Potential Neutral Killing Concept to Test (Predator)

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Re: Potential Neutral Killing Concept to Test

Postby TheDebil » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:03 pm

Flake wrote:UPDATE:

Changed the Gourmand's name to Anthropophagus, and made some minor updates to the lore of the role.

This role's name and lore may be liable to change in the future; feel free to provide feedback on this. Thanks.

what a mouthful
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Re: Potential Neutral Killing Concept to Test

Postby TheDebil » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:04 pm

ba dump tss
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Town Win Percentage: 11%
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Re: Potential Neutral Killing Concept to Test

Postby Flake » Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:11 pm

TheDebil wrote:
Flake wrote:UPDATE:

Changed the Gourmand's name to Anthropophagus, and made some minor updates to the lore of the role.

This role's name and lore may be liable to change in the future; feel free to provide feedback on this. Thanks.

what a mouthful

Yeah, I guess so

Two other names I'm thinking of atm that might be better are "Predator" and "Savage", I personally prefer the former

Anyone got any other ideas? I'm looking for something which fits the lore I've already given
FM Record: 6 - 2
Spoiler: VFM48: Mafia Goon - Win (Lived, Replaced in N5)
17F: Bodyguard - Win (Lived)
VFM46: Mafia Goon - Win (Lived)
17D: Mafia Vig - Win (Died N2)
SFM47: Parity Cop - Win (Lived)
16E: Veteran - Loss (Endgamed)
VFM37: Citizen - Loss (Lynched D2)
16C: Arsonist - Win (Lived)
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Re: Potential Neutral Killing Concept to Test

Postby Flake » Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:27 pm

UPDATE:

Hopefully the last name update; changed name from Anthropophagus to Predator. Again, feel free to give feedback on the role's name, or anything else you wish to give feedback on. Thanks.
FM Record: 6 - 2
Spoiler: VFM48: Mafia Goon - Win (Lived, Replaced in N5)
17F: Bodyguard - Win (Lived)
VFM46: Mafia Goon - Win (Lived)
17D: Mafia Vig - Win (Died N2)
SFM47: Parity Cop - Win (Lived)
16E: Veteran - Loss (Endgamed)
VFM37: Citizen - Loss (Lynched D2)
16C: Arsonist - Win (Lived)
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Re: Potential Neutral Killing Concept to Test

Postby Kirize12 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:42 pm

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Re: Potential Neutral Killing Concept to Test

Postby Flake » Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:37 am

Kirize12 wrote:No papa

Can we not make posts like this

Thanks
FM Record: 6 - 2
Spoiler: VFM48: Mafia Goon - Win (Lived, Replaced in N5)
17F: Bodyguard - Win (Lived)
VFM46: Mafia Goon - Win (Lived)
17D: Mafia Vig - Win (Died N2)
SFM47: Parity Cop - Win (Lived)
16E: Veteran - Loss (Endgamed)
VFM37: Citizen - Loss (Lynched D2)
16C: Arsonist - Win (Lived)
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Re: Potential Neutral Killing Concept to Test (Predator)

Postby Phone0Ix » Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:04 am

I actually like the role and name btw. If I didn't submit Nfmnfm as standard I could consider putting it in
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FM stats:
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2 * TI
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4 * Maf
Note: In role madness I chose alignment that was most like role. Further the Double>Fruit Vendor>BG was counted as TP
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Also look this link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
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Re: Potential Neutral Killing Concept to Test (Predator)

Postby Flake » Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:15 pm

Phone0Ix wrote:I actually like the role and name btw. If I didn't submit Nfmnfm as standard I could consider putting it in

Thanks! And yeah I'll try and look for someone to host a game with it
FM Record: 6 - 2
Spoiler: VFM48: Mafia Goon - Win (Lived, Replaced in N5)
17F: Bodyguard - Win (Lived)
VFM46: Mafia Goon - Win (Lived)
17D: Mafia Vig - Win (Died N2)
SFM47: Parity Cop - Win (Lived)
16E: Veteran - Loss (Endgamed)
VFM37: Citizen - Loss (Lynched D2)
16C: Arsonist - Win (Lived)
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Re: Potential Neutral Killing Concept to Test (Predator)

Postby TheWabbit » Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:11 pm

i could probably do it
     


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Re: Potential Neutral Killing Concept to Test (Predator)

Postby IAmAMunchlax » Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:42 pm

just bring back stalker
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Re: Potential Neutral Killing Concept to Test (Predator)

Postby ICECLIMBERS » Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:25 pm

IAmAMunchlax wrote:just bring back stalker

:BlobStop:
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Re: Potential Neutral Killing Concept to Test (Predator)

Postby Flake » Sat Mar 23, 2019 3:44 pm

Me and TheWabbit are planning on testing out Predator in our own game; feel free to test out Predator in your own games still though!
FM Record: 6 - 2
Spoiler: VFM48: Mafia Goon - Win (Lived, Replaced in N5)
17F: Bodyguard - Win (Lived)
VFM46: Mafia Goon - Win (Lived)
17D: Mafia Vig - Win (Died N2)
SFM47: Parity Cop - Win (Lived)
16E: Veteran - Loss (Endgamed)
VFM37: Citizen - Loss (Lynched D2)
16C: Arsonist - Win (Lived)
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Re: Potential Neutral Killing Concept to Test (Predator)

Postby Rickdaily12 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:19 pm

Spoiler: I really don't see the point in giving my two cents on this, but I'm going to do it anyway.

