D:M@HK Game 1 (Murderer Win)

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Re: D:M@HK Game 1 (Murderer Win)

Postby watchme1 » Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:37 pm

I'll be completely honest.

I saw Chemist signalling it was multi/uzay and with the failed guess of balloon/sombero I thought it could've been multi as murderer and uzay as the accomplice.

Yea I played bad I'll admit it. But taking out state of the scene over lets say time of crime is a thonk at least in my opinion cause state of scene removed arson/explosives/detonation as any form of weapon compared with noon which really removes almost nothing, which was why I had tinfoiled the reason for removing X scene tile was cause we didn't need it anymore.
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Re: D:M@HK Game 1 (Murderer Win)

Postby watchme1 » Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:39 pm

I'll be down to play it again but I'll try not to int myself too hard this time. I guess I got too tunneled on the clues being having to be attributed strictly to certain scene tiles etc.
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Re: D:M@HK Game 1 (Murderer Win)

Postby dolphina » Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:41 pm

honestly that criticism is totally acceptable
i agree i was shit
I'm not even gonna deny it at this point

Congrats murderers, you played really well
I think uzay pushed the point a little too hard but its alright

I dont think i get the right to criticize tho to be perfectly honest
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Re: D:M@HK Game 1 (Murderer Win)

Postby Rickdaily12 » Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:44 pm

watchme1 wrote:I saw Chemist signalling it was multi/uzay and with the failed guess of balloon/sombero I thought it could've been multi as murderer and uzay as the accomplice.

Yea I played bad I'll admit it. But taking out state of the scene over lets say time of crime is a thonk at least in my opinion cause state of scene removed arson/explosives/detonation as any form of weapon compared with noon which really removes almost nothing, which was why I had tinfoiled the reason for removing X scene tile was cause we didn't need it anymore.

At the time, people were screaming "it's watch it's watch it's watch it's watch it's watch it's watch it's watch" from the moment I placed all the tiles down. The only thing anyone said about "Time of Death = Noon" was "welp, I guess it isn't the flashlight", which was the damned closest thing I could get anyone to hint that you weren't involved in the murder.

It's a playground. That's why it was Disorderly- who's ever heard of a "tidy" playground? It's one of those crappy Scene tiles that if I were to put anything else down, it'd be useless at best, and misleading at worst, so into the trash it went. The moment EvilD cleared you, I got rid of the only tile that actually got anyone to doubt that you might have not committed the crime.

I saw Chemist signalling it was multi/uzay and with the failed guess of balloon/sombero I thought it could've been multi as murderer and uzay as the accomplice.

She told you that she thought Multi's items didn't fit.

Before that, her remaining suspects were "dolph/Uzay".

After that, she used her badge on Uzay.

And yet, you still let him trick you with this:

UzayAltay wrote:
watchme1 wrote:ok but curling stone, would you put accident over a lets say severe injury?

What reason do you have to have a curling stone in a playground?

There is no place to see curling stone in place choices so playground make sense.
I am not 100% sure about the first but I believe accident is more unique, we can think both bat (and other things, this is an example) and curling stone when severe injury is on the table but we cannot think most of other things when thinking curling stone still. That makes an incentive to pick accident imo.


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Re: D:M@HK Game 1 (Murderer Win)

Postby watchme1 » Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:46 pm

Once again as you can see, I think only 1 step ahead with the scene tiles lol.
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Re: D:M@HK Game 1 (Murderer Win)

Postby Rickdaily12 » Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:55 pm

Anyway, for those that may have been interested in playing another round, I might host another game sometime on ToS in the foreseeable future.

For now, though, I've got signups open on MU if anyone was down to play again:

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ng-Signups
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Re: D:M@HK Game 1 (Murderer Win)

Postby Multiuniverse » Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:42 pm

I was helping the detective because if/when uzay is brought up as a suspect I could then step in and argue against the case on him

If I didn't also argue on the other things then it'd look pretty sus if I defend only uzay (and thus people can infer that I'm the accomplice and uzay is the murderer)

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Re: D:M@HK Game 1 (Murderer Win)

Postby CheezePie » Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:00 pm

...i only thought of balloon/pen as a joke lol
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Re: D:M@HK Game 1 (Murderer Win)

Postby Rickdaily12 » Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:26 pm

Multiuniverse wrote:I was helping the detective because if/when uzay is brought up as a suspect I could then step in and argue against the case on him

If I didn't also argue on the other things then it'd look pretty sus if I defend only uzay (and thus people can infer that I'm the accomplice and uzay is the murderer)

I disagree on principle in that this is not one of those games where associatives are easy to spot. Unless your arguments suck something fierce, the attention is usually more on possible item combinations than they are on "if X is scum then who is their buddy".

