Role List for the next game

[LordofFail]

I know that there are games currently running, but I wanted to discuss the Role List for the next game that I will be hosting. I am open to any and all suggestions, please do not hesitate to give your opinions on this Role List.

Note that this Role List may only be used if I host a game other than Game A.

Should I be the Episode III Game A Host, a more standardized list will be used (no testing roles) and there will be less random roles.

I have come up with a slightly altered version of the Game B Role List I used,making Town a bit less powerful and roles a bit more random (because who dosent like a good random role?)

Also, I took out the required Town Power role - that alignment is incredibly powerful and there should not be a guarantee of a Mayor or a Retributionist in play.
Rather, let one of them come into play (if they do at all) from a Random Town or an Any.

This is the Role List that I am most likely to use in Episode III (whatever game I am hosting)

I may make slight changes, but this is the best candidate - it is a very random list, but town have been given 2 investigative roles and two random town roles to make up for it.


Role List:

Mafia (4):
Mafia Killing (Godfather OR Mafioso)
Mafia Support (Consigliere OR Consort)
Mafia Deception (Janitor OR Framer)
Random Mafia


Town (11):
Citizen x4
Random Town x2
Town Investigative (Sheriff OR Lookout OR Investigator) x2
Town Protective (Doctor OR BodyGuard)
Town Killing (Veteran OR Vigilante)
Town Support (Transporter OR Escort OR Medium)

Neutrals (4):
Neutral Benign (Survivor OR Amnesiac)
Neutral Evil (Jester OR Executioner OR Witch)
Neutral Killing (Serial Killer OR Arsonist OR Stalker)
Random Neutral

Here is a brief summary of the Stalker:

Spoiler: Stalker

Alignment: Neutral (Killing)

How a Stalker works (in short):

-The Stalker chooses a target to stalk.

-Stalked targets know they are being Stalked.

Once Stalked, a target has 2 days left to live before dying of paranoia. NO EXCEPTIONS. NOT EVEN FOR AN ALERT VETERAN

No roles are immune to stalking, and stalking ignores all night immunities.

The Stalker may be roleblocked.

Stalked players gain Night Immunity as they are paranoid and do not sleep.

Essentially, this is what would happen to a player being stalked:

Night 1: You are Stalked. You get a message notifying you of this. You gain night immunity until the Stalker dies, or you do.

Night 2: You become very paranoid. You get a message saying that this may be your last day alive.

Night 3: You may carry out a night action should you have one, then you die of paranoia.


You show up as a Stalker to a Sheriff or an Investigator (unless a Framer framed you that night)


An alert Veteran will shoot a Stalker, but a BodyGuard will not kill the Stalker, as the Stalker is not attacking the target, he is only following him around in the shadows.

The Veteran will kill the Stalker as he has keen eyesight and will notice him.

The Lookout will see the Stalker visit his target.

Stalker is a Unique Role.

Stalker is immune to stalking (incase a transporter transports the Stalker with his target, he cannot Stalk himself)


I think that is everything there is to the Stalker role - if anything is unclear about it, do not hesitate to post!

And one Any for good measure


Here is the full Role List, ToS style:

Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Random Town
Random Town
Town Investigative
Town Investigative
Town Protective
Town Killing
Town Support
Mafia Killing
Mafia Support
Mafia Deception
Random Mafia
Neutral Benign
Neutral Evil
Neutral Killing
Random Neutral
Any

[iggyvolz]

I think that the mafia is underpowered. Only a godfather or a mafioso gives the mafia a huge disadvantage in my opinion.

I feel like if we're going to include a stalker it should be a given - it would be pointless to include this new role and not have it exist.

[LordofFail]

I put it as GF or Mafioso so that if a Mafioso dies before a Godfather dies, there is still the potential of a Godfather in the Mafia.

Only once 2 Mafiosos die is there confirmed not to be a Godfather.

So that is why I did it like that.


And for the Stalker, for this game, the Any or the Random Neutral may be a Neutral Killing - so in addition to the 1/3 chance from the Neutral Killing, there is also a 1/8 chance from the random neutral.
Add to that the 1/27 chance from the Any, and you end up with a 107/216 chance of a Stalker, which is almost a 50% chance (~49.5%)

[Arckas]

So, is it possible to have a mafioso and not a GF cause if thats the case mafioso is just a underpowered GF.

And as for the Stalker, does this mean that they will target one person for three night, or will they target one person and that person will die after 3 nights?
And if any sheriff/invest goes to them, they are a confirmed Stalker, right? (unless they were framed)

Just to clarify, stalker ignores night immunity?

[LordofFail]

So, is it possible to have a mafioso and not a GF cause if thats the case mafioso is just a underpowered GF.

