Discussion of Behavior Moderation

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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby Chemist1422 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:52 pm

as a player, yeet has strongly been growing on me as an unofficial replacement

as a host/mod, I just prefer to gravitate to whatever makes people more comfortable, usually I'll just use execute or say "[x] was..." after the final votecount because that gets the idea across without having to worry about the language choice

also final unofficial warning to keep things serious before I have to put on my mod hat
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby UzayAltay » Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:58 pm

Execute is literally incorrect (lore-wise) version of kill.
I have no idea about yeet though I would probably prefer kill Over yeet.
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby Brilliand » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:04 pm

Incidentally, can we ban the words "racist", "homophobic" and "transphobic" as slurs? They're clearly derogatory terms directed at a specific group of people. Granted, they're specifically counter-slurs directed at people who use slurs, but right now I'm hoping that doesn't matter.
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby ICECLIMBERS » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:10 pm

what specific group of people?
racist people??
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby Brilliand » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:15 pm

ICECLIMBERS wrote:what specific group of people?
racist people??


Presumably "racist" means the same thing as "racist", yes.

Though ideally we should describe them with a more clearly-defined phrase such as "people who harbor hatred toward specific races of people".
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby dolphina » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:16 pm

Brilliand wrote:Incidentally, can we ban the words "racist", "homophobic" and "transphobic" as slurs? They're clearly derogatory terms directed at a specific group of people. Granted, they're specifically counter-slurs directed at people who use slurs, but right now I'm hoping that doesn't matter.


They're usually used as descriptors, albeit negative descriptors in the search for equity. But banning these words would be like banning the phrase "You're a shitty person." I would ask instead to not use these words lightly or jokingly. Racism, homophobia, and transphobia are real, very serious issues.
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby dolphina » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:16 pm

I propose instead that if you see these words used in a joking manner, it could be reported.
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby Chemist1422 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:21 pm

Brilliand wrote:Incidentally, can we ban the words "racist", "homophobic" and "transphobic" as slurs? They're clearly derogatory terms directed at a specific group of people. Granted, they're specifically counter-slurs directed at people who use slurs, but right now I'm hoping that doesn't matter.

If you're going to argue in bad faith, I would recommend you quit now
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby itsmedash2 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:31 pm

I was asked to take the bait here so uh

hey racism bad or something idk
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby Brilliand » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:54 pm

dolphina wrote:But banning these words would be like banning the phrase "You're a shitty person."


Well no, the difference is that words such as "racist" put the person in a specific category which is hated for being that category, and it's actually more common for people to not understand what a "racist" actually is than to not understand that racists are to be hated.

Phrases are also much safer from being slurs than single words are, because they're much more likely to actually explain themselves and put the listener in a position of being able to make their own decision.

Chemist1422 wrote:If you're going to argue in bad faith, I would recommend you quit now


'Scuse me? This argument legitimately makes sense to me, if I presume that slurs should be dealt with at all (which I'm not entirely convinced of).

When I said I've been called things just as stupid as the word "snowflake", I was thinking of the word "transphobic". Knowing that, I think what you should do is reciprocate in trying to clean up hurtful ill-defined words applied to both sides of the conflict, but I suspect that what you'll actually do is hate me because I've been called a transphobe. (And yet I still don't know what the word means... :cry: )
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby dolphina » Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:34 pm

Brilliand wrote:
dolphina wrote:But banning these words would be like banning the phrase "You're a shitty person."


Well no, the difference is that words such as "racist" put the person in a specific category which is hated for being that category, and it's actually more common for people to not understand what a "racist" actually is than to not understand that racists are to be hated.

Phrases are also much safer from being slurs than single words are, because they're much more likely to actually explain themselves and put the listener in a position of being able to make their own decision.

Chemist1422 wrote:If you're going to argue in bad faith, I would recommend you quit now


'Scuse me? This argument legitimately makes sense to me, if I presume that slurs should be dealt with at all (which I'm not entirely convinced of).

When I said I've been called things just as stupid as the word "snowflake", I was thinking of the word "transphobic". Knowing that, I think what you should do is reciprocate in trying to clean up hurtful ill-defined words applied to both sides of the conflict, but I suspect that what you'll actually do is hate me because I've been called a transphobe. (And yet I still don't know what the word means... :cry: )


You didn't pay attention to the rest of my argument~

it sounds like you've been possessed by kokichi, I will assist
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby TrueGent » Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:06 pm

havent really read this thread much but just gonna throw this out here that if you are seriously arguing to keep the word lynch as opposed to phasing it out then you really need to take a long hard look at yourself
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby Varanus » Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:15 pm

Game Moderator Message: Multiple people have decided to troll in this thread. Multiple people have been added to denyfm. Some of them still have their posts left up, others were deleted.
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby ScorpioDiAngelo » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:58 pm

Brilliand wrote:Incidentally, can we ban the words "racist", "homophobic" and "transphobic" as slurs? They're clearly derogatory terms directed at a specific group of people. Granted, they're specifically counter-slurs directed at people who use slurs, but right now I'm hoping that doesn't matter.

