Role List for the next game

[Rickdaily12]

I think I'm comfortable with the thought then, of treating my idea as follows:

Perhaps change my Jailor idea into 4 100-character questions-responses from each of the Jailor and Detainee. Then, change the Jailor's role as Town Power. Then, make it so that we can only see a Town Power role when otherwise designated, or through a Random Town.

I don't like Classic ToS because it makes the game too predictable. I don't want us to start drafting X roles as decent roles to play with and X roles as those to avoid. Lord, I think your Random Town suggestion solves the issue with the powerful roles entirely.

As the current curator of the guide directory, it is of my belief that each and every role has benefits and weaknesses that any player can support or exploit as they see fit. And I don't support the idea of just ignoring already existing roles. I think if there is a balancing issue, it is up to us to address the issue, not just toss the role away unless where it is strictly necessary.

In the case of the Mayor/Jailor/Retributionist, their elimination makes it easier for both sides to let their guards down a little and to make assumptions. Let's not do this. I'm not requesting any of these roles to be necessarily included, but I would be thoroughly disappointed if I am to just consider them all blacklisted at this time.

On the Mayor issue, I'm of probably a vastly different opinion of the Forum version of the role at this time. I'll explain more once at least Game A finishes, but until I have my silence on game analysis removed, I would rather we not discuss elimination of any role just yet, please...

[iggyvolz]

I put it as GF or Mafioso so that if a Mafioso dies before a Godfather dies, there is still the potential of a Godfather in the Mafia.

Only once 2 Mafiosos die is there confirmed not to be a Godfather.

So that is why I did it like that.


And for the Stalker, for this game, the Any or the Random Neutral may be a Neutral Killing - so in addition to the 1/3 chance from the Neutral Killing, there is also a 1/8 chance from the random neutral.
Add to that the 1/27 chance from the Any, and you end up with a 107/216 chance of a Stalker, which is almost a 50% chance (~49.5%)

Actually you're doing your math slightly incorrectly. Stalker is a unique role, so you should do it like this (assuming order is Neutral Killing then Random Neutral if no stalker yet chosen then Any if no stalker yet chosen):

(Chance of Stalker in Neutral Killing) + (Chance of Stalker not Neutral Killing) * (Chance of Stalker in Random Neutral) + (Chance of Stalker not Neutral Killing) * (Chance of Stalker not Random Neutral) * (Chance of Stalker being Any)

So:



Which is about 44%. And this doesn't even factor in other unique roles, which will make this calculation WAY more complicated!

[LordofFail]

I put it as GF or Mafioso so that if a Mafioso dies before a Godfather dies, there is still the potential of a Godfather in the Mafia.

Only once 2 Mafiosos die is there confirmed not to be a Godfather.

So that is why I did it like that.


And for the Stalker, for this game, the Any or the Random Neutral may be a Neutral Killing - so in addition to the 1/3 chance from the Neutral Killing, there is also a 1/8 chance from the random neutral.
Add to that the 1/27 chance from the Any, and you end up with a 107/216 chance of a Stalker, which is almost a 50% chance (~49.5%)

Actually you're doing your math slightly incorrectly. Stalker is a unique role, so you should do it like this (assuming order is Neutral Killing then Random Neutral if no stalker yet chosen then Any if no stalker yet chosen):

(Chance of Stalker in Neutral Killing) + (Chance of Stalker not Neutral Killing) * (Chance of Stalker in Random Neutral) + (Chance of Stalker not Neutral Killing) * (Chance of Stalker not Random Neutral) * (Chance of Stalker being Any)

So:



Which is about 44%. And this doesn't even factor in other unique roles, which will make this calculation WAY more complicated!

Actually your math is wrong.

I dont mean to start a fuss, but the fact that Stalker is a unique role is irrelevant.

If anything, it would increase the chances as should another unique role be chosen from its own alignment then it could not be picked again.

The Random Neutral calculation is done assuming that Stalker was not the Neutral Killing, so the odds of Stalker are 1/8

It is also partly the method in which I choose the roles - let me explain:

First thing I do is select all the random roles by rolling dice.

Then, any unique roles appearing twice are rerolled.

So lets say the Neutral Evil and Random Neutral both landed on Witch - the Random Neutral would then be rerolled to something else - so if anything it increases the odds of a Stalker being present.

TL;DR Your math is wrong.
You do not need to take into account the fact that the Neutral Killing is not the Stalker in the Random Neutral calculation (or in any other calculation).
Your calculations for Random Neutral would be the final chances of Stalker coming from a Random Neutral - but that was not what was being calculated as when I roll for the roles, all roles are in play and I only check at the end for doubles of unique roles or a setup that I do not like.