And as for the Stalker, does this mean that they will target one person for three night, or will they target one person and that person will die after 3 nights?
And if any sheriff/invest goes to them, they are a confirmed Stalker, right? (unless they were framed)

Just to clarify, stalker ignores night immunity?

Stalker ignores night immunity.

Stalker visits a target once; at that point the death timer is put in motion; nothing can stop it except for the Stalker being lynched.

And stalker will show up as confirmed stalker to a sheriff or investigator unless they were framed (or transported).

And it is possible to have a Mafioso and not a Godfather - they essentially do the same thing except that GF is NS to a Sheriff and night immune.
(although GF is paired with Mayor while Mafioso is paired with Veteran, so technically it is easier to whisper as a Mafioso to the investigator that you are veteran and trying not to attract attention onto yourself so that you can save alerts)

[TheThief]

I wanna join this game!

/ join (I know this is early, but I wanna play this game since I don't care if I get the reward!)

I hope that I get stalker!

[Metrion]

I like the more randoms and an any with no confirmed town power.

Mafia have been catching really bad breaks lately.

[Panzo]

Which alignments do Stalkers win with? and I'd love to join this one as well if given the chance

[LordofFail]

Which alignments do Stalkers win with? and I'd love to join this one as well if given the chance

Stalkers win with Stalkers, Witches and Survivors.

[TheThief]

Which alignments do Stalkers win with? and I'd love to join this one as well if given the chance

Stalkers win with Stalkers, Witches and Survivors.

I thought that amnesiac would win with everyone if they don't change.

I swear it has happened before.

[Guzame]

Yes, an amnesiac is like a survivor without a vest for as long as he doesn't choose a role.

[TheThief]

Yes, an amnesiac is like a survivor without a vest for as long as he doesn't choose a role.

Ok thank you for letting me know.

[Rickdaily12]

I'd like to suggest this role list instead:

Town Investigative
Town Investigative
Town Protective
Town Protective
Town Killing
Town Killing
Town Support
Town Support
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Godfather
Mafioso
Mafia Support
Random Mafia
Neutral Benign
Neutral Evil
Neutral Killing
Neutral Killing
Any (Four counts of Citizen added, and not including any more killing roles)

The reason being is because people are going to claim to be Citizen anyway, and I'd rather see the Town put more work into seeing who is lying about logical use of powers, as opposed to lynching either the loud or quiet personalities of the Town. We have seen, in 2/3 played games in history, multiple Citizens just being slaughtered, and then the Evil people being found that way. I'm no longer fond of the idea that we can all hide behind the same role claim. Also, it's just too difficult for a Citizen to prove their likely innocence if accused for just being a Citizen.

To make up for the additional few Power Roles, and to help the evil people kill the town fast enough to not burn out in their lies, I propose we add a second neutral killing to the game. 20 people is a lot for two killing groups to handle. If 8 of the Town can fight back with powers, then this should stop a Town slaughter. I want to encourage more Power Role bluffing, and making the killing situation for both sides more complicated.

ONE LAST EDIT: I also think there should be a chance of two Mafia Supports. IMHO, Mafia Support roles are far more helpful to the Mafia in a group of 20 than Mafia Deception roles (more people, but not more investigatives) but we shouldn't eliminate the chances of ONE Deceptive appearing entirely.

Also, Lord- have you considered my modified Jailor for addition to the role cards?

[PoisonMaid]

Rick where is this post? I'd like to take a look <3(at the jailor, unless you want to PM it to me)

[Rickdaily12]

Here

1. THE JAILOR

You are the Jailor.

You are the Jailor in this town. Several years ago, you were a famous prison guard widely feared for successful, brutal interrogations.
These days, however, you see the need to help the town during the Mafia invasion. You want to use these methods to catch the real criminals.

Each day, you may send the moderator a PM the name of the person you wish to jail in the night. If no living name is sent, you do not jail that night.
Once the Night begins, you may anonymously send up to 4 messages to the Moderator or up to 4 100-character questions, to your detainee that night.
The detainee may only respond with Yes, No, or Name-Only responses. (Yes, No, or [Rick].) They can also tell you a role, if asked.
You may decide to execute your detainee. It will ignore ALL night immunity. You may only do this three times in the game.
If you execute a Town Member, you will lose the ability to execute for the rest of the game.
While in Jail, the detainee is protected from all negative effects. (Immunity from all attacks, roleblocks, transports, ignitions, controlling, etc)
However, the detainee will lose their night ability. Therefore, if the Serial Killer is not executed, you will be killed by the Serial Killer.
The only night actions that succeed on the detainee are investigative night actions.

You win with the Town. Your alignment is Town Killing.

Posted here: viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1182&start=25

[LordofFail]

I do not think the Jailor is practical for Forum Mafia.

Especially because in ToS many Jailor questions are in response to previous answers.

Example:

Jailor: Role?
Suspect: Investigator
Jailor: Oh - who have you checked? What do you know?


