NE Wincons

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NE Wincons

Postby ICECLIMBERS » Sun Dec 15, 2019 9:49 pm

Neutral Evil win conditions are silly. It's something that we've never fully changed over the years, as the current win condition hasn't caused much controversy. However, Kleptomaniac and other assorted non-Warlock NEs have been used in games on-and-off since early 2016, so a change is overdue.

I am reminded of SFM9 when Cow was lynched at the end as Witch and lost while the game was almost entirely guaranteed for mafia to win. The best counterargument I can think of (aside from the ToS legacy) is that, since the role is neutral, they need to rely on themselves to win. While this is fine with Executioner, we have changed NE to be anti-town roles with more flexibility and power than mafia traitors.

Currently we compensate Witch with a 1-shot shield, but Kleptomaniac- a weaker role- has to rely on a protective or a night immune to die for protection. I think it's be better to give both of them the Warlock's ability to win, even in death.

Since the Witch's shield would be somewhat redundant, it could be changed the version I used in 14D:

Spoiler:
Witch

You are a Witch.

Your alignment is Neutral Evil.

You hate these townsfolk. Every last one of them. They act like witches are evil, not realizing the great things your magic can do.
You'll show them, you'll show them all how powerful your magic is! They'll pay for forcing you to hide like this!

Every night you can choose somebody to control and somebody who you want your controlled player to use their ability on.
You won't be informed of the end result of your controlling or even if the one you controlled had an ability to use at all!
You'll have to pay close attention to learn people's abilities and use them to make the townsfolk suffer.
Your expertise in magic also taught you defensive spells. You have perfected a magical immunity shield, which shrouds your body.
It will discharge the instant you are attacked without protection. The shield will only work against the Mafia and the Arsonist.
Once the shield has discharged these attacks will harm you, like any other non-magic user.
The attacker will only know of your immunity to their attack or douse.
You are immune to being roleblocked.

You win with Witches
You win with the Mafia
You win with Arsonists
You must kill the Town


This protects it from any scum attacks, but allows town kiling roles to bypass the shield. In 14D, the Witch counterclaimed the Doctor on D1, resulting in the death of a powerful town PR at the very start. While this was strategically a poor decision, (the Vigilante shot them the next night) this example showcases how a change like this allows for the witch to play more aggressively while not punishing the Vigilante for making the correct shot.
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Re: NE Wincons

Postby Varanus » Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:14 pm

Abolish NKs, convert all NEs to mafia traitors
You were expecting a decent signature...

BUT IT WAS ME! DIO!
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Re: NE Wincons

Postby Kmenx » Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:32 pm

Cow getting dunked on in SFM9 was epic
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Re: NE Wincons

Postby ZoruaLuhansk » Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:48 pm

ICECLIMBERS wrote:While this was strategically a poor decision,

B)
Though all are free in name
They are slaves to barbarism in truth
For when they are not held by desires, God is freed

-My Greek Textbook
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Re: NE Wincons

Postby Flake » Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:22 am

Varanus wrote:Abolish NKs, convert all NEs to mafia traitors

y
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