Hitman (Neutral Chaos)

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Hitman (Neutral Chaos)

Postby Agux909 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:29 pm

Role Name:
Hitman

Role Alignment:
Neutral (Chaos)

Abilities:
- Choose someone at night to ASSASSINATE and to MANIPULATE their death cause. Select yourself instead to EVADE that night.

Attributes:
Attack: Basic
Defense: None

- You can't ASSASSINATE night 1.
- Players that die and were visited by you will only display the death cause you selected for them.
- EVADE grants POWERFUL defense that night and gives no message to anyone attacking you.
- You can only use EVADE 3 times. You can't EVADE and ASSASSINATE at the same time.
- From day 2 you will be given a list of 3 random Hit targets from any alignment. A target will randomly change if they die but weren't visited by you. Hit Targets can't be roles with permanent BASIC defense or higher, or the Survivor (Survivor being included is not final)

Notifications:

Night 1:
You are waiting for your hit list to arrive tomorrow.

Evasions left:
You have 3 evasions left.
-
You have 0 evasions left.

Evading:
You have decided to be on the defensive tonight.
-
You have instead decided to be on the defensive tonight.

Attacked when evading:
You were attacked but you dodged the attack!

Choosing a Target:
You have decided to assassinate Thomas Danforth tonight.
-
You have instead decided to assassinate William Hobbs tonight.

Killed by:
You were assassinated by a Hitman!
You have died!


Spy bugging your target:
Your target was attacked by a Hitman!

Spy bugging the Hitman and they are attacked:
Your target was attacked by a member of the mafia!
-
Your target was attacked by a serial killer!

Goal:
- Complete your Hit list, leave no Hit Target alive.

Win Conditions:
- You must assassinate 3 Targets from your Hit list.

Investigator Results:
Sheriff
- (You take no action at night): "You couldn't find any evidence of wrongdoing, your target seems innocent!"
- (You ASSASSINATE or EVADE at night): "Your target is suspicious!"
Investigator - Your target could be a Bodyguard, Godfather, Arsonist, Crusader or Hitman.
(Take note I'm not a hundred percent sure it would be balanced to include the Hitman on that group of Investigator's results. Only practice and testing once implemented could tell. This is only an example of how it would look if it was in that specific group)
Consigliere - Your target gets paid to kill specific targets at night. They must be the Hitman.

Achievements:
Rookie assassin - Win 1 game as Hitman
Death Dealer - Win 5 games as Hitman
Massacre Man - Win 10 games as Hitman
Genocide in a suit - Win 25 games as Hitman
Methodic killer - Assassinate 3 Hit targets in succession after day 2 as Hitman
Mc. Dodgerbullets - Survive 3 attacks by using EVADE at night as Hitman
Doubtful crime scene - As Hitman, assassinate a hit target and manipulate their death cause to look like they were killed by their same alignment.

Additional Information:
When choosing the target to assassinate at night, you will be prompted with an option box similar as the one the Hypnotist has.
You will have every single death cause to choose from to manipulate your victim's crime scene (including death by a Veteran or a Bodyguard, for example), with the exception of death by Medusa / Pestilence. If you don't select any option, it will be defaulted to show up as the first one on the list (that should be preselected).

When a Hitman is controlled and kills someone, the death cause will be notified as the one picked by the Hitman anyway. If the Hitman is controlled and kills a target on their hit list, it will still count. If the Hitman is controlled into themself, they will EVADE that night instead. If the Hitman is controlled into a player and selected to EVADE or to take no action that night, that player's death cause will be manipulated at random, giving a strong hint that there is indeed a Hitman in the match.

A Medium or a revived Townie are a counter to the Hitman manipulations since they can confirm a role died by a Hitman and not from the manipulated death cause. By communicating and playing smart, the town can very easily identify if there is a Hitman in the match.

If a target on your hit list somehow permanently gains BASIC or higher defense, the target will no longer fullfill the conditions to be on your hit list, and thus, will be randomly changed. Targets temporally gaining defense can still be Hitman targets.