And it would be very easy for a Jailed player to say "I am a Citizen - I know nothing" and be a Serial Killer and kill you - and the Town would have no idea if you Jailed Serial Killer or just got unlucky.

TL;DR I do not think Jailor is practical (maybe it will be tested sometime in the future, but not yet)

[Rickdaily12]

Lord... I'm not as sure. Word your question well enough and you get what you're looking for. If you don't, it's going to bite you in the ass.

Honestly, four restricted answer based questions is more than enough, I think, to give some role, and give a handful of ideas to the Jailor in order for them to believe you or not. In the meantime, there's a case to be made about jailing the right people, and about being able to deduce who isn't caring in their answers.

At the very least, I'd like to see an attempt at the role card. Would 4 100 character responses be too much to give the detainee, you think?

[PoisonMaid]

I kind of agree with LordofFail.
Might be worth a try in the future though, just to test it out.

But I see it almost being as powerful as the Mayor though.

[iggyvolz]

I don't think mayor overpowers town, but I think it should be balanced with more mafia members. 6 or 7 mafia would be good in my opinion.

I do have another point to make, but saying it out loud could be influential on the current games, so I PM'd it to LordOfFail and I'll post it here once they are both done.

[Arckas]

The ability for the mafioso or the gf to choose the order of promotion when they die. I think that doing this whould make more sense then the vanilla order. Of course if there is a gf AND a mafioso then the mafioso whould be turn into a gf.

[LordofFail]

It would seem that at the moment I am to be hosting Episode III Game A.

I will be using the same Role List, but the Stalker role will not be present.

It may however, be present in Game B.

I am contemplating whether or not Medium or Retributionist should have the potential to be in play - I will let you know of the decision shortly.

[Arckas]

All I hope is that there would be no mayor. It takes the whatever the game was, into a complete new direction that (what I think) doesn't make it as fun to play. Not to sound like a pre-game lobby whiner.

[ObiWan]

It would seem that at the moment I am to be hosting Episode III Game A.

I will be using the same Role List, but the Stalker role will not be present.

It may however, be present in Game B.

I am contemplating whether or not Medium or Retributionist should have the potential to be in play - I will let you know of the decision shortly.

As far as I know we ( Ilynx and I)won't be doing the Stalker role for our game. We won't be having a mayor eirher but we will have a retributionist.

[Rickdaily12]

I think I'm comfortable with the thought then, of treating my idea as follows:

Perhaps change my Jailor idea into 4 100-character questions-responses from each of the Jailor and Detainee. Then, change the Jailor's role as Town Power. Then, make it so that we can only see a Town Power role when otherwise designated, or through a Random Town.

I don't like Classic ToS because it makes the game too predictable. I don't want us to start drafting X roles as decent roles to play with and X roles as those to avoid. Lord, I think your Random Town suggestion solves the issue with the powerful roles entirely.

As the current curator of the guide directory, it is of my belief that each and every role has benefits and weaknesses that any player can support or exploit as they see fit. And I don't support the idea of just ignoring already existing roles. I think if there is a balancing issue, it is up to us to address the issue, not just toss the role away unless where it is strictly necessary.

In the case of the Mayor/Jailor/Retributionist, their elimination makes it easier for both sides to let their guards down a little and to make assumptions. Let's not do this. I'm not requesting any of these roles to be necessarily included, but I would be thoroughly disappointed if I am to just consider them all blacklisted at this time.

On the Mayor issue, I'm of probably a vastly different opinion of the Forum version of the role at this time. I'll explain more once at least Game A finishes, but until I have my silence on game analysis removed, I would rather we not discuss elimination of any role just yet, please...

[iggyvolz]

I put it as GF or Mafioso so that if a Mafioso dies before a Godfather dies, there is still the potential of a Godfather in the Mafia.

Only once 2 Mafiosos die is there confirmed not to be a Godfather.

So that is why I did it like that.


And for the Stalker, for this game, the Any or the Random Neutral may be a Neutral Killing - so in addition to the 1/3 chance from the Neutral Killing, there is also a 1/8 chance from the random neutral.
Add to that the 1/27 chance from the Any, and you end up with a 107/216 chance of a Stalker, which is almost a 50% chance (~49.5%)

Actually you're doing your math slightly incorrectly. Stalker is a unique role, so you should do it like this (assuming order is Neutral Killing then Random Neutral if no stalker yet chosen then Any if no stalker yet chosen):

(Chance of Stalker in Neutral Killing) + (Chance of Stalker not Neutral Killing) * (Chance of Stalker in Random Neutral) + (Chance of Stalker not Neutral Killing) * (Chance of Stalker not Random Neutral) * (Chance of Stalker being Any)

So:



Which is about 44%. And this doesn't even factor in other unique roles, which will make this calculation WAY more complicated!