Mafia Killing Mechanics Revamp

[Metrion]

Currently Mafia Kills through either the Godfather or Mafioso. The Mafioso promotes into the Godfather and lesser Mafia into Mafioso if there is neither. If the Godfather is blocked, the Mafioso performs the kill that they voted for and vice versa. You should all be familiar with this system and it's pros and cons.

My suggestion is simply this:

Any Mafia may sacrifice their night action in order to perform the factional kill. No longer do other roles promote into Mafioso.

Godfather, immunity to kills and sheriff. Reports on other Mafia's actions. Their alignment is Mafia Head.
Mafioso, promotes into Godfather upon their death. Or any other dead mafia role of their choice for that matter. Their alignment is Mafia Tactical.

Thoughts?

[Gobln]

Why hasn't this been added already? There is absolutely no reason not to use this.

[Arcthurus]

Well, it does eliminate the need of a mafioso on the rolelist to prevent escort steamroll.

[LeScraf]

This is great, mainly because I was there when you thought of it.

[Santa07]

This is really good, because I guess now being promoted to mafioso doesn't sacrifice previous night actions, and as arc said prevents an escort steamroll.

My only problem with it is that perhaps it would be a little harder to co-ordinate since the mafia would have to make an agreement on who's doing the killing. I'm also not a big fan of the new mafioso, I think if we're gonna roll out with this idea just scrap it all together.

Also don't go too far into EM grounds, this is starting to kinda ring EM to me

[Knockoff]

There have been way too many games that have the GF being blocked till town wins recently. I'm in favor of this.

[Invenio]

*creative juices flowing*
I'll begin making mafia head roles.

[Santa07]

Would this altered version of my ninja count as a mafia head role?

Ninja:

You are a Ninja.

Your alignment is Mafia head.

It’s time! You have spent years of training at Japan’s finest ninja academy. Now you have the chance to put your skills to the test.

You can only make the factional kill three times during the game.
When you kill, you ignore town protectives, and you cannot be seen by the lookout.
You still cannot kill night-immune roles and veterans can still kill you, so watch out.
If an investigator tries to investigate you, you will role-block them, but the sheriff is too smart for you, and will immediately realise that you are a member of the mafia.

Your allies are [x] the [role], and [x] the [role]

[Deleter]

/support

Just remove the Mafioso frankly, it's a useless role with the new mechanics.

[VonAntarctic]

I support this, it makes mafia stalls impossible wich is great, it eliminates an unfair tactic.

With that being said, there should be probably a "Suggest your Mafia Head roles" thread if this idea will pass, because i already see people doing those.

[Metrion]

I think Mafioso would be a role worth keeping, it really keeps Town on their toes and is a giant safety net for Mafia. The penicle of the new defensive alignment: Mafia Tactical.

Should the Godfather be killed, Town and Neutrals can't breath easy since a Mafioso could take up their immunity and Investigation immunity (at least in my games).

If the Town needs to lynch the Consort to win (as there is a BG on the Mayor or something), you can just immediately assume the role and kill the Mayor in peace. Likewise, most "we have to lynch this specific Mafia role today" scenarios are useless.

That's probably rare but it presserves your best roles should one die and makes life for the GF much more comfortable as always since you'll be on kill duty for the most part. I have a buff in mind if this is entirely un-appealing but when you think about it, the Mafioso could be stronger now in general then it was. Before half it's utility only came in when certian roles were in play.

[ObiWan]

Any Mafia may sacrifice their night action in order to perform the factional kill. No longer do other roles promote into Mafioso.

Godfather, immunity to kills and sheriff. Reports on other Mafia's actions. Their alignment is Mafia Head.
Mafioso, promotes into Godfather upon their death. Or any other dead mafia role of their choice for that matter. Their alignment is Mafia Tactical.

I think this is a great idea. The only major problem I see with it is that the Mafia not being able to decide who is the one doing the killing that night. But I guess if you cannot come to an agreement - you're losing a kill that night for your team.

I think this should be tested out, Met.

[LeScraf]

Any Mafia may sacrifice their night action in order to perform the factional kill. No longer do other roles promote into Mafioso.

Godfather, immunity to kills and sheriff. Reports on other Mafia's actions. Their alignment is Mafia Head.
Mafioso, promotes into Godfather upon their death. Or any other dead mafia role of their choice for that matter. Their alignment is Mafia Tactical.

I think this is a great idea. The only major problem I see with it is that the Mafia not being able to decide who is the one doing the killing that night. But I guess if you cannot come to an agreement - you're losing a kill that night for your team.

I think this should be tested out, Met.

Obi is right. You guys should probably test this in 7B or 7C 7D or 7E.

[Arcthurus]

Any Mafia may sacrifice their night action in order to perform the factional kill. No longer do other roles promote into Mafioso.

Godfather, immunity to kills and sheriff. Reports on other Mafia's actions. Their alignment is Mafia Head.
Mafioso, promotes into Godfather upon their death. Or any other dead mafia role of their choice for that matter. Their alignment is Mafia Tactical.

I think this is a great idea. The only major problem I see with it is that the Mafia not being able to decide who is the one doing the killing that night. But I guess if you cannot come to an agreement - you're losing a kill that night for your team.