It's surprising how much being an open wolf in this game ends up being less problematic than in other games.

CheezePie wrote:...i only thought of balloon/pen as a joke lol
dangit

And yet, you were still objectively the closest person to catching the killer, so.
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Re: D:M@HK Game 1 (Murderer Win)

Postby UzayAltay » Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:57 am

GG.
Am I misunderstanding or is the murder literally, murderer blowing up the baloon with the pen when victim was on monkey bars, causing victim to fall and die?
Also sth sth I rolled scum in Rick's game again.
TBH at one point from the tiles I thought murderer blow up the baloon and victim had hearth attack due to it.
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Re: D:M@HK Game 1 (Murderer Win)

Postby watchme1 » Wed Apr 28, 2021 2:09 am

UzayAltay wrote:GG.
Am I misunderstanding or is the murder literally, murderer blowing up the baloon with the pen when victim was on monkey bars, causing victim to fall and die?
Also sth sth I rolled scum in Rick's game again.
TBH at one point from the tiles I thought murderer blow up the baloon and victim had hearth attack due to it.


That's how I understood the story. I got too caught up in the air of a balloon suffocating someone or smth similar.
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Re: D:M@HK Game 1 (Murderer Win)

Postby Rickdaily12 » Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:11 am

UzayAltay wrote:GG.
Am I misunderstanding or is the murder literally, murderer blowing up the baloon with the pen when victim was on monkey bars, causing victim to fall and die?
Also sth sth I rolled scum in Rick's game again.
TBH at one point from the tiles I thought murderer blow up the baloon and victim had hearth attack due to it.

No. The murderer wasn't involved. It was an accident, remember?

The victim died because he lost his balance on the monkey bars, and landed on the ground in a way that killed him. He fell because the Murderer suggested they play the game in the first place, and got too distracted by stealing the balloon from the Murderer and the Murderer demanding it back that they lost their balance.
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Re: D:M@HK Game 1 (Murderer Win)

Postby EvilDeanius0 » Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:06 pm

I really don't see a single clue that points to pen.

The problem was that you putting accident for balloon only really worked in the story you created, and I dont think creating a story like that is the best way to hint at the clues. Each clue needs to relate to the items on their own, or you're banking on the players just happening to create the same story as you.
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Re: D:M@HK Game 1 (Murderer Win)

Postby UzayAltay » Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:26 pm

EvilDeanius0 wrote:I really don't see a single clue that points to pen.

The problem was that you putting accident for balloon only really worked in the story you created, and I dont think creating a story like that is the best way to hint at the clues. Each clue needs to relate to the items on their own, or you're banking on the players just happening to create the same story as you.

I disagree actually.
Yeah I had trouble with finding a story but I don't think there were much other choices regarding picks.
Accident is only choice really as other two would end up with frame win. Multi picked really good items and like there is no way around with going to that route imo.
Time of death was useless except helping PoE.
Same with state of the scene.
Conflict was a good clue imo as it may have point in a conflict a pen causing baloon to blow up accidentally.
jealousy was a meh clue, yeah people may thought baloon might be a jeolousity object butin the game Cheeze went to Sombrero due to it so I think Rick would prefer not getting it.
Victim's occupation would be a very good clue if we hadn't get 100000 clues about victim so people may thought "student points pen directly".
Other two clues were outright useless.
So yeah, there was some unluck toward tiles pulled and I think Rİck needed 1 or 2 tiles to describe event directly rather than these victim tiles but it ended that way.
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Re: D:M@HK Game 1 (Murderer Win)

Postby Rickdaily12 » Wed Apr 28, 2021 2:12 pm

EvilDeanius0 wrote:I really don't see a single clue that points to pen.


So students don't carry pens?

Also, a playground is close enough to a school that I'd just say you never should have ruled it out in the first place. Could I have chosen School? Sure, but then there's Office Supplies to have to worry about.


The problem was that you putting accident for balloon only really worked in the story you created, and I dont think creating a story like that is the best way to hint at the clues. Each clue needs to relate to the items on their own, or you're banking on the players just happening to create the same story as you.