Here is a little sketch to show how the MANIPULATION window would look in-game:

Manipulation Window


Lore:
In most jobs, you get famous for doing things right, but for the Hitman, getting famous is usually a sign that something went very wrong.
Famous contract killers are about as common as your hero-of-the-town Sheriff. These professional assassins may have been good at their jobs, but the only reason you know of them is because they slipped up and got caught. For every one professional who makes headlines, there are who knows how many more operating quietly, anonymously, and efficiently. Leaving no trace of their work as their own, earning their food and living each day by getting rid of someone's else problem, taking home dirty bags full of blood-stained money.
Last edited by Agux909 on Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:52 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Hitman (Neutral Chaos)

Postby Explosiv3M4st3r » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:16 am

So I have a few questions:

1. How many targets will the Hitman be given?

2. If a target starts with no defense and gain basic defense, will the Hitman be given a new target?

3. What are the Hitman's base power/toughness (I expect Atk is basic and defense is none)

Just some food for thought.
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Re: Hitman (Neutral Chaos)

Postby Agux909 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:09 am

First of all, thanks for reading and considering my idea enough to respond with your own doubts about the Hitman.

To answer your questions:

Explosiv3M4st3r wrote:1. How many targets will the Hitman be given?

From day 2, the Hitman will be given 3 targets. They can be given more targets replacing targets that died and weren't visited by them, but the goal will always be assassinating 3 "Hit targets".
E.g.:
[n2] Hit Targets: Sarah Good, William Phips, John Proctor (You have decided to assassinate John Proctor tonight.) (0/3 hit targets assassinated)
[d3] Sarah Good and John proctor died (Sarah was killed by mafia and John by Hitman, but manipulated to look like they were killed by an Ambusher)
[n3] Hit Targets: William Phips, Samuel Parris (1/3 hit targets assassinated)
and so on...

As you can see, you killed one of your targets and the other one died but not by you, so you still have to kill 2 more targets, one of them just changed to someone else.

Explosiv3M4st3r wrote:2. If a target starts with no defense and gain basic defense, will the Hitman be given a new target?

Yes, if the target gains by any means PERMANENT basic or higher defense, they no longer fullfill their conditions to be Hitman targets (just like being dead), and thus they will be changed. Targets temporally gaining basic or higher defense will not change (with maybe the exception of the survivor, but that's open to change). I just edited the main post to reflect this point, good question!

Explosiv3M4st3r wrote:3. What are the Hitman's base power/toughness (I expect Atk is basic and defense is none)

Yes and yes. The Hitman has BASIC attack and their defense is NONE. The only exception is when using EVADE, which grants them POWERFUL defense for that night.
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Re: Hitman (Neutral Chaos)

Postby foggyartsit3 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:41 pm

/support
I'm Chai Latte and I am (for the most part) non toxic, so the majority of my reports are of me being the literal dumbest member of a lobby, sometimes I do good tho. I'm kinda good as mafia, I guess I've got that going for me

Have you seen my acolyte?
Name: Monty
Height: 5'6"
Betrayal ability: Immense
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Re: Hitman (Neutral Chaos)

Postby Mystoc » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:52 pm

- From day 2 you will be given a list of random Hit targets from any alignment. A target will randomly change if they die but weren't visited by you. Hit Targets can't be roles with permanent BASIC defense or higher, or the Survivor (Survivor being included is not final)


i see the word random twice... random is never good

how long is the list how many people must die?

either way its to random and unfair, if it has to target mainly evils, for evil side

this is just an OP Exe who can kill their own targets
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Re: Hitman (Neutral Chaos)

Postby Agux909 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:50 pm

I'm going to ignore the fact that you most likely didn't read the entire post (given that you don't know "how long" the Hitman's Hit-list is, even though it's stated clearly in the Win Condition section, and also pointed out later as an answer to another post with a similar question, with exemplification) and will constructively respond to your issues with it.

