18B | Sof - Town wins!

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Re: 18B | Day 1

Postby TheWabbit » Sat May 18, 2019 2:46 am

EvilDeanius0 wrote:
TheWabbit wrote:we're running the technicalities

- hypoclaiming is for losers, we're not doing that
- only claim witched on D2, this is to just confirm the existence of a witch
- only claim doused if someone claims roleblocked

no objections

Someone didn't read the OP

yes i didn't
     


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Re: 18B | Day 1

Postby woahah » Sat May 18, 2019 2:50 am

GrumpyGoomba wrote:Guys guys guys. We are all obviously forgetting who the real scum are. By squabbling amongst ourselves we are playing right into their hands.

/Vote Royee

Also *pets axotl*

owo
jammingduck wrote:@Nightmare Why are you voting Betel ?
@woahah Why is that a good vote?

Because it helps you towards your goal.
GrumpyGoomba wrote:No. Ducks are evil. Poor snek... :(

My vote is even more unjustified.
Watt2015 wrote:A quick note about WW theory and how I will play this game. Note that the arguments and facts presented here are indisputable, and that I will not engage in arguments about them, because those arguments are you wasting everyone else's time about meta that is well and comprehensively established. Go make reads so we can read you.

I've reflected on my role and realized that there is a GTO play for me in this game, and therefore I am compelled to pursue it. I am going to brute force my clearness immediately upon the opening of the thread.

I am hard-claiming, I am the doc.

Benefits:

1. I will survive tonight: I do not believe the wolves are able to kill me tonight, because it is so objectively unlikely that I would ever do this as the doc. I believe that this decision reduces the importance of the doc cover to be provided by all of you to the point of it being negligible. The wolves have already been outplayed, as it were.

2. I'm lock clear: All of you already know I'm lock clear, because it is so objectively unlikely that I would do this as a wolf. You know this for at least two reasons. First, this is the easiest, lowest-stress, lowest-demand game to wolf in that I've ever played in (except for turbos). I have no need to complicate my life, as a wolf, by open-claiming on thread open, when all Ihave to do is provide like a C-level wolf game to probably win. This is the rare instance where you literally know that I have a billion other options as a wolf, AND that I would pursue probably ALL of them before pursuing this. Second, I engage in FPS exceedingly rarely, which necessarily means that I *know* that this will look WEIRD and SHOCKING to you. There is no merit to a wolf play that instantly generates WEIRD and SHOCKED responses that I would be obligated to finesse and manage for the remainder of the game. As a villager, which I am, the burden is totally on you to not $#@! up and lynch me. Makes my life super awesome.

3. There are only 12 players you need to try to read, rather than 13: I have already provided a "free" check of me in a game with a mere 13 players. Our win equity is dramatically improved by my being entirely off the table for the entire game.

Conclusion:

The burden of sound reasoning is now entirely upon you. I am the doc, and thus a villager, and thus lock clear. The game is immediately simpler than it would otherwise have been, because of my decision. Now, let us enjoy that benefit and win the game.

Also, to preempt a lengthy and pointless discussion.

It is NOT dumb to ponder this post and convince yourself of its wisdom. That is your obligation as a villager, and I encourage you to think it over for as long as it takes to quell your (initially valid but ultimately unnecessary) concerns.

It IS dumb to, AFTER doing that pondering, conclude that I'm "neutral" or "wolfy." That is legitimately stupid, and I won't entertain it. ONE of the reasons it is a stupid conclusion is that the upside of this play as a wolf is absolutely DWARFED by the upside of this play as a villager. There is no equivalency between the EV gain for wolf-me in this position and villager-me in this position. They're universes apart. That means I wouldn't DO the poorer option of the two (by extension, wolf-me also wouldn't BELIEVE that I could convince the entire game of the truth of these assertions for the entire game, which as an end-game wolf I would have to believe if this strategem were to be worth pursuing). A SECOND reason that conclusion is stupid is that the EV bonus of doing this as a wolf is COMPLETELY DWARFED by me baseline wolf EV anyway. Anything that complicates my wolfing life is RIDICULOUSLY stupid for me to do, given that my wolfing life is ALREADY one of the smoothest, highest expectation wolfing lives in WW history anyway. A THIRD reason that conclusion is stupid is that you would probably have to worry about being EXPLOITED by this gambit in order to get there. However, I have NEVER engaged in this, or any similar, gambit in my entire career, meaning that if there IS exploitation to be had with this play, it is in FUTURE GAMES, not this game. For these reasons, pressuring me is extremely wolfy and should not be engaged in by any villager, ever, in this game. There will be no less productive pursuit than that in this game.