In my opinion, this Neutral Killing variant is fine on paper. I really don't care either way for the people complaining that it's better than Serial Killer, because quite frankly, if you're the only person with an NK alignment that isn't Serial Killer, you were never going to have fun in the game in the first place.

Sorry to derail your thread a little bit, Flake, with what I'm about to say next:

The issue at hand seems to be how hosts handle themselves when using Neutrals at all. The attitude that Neutrals exist only to kingmake, and so the only sensible approach to them is to nuke the ever loving fuck out of them when their utility is exhausted is exactly why there are dozens of players who get annoyed at ever rolling the alignment in the first place. When you're a Serial Killer, staring down a loaded 5 man Mafia and a 13 man Town filled with PRs, how do you ever as a host justify to that Serial Killer your game in a way that doesn't revolve around 18 people getting to have fun at the sheer misery of one other person?

The reason why my games way back in 2014 always had 4-5 neutrals with the allowance of multiple Neutral Killings was twofold: one, it instills so much chaos that LyLo becomes redundant for the Town. Mafia can't just open wolf because they don't have the power to put down the Town without being wiped out. This is because the Neutral Killers and Mafia have to cross fire on each other, so Town will always have a chance to win the LyLo back- especially if they have a bunch of PRs on their side, so if you're someone who enjoys the fun of the chaos of a game filled with Night Actions, you'd enjoy the lower emphasis on the vanilla aspect like we had back then.

But most importantly, the other major reason that many neutrals existed back then was because Neutral as an alignment fucking sucks to roll. You're Scum, but you're designed to be scum in a way that makes it hard for the Mafia to just curbstomp the Town. This often results in you kingmaking, and site meta became extremely anti-this once 2016 came along.

To combat this, hosts typically just threw in a witch and a SK and made the lives of every fucking person who rolled Neutral miserable. Survivor was no longer allowed to roll, and every other Neutral just leaves the game upon completion of their objective, further punishing the Neutrals that don't. So take it from me. Half the games I played in, I was Neutral. I only recently lost my first game as neutral and I have hated the journey through most of them, but especially so with the recent attitudes on the game.

You can come up with all the Neutral Variants that you want. You can make them as good as Serial Killer (and honestly, we should strive to do this more), but if Hosts keep using the Neutral Alignment as a utility to combat a larger Town, rather than to give that role an actual fighting chance to defeat both groups of the Town and Mafia, then there is never going to be a substantial group of people who are going to enjoy playing within the alignment, and which is why hosts shouldn't even bother doing this in the first place. If you think Mafia is too weak, instead of making a Serial Killer miserable and giving them a free loss, just give the Mafia another member who grants them a second kill power. If you actually want to use Neutrals, then include them so that they can cooperate with either the Town, Mafia, or other Neutrals. Let them pick sides, especially for the sake that the Neutral Killers have no one else to turn to.

It's really not that hard. Either stop pissing on the Neutral Alignment, or don't use it all and make your Mafia stronger.

/rant
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Re: Potential Neutral Killing Concept to Test (Predator)

Postby TrueGent » Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:43 am

"Guys neutral isnt fun to play"
"Guys why cant survivor roll"
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Re: Neutral Killing Concept to Test (Predator)

Postby Flake » Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:42 pm

Does anyone have any more suggestions for improvement?
FM Record: 6 - 2
Spoiler: VFM48: Mafia Goon - Win (Lived, Replaced in N5)
17F: Bodyguard - Win (Lived)
VFM46: Mafia Goon - Win (Lived)
17D: Mafia Vig - Win (Died N2)
SFM47: Parity Cop - Win (Lived)
16E: Veteran - Loss (Endgamed)
VFM37: Citizen - Loss (Lynched D2)
16C: Arsonist - Win (Lived)
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Re: Neutral Killing Concept to Test (Predator)

Postby lemonader666 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:42 am

It's a fuckin' buffed sk mate
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Re: Neutral Killing Concept to Test (Predator)

Postby Flake » Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:35 am

lemonader666 wrote:It's a fuckin' buffed sk mate

"Arsonist is just a nerfed SK"

Spot the issue in your criticism here

Predator is stronger than SK, yes, but your criticism only holds if the two roles are not functionally dissimilar. This obviously does not hold, though; the way you go about playing a role which can potentially multi kill is likely to be very different to one that can only single kill. Emphasis on deciding whether you should single kill or multi kill and deciding when you should kill comes to mind, among other things.