Mystoc wrote:i see the word random twice... random is never good

Mystoc wrote:either way its to random and unfair, if it has to target mainly evils, for evil side


Random isn't unfair. You're not targeting any team specifically. In an All Any match where, for example, there is 4 Town, 2 NK, 1 NE, 4 Maf, 3 Coven, what's the problem with the targets being: 1 town, 1 ne, and 1 coven? If RNG decides it has to be all Coven or Mafia, remember this: the Hitman cannot attack day 1, and can be killed at night by literally anything unless they're evading (which will cost them 1 night and 1 EVADE use).
The Hitman is supposed to stay hidden by strategically disrupting the information regarding deaths, and their agenda limits them to assassinate specific targets in the order they deem more adecuate. Unlike the Pirate who can side with an alignment and make a living hell of others by killing whoever they want, the Hitman will most likely lose if they don't hurry to kill their Hit-targets before raising suspicion.

Mystoc wrote:how long is the list how many people must die?


(Stated in the OP) The Hit-List has 3 (Three) Hit-Targets. Never more than 3. Your targets may change given some circumstances (Stated in the OP), but the amount you have to Assassinate to fullfill your goal and win is always 3, no more, no less.

(I edited the Attributes section in the main post adding that the Hitman receives 3 random hit-targets, since it being stated in the Win Condition seems to not be enough)

Mystoc wrote:this is just an OP Exe who can kill their own targets



Hitman couldn't be more different than Executioner. I don't know where you draw your similarities. But here we go with no-brainer differences anyway:

.Executioner has PERMANENT basic defense at night =/= Hitman doesn't have defense, unless they decide to EVADE that night, which makes them go out of their way towards their goal while making them suceptible to be caught by a sheriff.
.Executioner needs to lynch a single target at day and can't lose by night unless attacked by powerful or higher attacks =/= Hitman needs to ASSASSINATE 3 targets by themself at NIGHT, can die and immediately lose to every single type of attack. Lynching doesn't count towards their goal, they have to personally ASSASSINATE Hit-Targets.
.Executioner doesn't have any ability besides being immune at night =/= Hitman can attack and change the death result of their victim. Or evade that night and dodge attacks. Or stay home and be undetectable to Sheriffs.

The only single common thing about these 2 is having targets. But even the targets are selected differently, so it's kind of an irrelevant point.
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Re: Hitman (Neutral Chaos)

Postby Mystoc » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:27 pm

Agux909 wrote:I'm going to ignore the fact that you most likely didn't read the entire post (given that you don't know "how long" the Hitman's Hit-list is, even though it's stated clearly in the Win Condition section, and also pointed out later as an answer to another post with a similar question, with exemplification) and will constructively respond to your issues with it.

i looked under goal it wasn't there most people have goal and win condtion be the same thing so i missed it


Random isn't unfair. You're not targeting any team specifically. In an All Any match where, for example, there is 4 Town, 2 NK, 1 NE, 4 Maf, 3 Coven, what's the problem with the targets being: 1 town, 1 ne, and 1 coven? If RNG decides it has to be all Coven or Mafia, remember this: the Hitman cannot attack day 1, and can be killed at night by literally anything unless they're evading (which will cost them 1 night and 1 EVADE use).


you just used ALL ANY has a reason that random isnt unfair, ALL ANY is the definition of unfair cause its completey random... like your role...

explain what happens in a ranked match where all its targets are mafia? how is that fair that randomness is deciding all mafia must die?