I think this should be tested out, Met.

That doesn't really sound major. Mafia has always cooperated on who-should-target-who from the start. There shouldn't be a problem to choose someone for killing. Besides, they could always rank their members in order of importance. E.g Framer < Prankster < Consigliere.

[Swordsworth]

Any Mafia may sacrifice their night action in order to perform the factional kill. No longer do other roles promote into Mafioso.

Godfather, immunity to kills and sheriff. Reports on other Mafia's actions. Their alignment is Mafia Head.
Mafioso, promotes into Godfather upon their death. Or any other dead mafia role of their choice for that matter. Their alignment is Mafia Tactical.

I think this is a great idea. The only major problem I see with it is that the Mafia not being able to decide who is the one doing the killing that night. But I guess if you cannot come to an agreement - you're losing a kill that night for your team.

I think this should be tested out, Met.

Obi is right. You guys should probably test this in 7B or 7C 7D or 7E.

^. I like this idea.

[Nellyfox]

@Santa
Ninja wouldn't work as a mafia head role if it didn't have a mafioso because mafia needs their consistent kills. Would rather have a godfather so mafia could kill each night. Also, three nights of kills is a lot anyway.

Point aside, I'd like to see this and Mafia Head category.

[ObiWan]

That doesn't really sound major. Mafia has always cooperated on who-should-target-who from the start. There shouldn't be a problem to choose someone for killing. Besides, they could always rank their members in order of importance. E.g Framer < Prankster < Consigliere.

It can be major if you end up having some clashing personalities put together in the Mafia team. But that may never happen either way. And...if they don't come together as a team, they'll likely lose.
It shouldn't be a problem, but it was worth pointing out to me.

[LeScraf]

That doesn't really sound major. Mafia has always cooperated on who-should-target-who from the start. There shouldn't be a problem to choose someone for killing. Besides, they could always rank their members in order of importance. E.g Framer < Prankster < Consigliere.

It can be major if you end up having some clashing personalities put together in the Mafia team. But that may never happen either way. And...if they don't come together as a team, they'll likely lose.
It shouldn't be a problem, but it was worth pointing out to me.

Remember in ASG when Rick and Arckas were like two clashing bulls (with an image I made )? If two people clash like that on a Mafia team, they'll lose and most likely sacrifice a kill. Or two. Or all of them.

[TheCow]

To be fair, if any mafia is unable to come together as a team, they will likely lose. Big plays, or good plays for that matter, only work if the mafia trust one another to play properly and to follow whatever plans they make. If they mafia do not trust one another, or have major conflations such as personalities, they will probably lose anyway.

The Mafioso you present, met, I feel is slightly redundant. The Mafioso does have the advantage of becoming any one of the Mafia's current roles, but wouldn't a mafia rather have a role with an ability from the start? Perhaps giving it 1 time strongman/1 time ninja would make more sense, and fill the whole "tactical" description.

Another mafia tactical could be the Jack of All Trades, which would fill the role of the proposed mafioso, in that it expands on the mafia's current ability set.

[Metrion]

Probably this then:

Spoiler:

Mafioso

You are a Mafioso

Your alignment is Mafia Tactical

You're a goon, following your Godfather's every command.
It's not all bad though, because when a higher placement opens up in the Mafia you'll be the first to take it.

Each night you may choose 1 member of the Mafia to shadow. You will carry out their job that night on any target you wish.
You may only do this once per player in the Mafia.
Shadowing a Mafia Head role only grants you their specific passive(s). Night immunity is not applicable.
If a member of the Mafia dies you may permanently assume that role if you wish at any time.
You can communicate with your allies each night, for as long as they are alive.

Your allies are [x] the [role], and [x] the [role]

You win with the Mafia
You win with Survivors
You win with Witches
You must kill the Town
You must kill Arsonists
You must kill Serial Killers
You must kill Stalkers
You must kill Bombers
You may spare anyone else

We need more Roles for both new alignments, I think we have enough creativity though. We also sport the Underboss.

[spretznaz]

For the whole killing mechanic, is the order going to go down the mafia hierarchy (same as mafioso order or something)? Like, let's say, if both the GF and mafioso are blocked for whatever reason, the next mafia automatically kills?

[Metrion]

There would be no mafia hierarchy other then Godfather would probably have the final say in what is going on. If the Escort roleblocks the Mafia role who is killing then the kill is roleblocked it wouldn't shift to the available Mafia.

[LeScraf]

For the whole killing mechanic, is the order going to go down the mafia hierarchy (same as mafioso order or something)? Like, let's say, if both the GF and mafioso are blocked for whatever reason, the next mafia automatically kills?

This would destroy the usefulness of Escort.

[stellaluna]

Considering how every other game winds up a cakewalk for the town with the mafia locked out of killing anyone by an escort/jailor this is actually a really good idea.
An additional possible solution that I came up with earlier is to allow roleblocking roles to cancel out each other's night actions rather than being roleblock immune.

[Arckas]

An additional possible solution that I came up with earlier is to allow roleblocking roles to cancel out each other's night actions rather than being roleblock immune.

Wouldn't that essentially be the same thing as a role-block?