Sucks for the wolves when meta is wielded this brutally, but my allegiance is plain and my strategy perfect. Get #rekt.

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Re: 18B | Day 1

Postby Royee » Sat May 18, 2019 2:59 am

ZoruaLuhansk is replacing Kreaal
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Re: 18B | Day 1

Postby Royee » Sat May 18, 2019 3:09 am

Current Vote Count
Player Votes Voters
  # Votes Until Majority

Not voting:
EvilDeanius0,Phone0Ix,Kmenx,ZoruaLuhansk,tfiosforevah,TheLastEvangelist,watchme1
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Re: 18B | Day 1

Postby NightmareMoon » Sat May 18, 2019 3:31 am

jammingduck wrote:@Nightmare Why are you voting Betel ?


i can't pretend to have super-sophisticated reasoning - i've never played forum mafia before - but the others' reasons for finding betelgeuse suspicious seem valid enough. obviously if it was purely because they voted for me, i would have voted rather earlier.
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Re: 18B | Day 1

Postby TheWabbit » Sat May 18, 2019 3:41 am

NightmareMoon wrote:
jammingduck wrote:@Nightmare Why are you voting Betel ?


i can't pretend to have super-sophisticated reasoning - i've never played forum mafia before - but the others' reasons for finding betelgeuse suspicious seem valid enough. obviously if it was purely because they voted for me, i would have voted rather earlier.

spoiler alert: it's not valid

at all
     


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Re: 18B | Day 1

Postby NightmareMoon » Sat May 18, 2019 3:43 am

TheWabbit wrote:
NightmareMoon wrote:
jammingduck wrote:@Nightmare Why are you voting Betel ?


i can't pretend to have super-sophisticated reasoning - i've never played forum mafia before - but the others' reasons for finding betelgeuse suspicious seem valid enough. obviously if it was purely because they voted for me, i would have voted rather earlier.

spoiler alert: it's not valid

at all


why?
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Re: 18B | Day 1

Postby Kmenx » Sat May 18, 2019 3:55 am

NightmareMoon wrote:
jammingduck wrote:@Nightmare Why are you voting Betel ?


i can't pretend to have super-sophisticated reasoning - i've never played forum mafia before - but the others' reasons for finding betelgeuse suspicious seem valid enough. obviously if it was purely because they voted for me, i would have voted rather earlier.

At least you admit to a sheep read that's something
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Re: 18B | Day 1

Postby Kmenx » Sat May 18, 2019 3:57 am

NightmareMoon wrote:
TheWabbit wrote:
NightmareMoon wrote:
jammingduck wrote:@Nightmare Why are you voting Betel ?


i can't pretend to have super-sophisticated reasoning - i've never played forum mafia before - but the others' reasons for finding betelgeuse suspicious seem valid enough. obviously if it was purely because they voted for me, i would have voted rather earlier.

spoiler alert: it's not valid

at all


why?

Because his sheriff claim is joke claim and people random vote people at the beginning of day every day1 in any FM game
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Re: 18B | Day 1

Postby NightmareMoon » Sat May 18, 2019 3:58 am

hmmm. well, if random voting d1 is normal, then i will leave my vote up.
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Re: 18B | Day 1

Postby MrChuckleteeth » Sat May 18, 2019 4:17 am

/unvote

For the record I'm not gonna be as active today, just in case you don't see me a lot. I'll be back with a longer post regarding a few things I read since my last post.
NFM65 - Investigator Win
18B - Citizen Win
18C - Citizen Loss

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Re: 18B | Day 1

Postby spiderpoolcorps » Sat May 18, 2019 4:49 am

GrumpyGoomba wrote:Ah alrite. Also I would like the reasonings of spider for voting betel.

This is my first game- I was still thinking of this a TOS mindset, but now I've read more into resources Chemist gave me, I understand the differences.
Looking over this so far, random voting seems fairly typical for a D1.
/unvote
/vote GrumpyGoomba

I see no reason as of yet for you to defend a random vote so hard for a assumed joke claim.