Note that when I say setup that I do not like, it is possible that a veto a role or two and reroll them because I find the setup to be either unfair, or just silly.

Example: In Game B, the Mafia's original roll was for there to be two Janitors - I decided to reroll both Janitor roles as a game with 2 janitors in the Mafia, from experience, is not very fun as every night there is at least one Mafia role who does not have the opportunity to do anything coordinated with the Mafia.
The same principle applied for why the Town Investigative or Random Town could not be an Investigator - I did not want there to be two investigators for the Town at the start, it would make town OP and make the game more based on Power Roles then deduction from posting.


Sorry if I was a wee bit rambly, I wasn't quite sure where I was going with that post and I dont want to reread it so I will just post it anyways

[iggyvolz]

I put it as GF or Mafioso so that if a Mafioso dies before a Godfather dies, there is still the potential of a Godfather in the Mafia.

Only once 2 Mafiosos die is there confirmed not to be a Godfather.

So that is why I did it like that.


And for the Stalker, for this game, the Any or the Random Neutral may be a Neutral Killing - so in addition to the 1/3 chance from the Neutral Killing, there is also a 1/8 chance from the random neutral.
Add to that the 1/27 chance from the Any, and you end up with a 107/216 chance of a Stalker, which is almost a 50% chance (~49.5%)

Actually you're doing your math slightly incorrectly. Stalker is a unique role, so you should do it like this (assuming order is Neutral Killing then Random Neutral if no stalker yet chosen then Any if no stalker yet chosen):

(Chance of Stalker in Neutral Killing) + (Chance of Stalker not Neutral Killing) * (Chance of Stalker in Random Neutral) + (Chance of Stalker not Neutral Killing) * (Chance of Stalker not Random Neutral) * (Chance of Stalker being Any)

So:



Which is about 44%. And this doesn't even factor in other unique roles, which will make this calculation WAY more complicated!

Actually your math is wrong.

I dont mean to start a fuss, but the fact that Stalker is a unique role is irrelevant.

If anything, it would increase the chances as should another unique role be chosen from its own alignment then it could not be picked again.

The Random Neutral calculation is done assuming that Stalker was not the Neutral Killing, so the odds of Stalker are 1/8

It is also partly the method in which I choose the roles - let me explain:

First thing I do is select all the random roles by rolling dice.

Then, any unique roles appearing twice are rerolled.

So lets say the Neutral Evil and Random Neutral both landed on Witch - the Random Neutral would then be rerolled to something else - so if anything it increases the odds of a Stalker being present.

TL;DR Your math is wrong.
You do not need to take into account the fact that the Neutral Killing is not the Stalker in the Random Neutral calculation (or in any other calculation).
Your calculations for Random Neutral would be the final chances of Stalker coming from a Random Neutral - but that was not what was being calculated as when I roll for the roles, all roles are in play and I only check at the end for doubles of unique roles or a setup that I do not like.

Note that when I say setup that I do not like, it is possible that a veto a role or two and reroll them because I find the setup to be either unfair, or just silly.

Example: In Game B, the Mafia's original roll was for there to be two Janitors - I decided to reroll both Janitor roles as a game with 2 janitors in the Mafia, from experience, is not very fun as every night there is at least one Mafia role who does not have the opportunity to do anything coordinated with the Mafia.
The same principle applied for why the Town Investigative or Random Town could not be an Investigator - I did not want there to be two investigators for the Town at the start, it would make town OP and make the game more based on Power Roles then deduction from posting.


Sorry if I was a wee bit rambly, I wasn't quite sure where I was going with that post and I dont want to reread it so I will just post it anyways

Ah, you already factored it in

[TheThief]

Umm... what?

For random neutral AND neutral killing:

Are we doing the or part I am guessing...

it would be used as the combinations...

The chance of getting the stalker with putting the sk or arson back into the equation if you were to pick them...

If you don't get stalker for the 33.33% of the neutral killing, you will only have 12.5% to get the stalker. (I might add that I did that without a calculator. I meant about the 12.5% thing... I memorized it, so I don't need a calculator. 1/16 is 6.25% and 1/32 is 3.125%) Anyways, if it doesn't get the neutral killing, might as well not worry about getting it for the second chance.

[ZebraLord]

So with Stalker, I have a question. If you target someone to stalk on one night, can you still target someone else on the next night?

[LordofFail]

So with Stalker, I have a question. If you target someone to stalk on one night, can you still target someone else on the next night?

Yes. You only actually stalk them for one night.

Paranoia and fear does the rest.

Although Stalker will not be in my Episode III hosted game, although it may be in Game C