The Hitman is supposed to stay hidden by strategically disrupting the information regarding deaths, and their agenda limits them to assassinate specific targets in the order they deem more adecuate. Unlike the Pirate who can side with an alignment and make a living hell of others by killing whoever they want, the Hitman will most likely lose if they don't hurry to kill their Hit-targets before raising suspicion.

this doesnt choose to side with anyone its goal is just kill 3 RANDOM people it can be done by n3 and win and good odds u dont die in just three nights, this role doesnt have a reason to side with anyone, pirate kills once this kills many times so it much more disruptive all based on randomness this role just auto sides with which side its random list has more of mafia or town, it doesn't have a choice its random list decides for them






Hitman couldn't be more different than Executioner. I don't know where you draw your similarities. But here we go with no-brainer differences anyway:

.Executioner has PERMANENT basic defense at night =/= Hitman doesn't have defense, unless they decide to EVADE that night, which makes them go out of their way towards their goal while making them suceptible to be caught by a sheriff.
.Executioner needs to lynch a single target at day and can't lose by night unless attacked by powerful or higher attacks =/= Hitman needs to ASSASSINATE 3 targets by themself at NIGHT, can die and immediately lose to every single type of attack. Lynching doesn't count towards their goal, they have to personally ASSASSINATE Hit-Targets.
.Executioner doesn't have any ability besides being immune at night =/= Hitman can attack and change the death result of their victim. Or evade that night and dodge attacks. Or stay home and be undetectable to Sheriffs.

The only single common thing about these 2 is having targets. But even the targets are selected differently, so it's kind of an irrelevant point.



exe needs others help to do their goal though and is based on deciet, this role just needs to live to n3
peoples most common reason something int a better version of a role is removing its defense, this role can still self 3 times so it does have an defense its basicly exe who is more offensive but gives some but not all defense thats not equivalent at all

also cant this role get lucky and just have their target die and not kill themselves? whats the reasoning behind the hitman having to do the kill if the target still ends up dead?
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Re: Hitman (Neutral Chaos)

Postby Agux909 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:47 pm

Mystoc wrote:exe needs others help to do their goal though and is based on deciet, this role just needs to live to n3

Again, you are not reading things carefully.
Hitman cannot attack n1, so if they were lucky to be able to kill all their Hit-Targets each day, that would lead them to n4.
EVADE makes the Hitman immune, but they can't attack the night they EVADE. It's not a permanent defense and it takes away their attack.
Also, they are not RB immune so If they are roleblocked they can be killed even if they selected to EVADE that night.
Mystoc wrote:peoples most common reason something int a better version of a role is removing its defense, this role can still self 3 times so it does have an defense its basicly exe who is more offensive but gives some but not all defense thats not equivalent at all

My reasoning for it not being just a better version of a role isn't behind "removing the defense". It's behind my entire first post which indicates all the differences and unique aspects compared to any existing roles in the game. In my opinion it would do a good job as causing Chaos to the entire town, which is the main purpose as NC. I won't say it's the best and most original idea ever created, because it's not. But neither it is a copy or a "better version" of an Executioner. It is also my first idea ever imagined for Town of Salem so please don't put me in the same boat with the "people" that you think has a common reasoning about things, I am myself.
Mystoc wrote:also cant this role get lucky and just have their target die and not kill themselves? whats the reasoning behind the hitman having to do the kill if the target still ends up dead?

The reasoning behind the Hitman having to kill by themself to complete their GOALS is MECHANIC>LORE. It's their MECHANIC, that's how it works for them (what's the reasoning behind a transporter making a vigilante kill themself?). If it was the other way around, it would be easier to win. And it then would indeed be more like the Executioner.

- EDIT -

Since this little discussion is going nowhere, I'm just gonna stop it right here. I've quoted every issue you had and tried to apply my reasoning behind it all to explain it to you, without ignoring any of your points. But at least from my point of view it seems like you're just complaining for the sake of complaining, without even reading or thinking things thoroughly.
So, you have your own opinion about my idea being bad and unbalanced and I respect that, but since you won't change my mind nor I will change yours I will stop this nonsense argument with you. Let others comment in a more constructive manner and stop unnecesarily bumping the thread each day please.
Last edited by Agux909 on Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Hitman (Neutral Chaos)

Postby Mystoc » Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:36 pm

you ingored all my comments on the randomness of the role,

so fine live to n4 is all it has to do

too random and causes to much chaos, just cause thats the alignments doesn't mean the role can ingore balance
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