in the RI subforum would be deleted, which obviously should not happen

Also good luck finding literally anyone competent and willing to moderate Role Ideas

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Re: Firefighter (Town Protective)

Postby Brilliand » Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:42 am

Flake wrote:Also good luck finding literally anyone competent and willing to moderate Role Ideas


I see an announcement thread listing you as one of the people who are now Role Ideas moderators.

Are you not actually willing to moderate Role Ideas?
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Re: Firefighter (Town Protective)

Postby Chemist1422 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:41 am

Brilliand wrote:
Flake wrote:Also good luck finding literally anyone competent and willing to moderate Role Ideas


I see an announcement thread listing you as one of the people who are now Role Ideas moderators.

Are you not actually willing to moderate Role Ideas?

Flake stepped down from moderating a few weeks ago.
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Re: Firefighter (Town Protective)

Postby Mace8937 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:50 am

Chemist1422 wrote:
Brilliand wrote:
Flake wrote:Also good luck finding literally anyone competent and willing to moderate Role Ideas


I see an announcement thread listing you as one of the people who are now Role Ideas moderators.

Are you not actually willing to moderate Role Ideas?

Flake stepped down from moderating a few weeks ago.

Flake should visit r/suicidebywords

also.
Flake wrote:
Mace8937 wrote:This thread has been a fleeting example, of how poorly moderated this subforum is.
If the RI Mod team were atleast mildly adequate, this thread would've been removed a week or 2 ago.
However, it has not been removed, and this shows the RI Mod team's skill, or lack thereof.
I believe we need new management.

Good day.

A main incentive of the RI subforum is for people to have the freedom to share their ideas, and deleting threads in RI irrespective of whether the role is deemed to be good or bad is actively discouraging that

If it were the case that role ideas deemed to be bad would be deleted, then the overwhelming majority of threads in the RI subforum would be deleted, which obviously should not happen

Also good luck finding literally anyone competent and willing to moderate Role Ideas


Mace8937 wrote:
Brilliand wrote:
Mace8937 wrote:
Brilliand wrote:
Mace8937 wrote:This isn't a nerf, it's a well-needed buff so that it can potentially save more than just one


So I misread the role? I thought you said it would save one person from the ignite at the time of the ignite, but now it's sounding like your version removes the douse on the person he visits.

If so, then this is exactly the old role that was put on the old (but stickied) list of "roles not to make", which is kind of hilarious.

For reference, here's where Helicooler got that list that he posted (that he really should have put quote tags around): viewtopic.php?p=2830319#p2830319

For reference, I was around when Orangeandblack5 made the original "Roles Not To Make" Post.
Don't cite the deep magic to me witch, I was there when it was written.
So heck off I know what I'm doing.


Then pray tell, why would you repost exactly this same role that was known way back then, and put in the "roles not to make" post?

Are you... uh... trying to sacrifice yourself to kill the "Vampire Hunter" role?

Possibly.
Or maybe I made this shit good role idea for a certain role idea tourney so I could argue for it and try to win with this obviously BackAssWards fucking shit ass amazing role.
I think its time for a fucking Crusade

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Re: Firefighter (Town Protective)

Postby shadoweiner » Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:47 am

Mace8937 wrote:Role Name: Firefighter
Role Alignment: Town Protective
Abilities: Prevent a person to be ignited each night.
Attributes:
You can not be ignited.
You will know if your target was doused or ignited.
Win Conditions:
Wins with Town and Survivors

Goal: Lynch every criminal and evildoer

Investigation Results:
Sheriff-Not Suspicious

Investigator- BG/GF/Arso/FF

Consigliere-Your target saves people from fire. They must be a Firefighter


I feel like Arso is already hard enough of a role to play... Sorry for necropost
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Re: Firefighter (Town Protective)

Postby ZackTheMaf666 » Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:53 am

We don’t do firefighters. Just stop.
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Re: Firefighter (Town Protective)

Postby Mace8937 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 6:52 am

ZackTheMaf666 wrote:We don’t do firefighters. Just stop.

Fite me
I think its time for a fucking Crusade

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