Let's talk Activity Requirements

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Let's talk Activity Requirements

Postby xUltiix » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:04 pm

While we have seen an upturn in general game activity recently, a lot of the time that is usually due to a few players posting to make up for some that go afk during games.

I suggest that we appoint either a FMMod or a community volunteer to be in charge of keeping track of slanking. They would do things like keep track of people who get prodded excessively, keep track of people who fluff, and monitor content. Hosts could make a summary at the end of each game on players for the person in charge of slanking to read and input - doesn't have to be advanced, just has to contain prod numbers, replaced y/n, and a general rating of activity.
In addition, post minimums.
It doesnt have to be massive - 15 per ingame day that lasts over (3/5x hours) where x = # of hours in day. Hosts can easily keep track of this by checking each player's post count at each EoD.
Someone who keeps track of slanking could also keep track of replacements and replacement reasons - replacements shouldn't go virtually unpunished, and people who replace out often should have a game maximum limited to them. Excessive replacements and low content posting shows that players can't handle a lot of games, which means they shouldn't be allowed to handle a lot of games.

I'm pretty sure other sites have at least someone in charge of keeping track of replacements, and I know other sites give out game maximums or tempbans for lots of replacements. Implementing these ideas will overall increase our activity.

Got any other ideas? Any issues with my ideas that I missed? Post below
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Re: Let's talk Activity Requirements

Postby Chemist1422 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:05 pm

I've seen a lot of low-activity players and I think this is a good solution.

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Re: Let's talk Activity Requirements

Postby chitownmvp01 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:11 pm

They already keep track of replacements. There's a spreadsheet linked in the moderation hub thread. I would support making it more specific to keep track of prods though, so we can know who consistently gets prodded.

I agree with the post minimum thing, I've seen some games here have it too, but loosely enforce it. Let's say the minimum is 10, you don't need to force replace someone for having 8 posts of pretty much solid content (keeping in mind that some players have play styles that involve less quantity, but more quality like EvilDeanius0 for example, he doesn't post a lot per day, but his posts are typically contentful). I think this is pretty effective on MU overall. Most players end up going way above the post minimum and there's someone here or there that's inactive and subbed out.

The FM Game Rules already state that if a player constantly replaces out, the maximum number of games that they can be alive in at the same time can be reduced.

Temp bans for repeatedly flaking are fine too. I know MU does that.

Overall, /support.
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Re: Let's talk Activity Requirements

Postby ICECLIMBERS » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:05 pm

I'm not fond of one-size-fits-all prodding rules. The first issue is the "quantity vs. quality" one that people have alluded towards in the thread. If the limit is 15/day and somebody has 12 insightful, readable, lengthy posts and somebody else has 25 posts that are mostly fluff, does the mod strictly adhere to the activity rule? If so then the low poster will be begrudged over being shut out of a game that they put considerable effort into, but for some reason were unable to reach the designated limit (other commitments, work, etc.) You can of course argue that they could've posted a bit more to reach the limit, but that begs another question. If two people have the same activity and post the same net amount of content in a day, but one does it in 12 posts and another in 20, why should there be a distinction? Now going back to our original example, if you decide that the fluffposter should get the boot, then they will rightly argue that they were not told that there was a quality limit. Again you can write in that the posts have to have content, but you have better things to do than to go through every players' ISOs to count how many posts you deem sufficient.
It's not like hour prod timers are flawless either. Both them and the x/day rules run into an issue- how much should a player be punished for temporary inactivity? If a game lasts for three weeks I fail to see how a 3-day period of having shaky access to the game should get you the boot. Granted with hour rules you can time your posts, but with x/day you need to artificially inflate your post count.
My experiences modding with one-size-fits-all policies have been unrewarding. For reference, this is for hour prod rules. Either I have players squeak by, or I find myself bending the inactivity rules midway through the game when I'd rather have them be consistent. There were also players who were regularly active but got prodded over a small period of inactivity. This is also why I transitioned from 24 hour prod timers to 30 hour prod timers. 36 can work well in a CL-type game or a larger game, but in a good number of games it can produce long periods of silence from a slot. With 30 hours those who usually get to post during a certain window of time each day have more flexibility.
I think the best way to deal with inactivity isn't to do it by the numbers as this thread suggests, but instead to have a blanket rule that catches those who have vanished from the game and to have mods deal with prodgers on a case-by-case basis. The former deals with those who are just inactive while the latter can take care of prodgers. Easier said than done though.
The problem rests in prodgers and not those who "go afk." Flakers are almost always caught by the system. I could write more on this but it's late and it'd mostly be rambling that becomes unrelated to the topic at hand. I think that if somebody hasn't visited the forums for a certain period of time and they haven't picked up any PMs to them that the mod should be able to bypass prod timers and outright kick them from the game. Sometimes siteflakers last too long, especially towards the ends of games when days can be shorter.
I can't speak too much about what's happening in games right now. A general lack of games that catch my interest, combined with frequent periods of times when I am too occupied with something to play FM have limited me for several months now (you could argue that this has lasted for >=a year). But, to the best of my knowledge, the site's serial prodgers aren't as active anymore.
Also, hyperposting is annoying too.
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Re: Let's talk Activity Requirements

