Town Traitor feedback: the rolelist and the gamerules

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Town Traitor feedback: the rolelist and the gamerules

Postby GobblinGoblin » Sun May 10, 2020 11:46 am

First of all, this game mode is awesome. Don't let anything else I say in this post distract from that. The central concept of Town Traitor is incredibly fun, engaging, and it's incredibly exciting to be able to beta test it. However, I do have some critiques I want to bring up, critiques I know some others in the community feel.

Game rule issues:
People have complained about both traitor jailor and traitor mayor as both being overpowered... but that's not a gripe I agree with. It makes the game really interesting that there's plenty of possibility for a Traitor to double mafia KP for two nights. In a gamemode with up to 3 possible TP, and a TS, with only 1 mafia killing and no NK, mafia can absolutely use the KP buff. Mayor traitor is awesome because it opens up more gameplay possibilities. If you're the traitor mayor, you could choose reveal early and push mislynches, or you could choose to reveal in order to secure mafia majority when you know there are no TK left.
The problematic traitors I've seen or foresee are the following: Sheriff, BG, Spy. All the other Traitors are pretty cool in their own way, but I can talk about each of the other traitor's issues in some depth.
Let's talk Sheriff first; I played as the sheriff traitor in the inaugural game of ToS, and when I saw I rolled sheriff, I was initially pretty bummed. Sheriff in a game mode where a lot of the evils are detection immune? Day 1 dawns, and I was simultaneously bummed and really excited. I'm the traitor! that's awesome. But I'm the traitor sheriff. What purpose do I serve? relatively little purpose to be honest. After that, it got funnier, and I enjoyed the game quite a bit, as getting killed by a witched vigilante night 1 is hilarious, and the game was really interesting after that. Anyway, the point here is, sheriff traitor is useless, and Sheriff is already weak in traitor, with a lot of detection immune evils.
BG traitor is really cool in concept. Being able to save more important mafia and kill the vigilante instead is really cool, and allows for some interesting gameplay. However, the first Bodyguard traitor game I played, traitor was on mayor, and GF attacked mayor. Probably either a lack of communication or a misunderstanding of gamerules, but BG attacked GF, and they both died. Really? I was town, and this was disappointing. That turn of events screwed evils over really bad. BG traitor shouldn't be able to kill Mafia Killing... it's just very silly.
Spy traitor bothers me, although I haven't seen it in game. What can a spy traitor do realistically? They can do some plays by framing people as mafia or not mafia, but in reality, they mostly just serve as an extra vote for mafia. And considering the fact that spy claims are already suspicious for their easy fake-ability... yeah spy traitor seems like it would honestly do more harm than good.

Rolelist issues:
The rolelist seems to really favor town, in my opinion. Two guaranteed TP, a guaranteed Mayor, LO, Jailor, and another, non-mayor TS is super strong for town. Also, the fact that there is only one RT limits mafia claimspace severely. The Traitor does help alleviate this, by consuming a town slot and replacing it with a mafia, but the traitor is only one mafia, and the others are really easily weeded out, especially if traitor isn't a super powerful town. I feel that some of the fixed towns should be replaced with random towns to allow mafia to fakeclaim at least a little bit. Also, the combined effect of 2 ensured TPs and TS is, I repeat, really powerful in a lot of cases.

I know I've been longwinded, but I wanted to express my feelings on Town Traitor, because I want this game mode to be the best it can possibly be. It has so much potential to be incredible, and the mechanic of having a traitor opens up so many fun possibilities. I'm excited to see how the gamemode evolves throughout the beta development. Keep up the good work devs, y'all are awesome.
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Re: Town Traitor feedback: the rolelist and the gamerules

Postby virulent » Mon May 11, 2020 11:16 pm

Completely agreed on role list issues & TT in general. The traitor mechanic is fantastic! With a bit of balance it will potentially be my favourite game mode for sure. The amount of chaos it can cause is amazing.

Today the role list changed to swap Exe with RT and Maf Deception/Support to Mafioso/RM in Classic. Good step in the right direction, but it now feels way more town favoured. Town is more or less unified and unstoppable against flummery claims.

* The Exe removal. Something is wrong with this. Town gets another member and doesn't have to worry about exe. I feel like this still needs more neutral -- maybe Witch can be NE and add NK? I mean, traitor mode is almost the perfect mode to have a Jester in if it's random. Town is literally frothing at the mouth to lynch a red townie so Jester should have a much better chance here getting onto the gallows with a loose claim and a dwindling town.

* Changing Maf Deception/Support to Mafioso/RM. I like this, mostly for the RM.

* There needs to be more RT. As Maf the claim space is brutal (as OP mentioned). Once a few people are more confirmed than you, you're on the chopping block... Maybe some of the guaranteed town roles can be filled in with RT, again for variation. For example Sheriff -> TI.. I do like the guaranteed LO (a small chance of non-traitor LO finding a traitor town) but Sheriff isn't strictly useful.

* As Mayor (and not Mayor) I've seen Mayor get lynched a few times for fear of being traitor at all. I wonder if this should be RT. It would at least give traitor Mayor a chance by fake claiming until they have majority if they don't want to risk being lynched "just in case".

Take my thoughts with a grain of salt. I've played less than 100 games and mostly in All Any :-)
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Re: Town Traitor feedback: the rolelist and the gamerules

Postby breadedweiner » Tue May 12, 2020 1:01 am

I also came here to talk about the executioner removal for RT. Based on this, I have now had several games where sheriff is being treated as insta-confirmed, and has no rebuttal. While the extra RT is good, the removal made Sheriff too OP and ideally should be reverted.

Perhaps swap TS, TP or Mayor for an RT spot.
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Re: Town Traitor feedback: the rolelist and the gamerules

Postby leveria » Tue May 12, 2020 4:50 pm

Exe or Jester plays huge part in TT - classic mode is too skewed towards town today.. 2nd RT should be removed

Coven TT is skewed towards coven, but I like it more!
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