What should my choice have been instead, ED? Suffocation? There were like a dozen other candidates, like I pointed out. Helium Poisoning? Now I have to sort a Balloon and a Pen from Poisonous Gas and Office Supplies somehow.

No, I think the issue is that a balloon can't really kill people. Think about a single balloon a kid is holding. That balloon has to be pressed in a way that you're probably either going to burst it in trying to seal off the airways of the victim, or even allow the victim to puncture it using their teeth unless they're restrained (suffocation), OR, (poisoning) one single balloon does not contain the helium necessary to cause a lethal dose. (Source, have sucked in and seen others suck in an entire balloon's worth of helium).

Cause of Death: Accident does not really restrict how exactly the victim died, either. It only eliminates the killer's motive. It means the person didn't die at the hands of a person "accidentally" slashing at them a thousand times. Or, most importantly, that the killer did not expose them to a Poisonous Gas in an open surrounding like a playground "by accident". Cheeze was literally the only person who even brought up the possibility that I might have made different choices because of an inconvenient frame job. A Forensic Scientist is going to do that.

Anyone who sat here and acted like a balloon is an obvious murder method and that an accidental death to injury was so obviously not the way to go, I think, 1, ignores the fact that a balloon is a terrible murder weapon no matter how you try to kill someone using it, and 2, is saying that I shouldn't have have tried to limit the number of red herrings even more than I already tried to do.
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Re: D:M@HK Game 1 (Murderer Win)

Postby EvilDeanius0 » Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:26 pm

Rickdaily12 wrote:So students don't carry pens?

Also, a playground is close enough to a school that I'd just say you never should have ruled it out in the first place. Could I have chosen School? Sure, but then there's Office Supplies to have to worry about.


The clues are supposed to link directly to the items, not the kind of people that would use said items. You wouldn't find a pen in a playground over some of the other places, so I didnt consider it.

I think the problem is that while you did avoid certain red herrings, it didn't help us narrow down the choices we did have, so we just ended up taking pot shots without any real clue.

Balloon is a shitty weapon to get admittedly, but I think you should have gone suffocation and just taken the risk. It's better that we have a chance of getting the clues
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Re: D:M@HK Game 1 (Murderer Win)

Postby Rickdaily12 » Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:58 pm

EvilDeanius0 wrote:
Rickdaily12 wrote:So students don't carry pens?

Also, a playground is close enough to a school that I'd just say you never should have ruled it out in the first place. Could I have chosen School? Sure, but then there's Office Supplies to have to worry about.


The clues are supposed to link directly to the items, not the kind of people that would use said items. You wouldn't find a pen in a playground over some of the other places, so I didnt consider it.

You would find a balloon in the playground. You'd find a balloon in the playground above almost everything else on anyone else's list here, because it's one of the only things here a young child would be drawn to.

And of the clues I did end up drawing, what could I have done to indicate that a pen was even involved? These draws were terrible, literally everyone else realizes that. I think the only other choice I could have made for Pen was School, and I just don't agree with you that people would have guessed correctly if I went "Suffocation + School" instead. I bet you badges would have been thrown everywhere else before anyone else ever landed on balloon. There's hardly a point arguing this after the fact, though, since it's all hindsight.

Also:

The clues are supposed to link directly to the items, not the kind of people that would use said items.

I'm just going to tell you that you're thinking too rigidly here. It isn't the fault of your Forensic Scientist when they try to hint at something that connected to the items, and you then rule out those possibilities because "the clue didn't directly point out the item".

There are some wacky useless scene tiles that get you talking about the weather, or the season. Or ones that get supernatural and talk about what "sixth scene" was present at the crime scene. There's going to be some creativity on the part of the Forensic Scientist when describing the crime scene. It's going to happen, it's virtually guarenteed.

It's just not a realistic attitude to have that the clues should only be about the item, and have nothing else to do about anything else that might indirectly hint at it (like the location, or the people who'd use it), because sometimes, often even, I'd say- a direct clue just isn't possible. That doesn't necessarily make every indirect clue useless though, that's just your own rigidity and unwillingness to broaden your scope getting in the way, I'd say.

Which is pretty wild that I'm even saying this to you, considering that you tried so hard to connect "Sand" to Playground that you guessed Airship.

Unless you're trying to say something, like I should only be using "Location of Crime" to only talk about the item left behind cards, which just definitely is not the case. If my killer ever picked something like "Elevator Shaft", you can bet on me picking Elevator as a location 100% of the time.
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