Have you ever had someone spit in your face and tell you that you deserve to die because you're a homophobe? Ever been kicked and punched while someone screamed the word transphobe at you, as if that justified their abuse? Have you ever had to genuinely fear for your life because someone thought some unchangeable aspect of your person made you worthy of disdain, injury, or death?

No. You haven't. Don't pretend like you're being marginalized and discriminated against just because society is finally reaching a point where hate is not openly tolerated.
So yeah. Turns out that I'm not alright. Go figure.

Btw if I start acting really strange it's probably not me so just like ignore it.
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby dolphina » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:58 pm

Okay. I can't believe I'm doing this...

What is considered an acceptable insult?

Things like dumbass, shithead, motherfucker.

What is NOT considered an acceptable insult?

  • Slurs of any kind. (N-slur, f-slur, etc.)
  • Joking about serious topics to make an insult (racism, sexism, homophobia, etc.)
  • A personal insult that the person is not comfortable with at all. (References a personal issue.)
  • Sexual insults. We'd like to keep it PG-13, thank you.

What do I do if I see someone violate these rules?

Report them immediately to a FM moderator through Discord or ToS PMs. Make sure to list your message as urgent.

(This isn't official, since I'm not an FM mod. If any of the official mods would like to tweak this, feel free.)
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby James2 » Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:39 am

[Removed by moderator]
Last edited by Varanus on Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby James2 » Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:40 am

[Removed by moderator]
Last edited by Varanus on Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby James2 » Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:40 am

All things being equal I'd prefer to keep my posting privileges here. But it won't seriously bother me if I'm banned (as others in this thread have already been), and it will prove me right.
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby cob709 » Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:08 am

I'm usually joking around but I'll contribute to this thread in a serious tone.

Alright so here's the thing: Insults are by definition intended to be negative or offensive. But I do agree that some can still be too extreme.
Well, in general insults are just overall bad, but we can't force everyone to stop insulting each other.
Banning a bunch of words is very unlikely to actually solve the problem, as that will motivate the player to further be insulting and work around the rules.
Perhaps it is a better solution to heavily discourage toxic behavior, over trying to ban players for a quick solution.

Banning players and deleting posts will temporarily solve the problem, but the community will still be toxic.
Our goal should be try to calm everyone down, and be happy with the community.
Forums exist because they're enjoyable, so let's make sure they stay enjoyable.
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby Varanus » Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:16 am

Worth noting: the reason people are getting banned is because they aren't fm players, but are deciding to show up here anyway to troll the thread with their hot takes
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby 0verki11 » Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:12 am

James2 wrote:[Removed by moderator]

thanks James very cool!
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby dolphina » Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:38 am

I hope the above post gets deleted soon and the person is added to denyfm
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby lemonader666 » Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:40 am

cob709 wrote:I'm usually joking around but I'll contribute to this thread in a serious tone.

Alright so here's the thing: Insults are by definition intended to be negative or offensive. But I do agree that some can still be too extreme.
Well, in general insults are just overall bad, but we can't force everyone to stop insulting each other.
Banning a bunch of words is very unlikely to actually solve the problem, as that will motivate the player to further be insulting and work around the rules.
Perhaps it is a better solution to heavily discourage toxic behavior, over trying to ban players for a quick solution.

Banning players and deleting posts will temporarily solve the problem, but the community will still be toxic.
Our goal should be try to calm everyone down, and be happy with the community.
Forums exist because they're enjoyable, so let's make sure they stay enjoyable.

this tbh
Toxicity is inherent in FM (I believe the main problem is that committing to games makes the player more emotionally invested in those games, thus making them susceptible to saying indecent things to the other players they think/feel are not being as committed to playing the game as them or those they think/feel are not on the same page as the player in question), so dictating which words people can and cannot say is merely a bandaid to a larger problem.
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby Chemist1422 » Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:01 am

dolphina wrote:I hope the above post gets deleted soon and the person is added to denyfm

Game Moderator Message: step one is done, step two will likely occur once var wakes up
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Re: Discussion of Behavior Moderation

Postby dolphina » Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:18 am

Cool beans, chemmy-boy
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