Postby xUltiix » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:36 pm

ICECLIMBERS wrote:I'm not fond of one-size-fits-all prodding rules. The first issue is the "quantity vs. quality" one that people have alluded towards in the thread. If the limit is 15/day and somebody has 12 insightful, readable, lengthy posts and somebody else has 25 posts that are mostly fluff, does the mod strictly adhere to the activity rule? If so then the low poster will be begrudged over being shut out of a game that they put considerable effort into, but for some reason were unable to reach the designated limit (other commitments, work, etc.) You can of course argue that they could've posted a bit more to reach the limit, but that begs another question. If two people have the same activity and post the same net amount of content in a day, but one does it in 12 posts and another in 20, why should there be a distinction? Now going back to our original example, if you decide that the fluffposter should get the boot, then they will rightly argue that they were not told that there was a quality limit. Again you can write in that the posts have to have content, but you have better things to do than to go through every players' ISOs to count how many posts you deem sufficient.
It's not like hour prod timers are flawless either. Both them and the x/day rules run into an issue- how much should a player be punished for temporary inactivity? If a game lasts for three weeks I fail to see how a 3-day period of having shaky access to the game should get you the boot. Granted with hour rules you can time your posts, but with x/day you need to artificially inflate your post count.
My experiences modding with one-size-fits-all policies have been unrewarding. For reference, this is for hour prod rules. Either I have players squeak by, or I find myself bending the inactivity rules midway through the game when I'd rather have them be consistent. There were also players who were regularly active but got prodded over a small period of inactivity. This is also why I transitioned from 24 hour prod timers to 30 hour prod timers. 36 can work well in a CL-type game or a larger game, but in a good number of games it can produce long periods of silence from a slot. With 30 hours those who usually get to post during a certain window of time each day have more flexibility.
I think the best way to deal with inactivity isn't to do it by the numbers as this thread suggests, but instead to have a blanket rule that catches those who have vanished from the game and to have mods deal with prodgers on a case-by-case basis. The former deals with those who are just inactive while the latter can take care of prodgers. Easier said than done though.
The problem rests in prodgers and not those who "go afk." Flakers are almost always caught by the system. I could write more on this but it's late and it'd mostly be rambling that becomes unrelated to the topic at hand. I think that if somebody hasn't visited the forums for a certain period of time and they haven't picked up any PMs to them that the mod should be able to bypass prod timers and outright kick them from the game. Sometimes siteflakers last too long, especially towards the ends of games when days can be shorter.
I can't speak too much about what's happening in games right now. A general lack of games that catch my interest, combined with frequent periods of times when I am too occupied with something to play FM have limited me for several months now (you could argue that this has lasted for >=a year). But, to the best of my knowledge, the site's serial prodgers aren't as active anymore.
Also, hyperposting is annoying too.

This post's formatting is irritating but I did read it and it was good content
The problem with making it subjective rather than objective lies in making it much harder for hosts and people who keep track of activity to do their job - rather than just counting, they have to go through every post and read the content.
By "going afk" I meant the prodgers
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Re: Let's talk Activity Requirements

Postby chitownmvp01 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:52 am

moonbird wrote:Unless hosts began to PM me every time someone was prodded (upkeeping the sheet still for the foreseeable future), that's not something I can sanely do. :thumbsup:


You can check hosts' ISOs for prods. I usually keep track in my game spreadsheets when I host as well, but I delete that info when the game ends.
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Re: Let's talk Activity Requirements

Postby ICECLIMBERS » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:38 pm

I was too tired to make a coherent post. Can’t even remember what I posted fully. I was thinking of 10B where Rock replaced somebody who was prodding instead of waiting for a Second prod.
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