Why shouldn't we be voting him up, over other people here?
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Re: 18B | Day 1

Postby GrumpyGoomba » Sat May 18, 2019 5:02 am

LOL.
Asking reason for vote =/= defending voted person
1. Don't edit my quotes to twist my words. I am fairly certain I asked this to 2 other people except you ad well.
2. Since there has been an uproar regarding the sheriff claim of betel, votes on them hardly seem random. It's funny how betel is the leading wagon rn and you call it random.
3. Why SHOULD we be voting him up, over other people here?

Your overdefensiveness on a simple question is causing you to slip lower in my current reads.
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Re: 18B | Day 1

Postby GrumpyGoomba » Sat May 18, 2019 5:03 am

GrumpyGoomba wrote:LOL.
Asking reason for vote =/= defending voted person
1. Don't edit my quotes to twist my words. I am fairly certain I asked this to 2 other people except you as well.
2. Since there has been an uproar regarding the sheriff claim of betel, votes on them hardly seem random. It's funny how betel is the leading wagon rn and you call it random.
3. Why SHOULD we be voting him up, over other people here?

Your overdefensiveness on a simple question is causing you to slip lower in my current reads.


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Re: 18B | Day 1

Postby spiderpoolcorps » Sat May 18, 2019 5:19 am

GrumpyGoomba wrote:LOL.
Asking reason for vote =/= defending voted person
1. Don't edit my quotes to twist my words. I am fairly certain I asked this to 2 other people except you ad well.
2. Since there has been an uproar regarding the sheriff claim of betel, votes on them hardly seem random. It's funny how betel is the leading wagon rn and you call it random.
3. Why SHOULD we be voting him up, over other people here?

Your overdefensiveness on a simple question is causing you to slip lower in my current reads.


1. I didn't edit it to try and twist your words, I was just trying to keep the quote at parts that were relevant to me, no malicious intent with that, apologies
2. Well past discussion as said it was random /shrug. The first vote was random at least, the others were following.
3. Because he started off the random voting, that was why I initally voted for him

I wasn't being overdefensive, just simply noticed that you were defending him out of no where
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Re: 18B | Day 1

Postby spiderpoolcorps » Sat May 18, 2019 5:28 am

spiderpoolcorps wrote:1. I didn't edit it to try and twist your words, I was just trying to keep the quote at parts that were relevant to me, no malicious intent with that, apologies
2. Well past discussion as said it was random /shrug. The first vote was random at least, the others were following.
3. Because he started off the random voting, that was why I initally voted for him

I wasn't being overdefensive, just simply noticed that you were defending him out of no where.

I guess it just seemed like defending, since I'm more used to TOS, and scum there usually question votes. Still have a lot to learn it seems :oops:

ebwop, I missed your edit
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Re: 18B | Day 1

Postby ZoruaLuhansk » Sat May 18, 2019 5:40 am

SHERIFF CLAIM IS NAI FFS
.



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Re: 18B | Day 1

Postby woahah » Sat May 18, 2019 5:45 am

ZoruaLuhansk wrote:SHERIFF CLAIM IS NAI FFS

what does this even mean
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Re: 18B | Day 1

Postby ZoruaLuhansk » Sat May 18, 2019 5:45 am

woahah wrote:
ZoruaLuhansk wrote:SHERIFF CLAIM IS NAI FFS

what does this even mean

The sheriff claim is not alignment indicative for f***s sake
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Re: 18B | Day 1

Postby ZoruaLuhansk » Sat May 18, 2019 5:51 am

Mandatory:
Spoiler: A quick note about WW theory and how I will play this game. Note that the arguments and facts presented here are indisputable, and that I will not engage in arguments about them, because those arguments are you wasting everyone else's time about meta that is well and comprehensively established. Go make reads so we can read you.

I've reflected on my role and realized that there is a GOAT play for me in this game, and therefore I am compelled to pursue it. I am going to brute force my clearness immediately upon the opening of the thread.

I am hard-claiming, I am the SK.

Benefits:

1. I will survive tonight: I do not believe the wolves are able to kill me tonight, because it is so objectively unlikely that I would ever do this as the SK. I believe that this decision reduces the importance of the SK cover to be provided by all of you to the point of it being negligible. The wolves have already been outplayed, as it were.

