Moderators: Varanus, FM Game Moderators
K1llthestory wrote:okay i understand that it hasnt been brought up as an issue before. that is a reasonable argument. however, you must admit that if i were to report andilin, he wouldnt really have broken any rules, so he wouldnt need to be punished. how do you punish a person like andilin?
parkerparkour wrote:the issue is you are approaching this as if the only ways to make someone unbearable to play with can be immediately punished/you can rely on the mods actually punishing them
you can be an asshole without harassing enough people to warrant a warning, you can flake but not enough to warrant being kicked out by the host
i dont see why it's necessary to have hosts/mods directly involved in the process nor why you are taking it so personally
parkerparkour wrote:the issue is you're the not the only mod and you're also on semi-hiatus, you've dealt with mod hell on a personal basis and pretty much roasted your whole team on several occasions, you should know how understandably leery people would be of approaching them with cases that arent open and shut or in-the-moment drama and harassment in a game
ALSO jammy/milte types are slow burn which is a lot less harder to handle than someone like pre-humanized understood
ryanyb wrote:I think some of the fustration about reporting to mods, @tg, is that clearly the mods see it, play in games with it, and for those active in the discord, hear public rants there about it. There becomes a point where the burden is no longer on the players to report but rather the mods to see and react. If I was hosting a game that no mods were in or watching then I’d report it. If I was hosting a game with a mod in it, I would figure obvious incidents would be dealt with. If I’m hosting a game and a mod is reading the game, I assume the same. Yes you are moderators of this forum but you’re also players. The things that irritate you irritate us; and we see repeated flaking/slitting around the rules and mods don’t interfere because ‘they don’t realize it’s happening/that fusterating’ all I can say is bullshit. Yes we could do better about reporting, but sometimes you should treat someone saying to you or pming you ‘I can’t fucking believe Milte is falling again’ as a report. This is a fucking mafia forum board not some unnecessarily strict and organized company. You shouldn’t need formal reports from players. General note to mods, stop treating this forum like more than it actually is. It’s a community and the obsession with over-professionalism kills wim to play and engage here.
TrueGent wrote:K1llthestory wrote:TrueGent wrote:How do you define flaking? How do you define gamethrowing?
Are we supposed to use our own judgement? What if our view is not the same as the players involved in the game? Do we ignore them?
I cannot read the minds of my players and if they are unwilling to tell me when they find a player problematic that is not my problem.
flaking = excessive replacements
gamethrowing = going against your win con.
these are semantics that have been talked to death, and if you really have trouble identifying them, then i honestly have no words.
How do you define excessive? At what point do you deem a number excessive? Are justified replacements taken into account here?
What constitutes going against your wincon? Is self hammering gamethrowing? Shooting at a member of your own mafia? Trying to lynch Ladd D1?
I am not here to deem what my players find acceptable. I am here to ensure that my games run smoothly and as I plan, if you don't want to tell me if you think my game isn't running smoothly then it is not my job to find that information from you.
K1llthestory wrote:TrueGent wrote:How do you define flaking? How do you define gamethrowing?
Are we supposed to use our own judgement? What if our view is not the same as the players involved in the game? Do we ignore them?
I cannot read the minds of my players and if they are unwilling to tell me when they find a player problematic that is not my problem.
flaking = excessive replacements
gamethrowing = going against your win con.
these are semantics that have been talked to death, and if you really have trouble identifying them, then i honestly have no words.
moonbird wrote:Mandatory WoTC just gives an open gate to kick players out of a game because xdxd you're bad, and I don't think that's unbiased or fair. Everyone deserves the chance to play; if they're a shit in the process, then there's grounds to take action.
chitownmvp01 wrote:moonbird wrote:Mandatory WoTC just gives an open gate to kick players out of a game because xdxd you're bad, and I don't think that's unbiased or fair. Everyone deserves the chance to play; if they're a shit in the process, then there's grounds to take action.
So andilin deserves the chance to continue to troll? Just wait for when he rolls Town Power and costs town the game with his trolling.
TrueGent wrote:chitownmvp01 wrote:moonbird wrote:Mandatory WoTC just gives an open gate to kick players out of a game because xdxd you're bad, and I don't think that's unbiased or fair. Everyone deserves the chance to play; if they're a shit in the process, then there's grounds to take action.
So andilin deserves the chance to continue to troll? Just wait for when he rolls Town Power and costs town the game with his trolling.
Continue implies its happened before so why have I never received an actual complaint about andilin that wasn't in the form of mindless bitching?
TrueGent wrote:If you think we start every complaint discussion with "does this break any rules" and we completely dismiss it if it doesn't then you have missed the point entirely.
I could start warning people for every instance of rulebreaking that exists and by next week we would have about 3 players left that aren't blacklisted, because at the end of the day slight rulebreaking is allowed as long as the players involved don't care, and if they aren't communicating the fact that they DO care to me, who am I to say that they should care?
chitownmvp01 wrote:TrueGent wrote:chitownmvp01 wrote:moonbird wrote:Mandatory WoTC just gives an open gate to kick players out of a game because xdxd you're bad, and I don't think that's unbiased or fair. Everyone deserves the chance to play; if they're a shit in the process, then there's grounds to take action.
So andilin deserves the chance to continue to troll? Just wait for when he rolls Town Power and costs town the game with his trolling.
Continue implies its happened before so why have I never received an actual complaint about andilin that wasn't in the form of mindless bitching?
Do hosts not read their own games? I may have complained once to one of the mods a long time ago. I don't remember. But I have complained in the game thread and asked him to stop multiple times only to get no favorable results.TrueGent wrote:If you think we start every complaint discussion with "does this break any rules" and we completely dismiss it if it doesn't then you have missed the point entirely.
I could start warning people for every instance of rulebreaking that exists and by next week we would have about 3 players left that aren't blacklisted, because at the end of the day slight rulebreaking is allowed as long as the players involved don't care, and if they aren't communicating the fact that they DO care to me, who am I to say that they should care?
Well the rules are the rules. Complaints or no complaints shouldn't affect whether the rules are enforced or not imo.
Gobln wrote:Okay, Gent. Lay it out for us. Make it easy and clear for us.
Give us a form that we can fill out and use to report a player. And how many reports are needed before that player gets blacklisted/banned/suspended/whatever?
I'll gladly go back and read games, but just set it up so I'm not wasting my time here.
TrueGent wrote:Gobln wrote:Okay, Gent. Lay it out for us. Make it easy and clear for us.
Give us a form that we can fill out and use to report a player. And how many reports are needed before that player gets blacklisted/banned/suspended/whatever?
I'll gladly go back and read games, but just set it up so I'm not wasting my time here.
You don't need a form, all you need to do is let us know if you truly have an issue with someone.
The standard would remain the same, 3 official warnings for a blacklist.
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