Similarly, the way in which one goes about playing Arsonist is likely to be functionally dissimilar to SK in many cases. Emphasis on playing around "who do I think will die?" comes to mind.
Last edited by Flake on Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
FM Record: 6 - 2
Spoiler: VFM48: Mafia Goon - Win (Lived, Replaced in N5)
17F: Bodyguard - Win (Lived)
VFM46: Mafia Goon - Win (Lived)
17D: Mafia Vig - Win (Died N2)
SFM47: Parity Cop - Win (Lived)
16E: Veteran - Loss (Endgamed)
VFM37: Citizen - Loss (Lynched D2)
16C: Arsonist - Win (Lived)
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Re: Neutral Killing Concept to Test (Predator)

Postby Phone0Ix » Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:47 am

Good NK possibilities in FM:

Predator / ToS Arso / Odd night WW and only allignments flip (town/mafia/neutral) but WW will know full role

Opinions?

I mean it are more powerful roles than we have now, and Idk how to buff Stalker/Deto while it still has randomness
Hey I'm Julian, a fan from ToS! If you want to have my Discord username or play a game of ToS, just PM me!

FM stats:
9 * Citizen
5 * TP
2 * TI
2 * TS
4 * Maf
Note: In role madness I chose alignment that was most like role. Further the Double>Fruit Vendor>BG was counted as TP
7-11-2
Also look this link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
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Re: Neutral Killing Concept to Test (Predator)

Postby TheWabbit » Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:14 pm

Phone0Ix wrote:Good NK possibilities in FM:

Predator / ToS Arso / Odd night WW and only allignments flip (town/mafia/neutral) but WW will know full role

Opinions?

I mean it are more powerful roles than we have now, and Idk how to buff Stalker/Deto while it still has randomness

Stalker functions as a late-game punisher.
     


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Re: Neutral Killing Concept to Test (Predator)

Postby lemonader666 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:05 pm

Also many of your arguments rely heavily on the assumption that this role is only intended to be an entirely new NK role, which is not true

Role discarded
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Re: Neutral Killing Concept to Test (Predator)

Postby Flake » Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:29 pm

lemonader666 wrote:
Also many of your arguments rely heavily on the assumption that this role is only intended to be an entirely new NK role, which is not true

Role discarded

The concept can be used as a variant of Serial Killer or as a role on it's own depending upon what option the FM community sees most fit. Neither option renders the concept discarded.
FM Record: 6 - 2
Spoiler: VFM48: Mafia Goon - Win (Lived, Replaced in N5)
17F: Bodyguard - Win (Lived)
VFM46: Mafia Goon - Win (Lived)
17D: Mafia Vig - Win (Died N2)
SFM47: Parity Cop - Win (Lived)
16E: Veteran - Loss (Endgamed)
VFM37: Citizen - Loss (Lynched D2)
16C: Arsonist - Win (Lived)
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Re: Neutral Killing Concept to Test (Predator)

Postby lemonader666 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:38 pm

Flake wrote:
lemonader666 wrote:
Also many of your arguments rely heavily on the assumption that this role is only intended to be an entirely new NK role, which is not true

Role discarded

The concept can be used as a variant of Serial Killer or as a role on it's own depending upon what option the FM community sees most fit. Neither option renders the concept discarded.

So this thread doesn't matter at all. Noted.
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Re: Neutral Killing Concept to Test (Predator)

Postby Flake » Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:08 am

lemonader666 wrote:
Flake wrote:
lemonader666 wrote:
Also many of your arguments rely heavily on the assumption that this role is only intended to be an entirely new NK role, which is not true

Role discarded

The concept can be used as a variant of Serial Killer or as a role on it's own depending upon what option the FM community sees most fit. Neither option renders the concept discarded.

So this thread doesn't matter at all. Noted.

whatever floats your boat
FM Record: 6 - 2
Spoiler: VFM48: Mafia Goon - Win (Lived, Replaced in N5)
17F: Bodyguard - Win (Lived)
VFM46: Mafia Goon - Win (Lived)
17D: Mafia Vig - Win (Died N2)
SFM47: Parity Cop - Win (Lived)
16E: Veteran - Loss (Endgamed)
VFM37: Citizen - Loss (Lynched D2)
16C: Arsonist - Win (Lived)
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Re: Neutral Killing Concept to Test (Predator)

Postby Kirize12 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:00 pm

I got the horses in the back
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Re: Potential Neutral Killing Concept to Test (Predator)

Postby TheWabbit » Sun May 05, 2019 10:44 am

Update: game's on the queue now
     


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