2. I'm lock clear: All of you already know I'm lock clear, because it is so objectively unlikely that I would do this as a villager. You know this for at least two reasons. First, this is the easiest, lowest-stress, lowest-demand game to play in that I've ever played in (except for turbos). I have no need to complicate my life, as a villager, by open-claiming on thread open, when all I have to do is provide like a C-level villa game to probably win. This is the rare instance where you literally know that I have a billion other options as a villager, AND that I would pursue probably ALL of them before pursuing this. Second, I engage in FPS exceedingly rarely, which necessarily means that I *know* that this will look WEIRD and SHOCKING to you. There is no merit to a villa play that instantly generates WEIRD and SHOCKED responses that I would be obligated to finesse and manage for the remainder of the game. As the SK, which I am, the burden is totally on you to not $#@! up and lynch me. Makes my life super awesome.

3. There are only 12 players you need to try to read, rather than 13: I have already provided a "free" check of me in a game with a mere 13 players. Our win equity is dramatically improved by my being entirely off the table for the entire game.

Conclusion:

The burden of sound reasoning is now entirely upon you. I am the SK, and thus not a villager, and thus lock clear. The game is immediately simpler than it would otherwise have been, because of my decision. Now, let us enjoy that benefit and win the game.

Also, to preempt a lengthy and pointless discussion.

It is NOT dumb to ponder this post and convince yourself of its wisdom. That is your obligation as a villager, and I encourage you to think it over for as long as it takes to quell your (initially valid but ultimately unnecessary) concerns.

It IS dumb to, AFTER doing that pondering, conclude that I'm "neutral" or "wolfy." That is legitimately stupid, and I won't entertain it. ONE of the reasons it is a stupid conclusion is that the upside of this play as a villager is absolutely DWARFED by the upside of this play as a wolf. There is no equivalency between the EV gain for wolf-me in this position and villager-me in this position. They're universes apart. That means I wouldn't DO the poorer option of the two (by extension, villager-me also wouldn't BELIEVE that I could convince the entire game of the truth of these assertions for the entire game, which as an end-game villa I would have to believe if this strategem were to be worth pursuing). A SECOND reason that conclusion is stupid is that the EV bonus of doing this as a villager is COMPLETELY DWARFED by me baseline villager EV anyway. Anything that complicates my townie life is RIDICULOUSLY stupid for me to do, given that my townie life is ALREADY one of the smoothest, highest expectation townie lives in WW history anyway. A THIRD reason that conclusion is stupid is that you would probably have to worry about being EXPLOITED by this gambit in order to get there. However, I have NEVER engaged in this, or any similar, gambit in my entire career, meaning that if there IS exploitation to be had with this play, it is in FUTURE GAMES, not this game. For these reasons, pressuring me is extremely wolfy and should not be engaged in by any villager, ever, in this game. There will be no less productive pursuit than that in this game.

Sucks for the wolves when meta is wielded this brutally, but my allegiance is plain and my strategy perfect. Get #rekt.
.



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Re: 18B | Day 1

Postby Chemist1422 » Sat May 18, 2019 5:51 am

Good morning Zori
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Re: 18B | Day 1

Postby ZoruaLuhansk » Sat May 18, 2019 5:53 am

Good morning Chemist
What have I replaced into
its like NFM all over again
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Re: 18B | Day 1

Postby woahah » Sat May 18, 2019 5:54 am

ZoruaLuhansk wrote:
woahah wrote:
ZoruaLuhansk wrote:SHERIFF CLAIM IS NAI FFS

what does this even mean

The sheriff claim is not alignment indicative for f***s sake

you dont specify at all do you
it only took a 'the' for it to actually make sense
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Re: 18B | Day 1

Postby Chemist1422 » Sat May 18, 2019 5:55 am

ZoruaLuhansk wrote:Good morning Chemist
What have I replaced into
its like NFM all over again

It's basically an NFM but your slot already broke like four FM rules

Just a normal day
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Re: 18B | Day 1

Postby ZoruaLuhansk » Sat May 18, 2019 5:56 am

woahah wrote:
ZoruaLuhansk wrote:
woahah wrote:
ZoruaLuhansk wrote:SHERIFF CLAIM IS NAI FFS

what does this even mean

The sheriff claim is not alignment indicative for f***s sake

you dont specify at all do you
it only took a 'the' for it to actually make sense

Mafbe you should've asked just for that instead of a general basket question?
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