VFM 49: SK win #rekt

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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby GrumpyGoomba » Tue May 14, 2019 6:28 am

I hope that through some magical luck the cop check is on me and it succeeds and I am hopefully cleared.
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Chemist1422 » Tue May 14, 2019 6:29 am

Can I PL Zucker
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby GrumpyGoomba » Tue May 14, 2019 6:34 am

Dash2 wrote:
GrumpyGoomba wrote:I hope that through some magical luck the cop check is on me and it succeeds and I am hopefully cleared.

"Pregame you must choose to be either immune to the Mafia Nightkill OR be immune to Vig/Cop."

A cit check isn't guaranteed unless the SK chose the former

Well shit ofcourse that'd be the case.
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Eragon1329 » Tue May 14, 2019 7:17 am

Wait what the hell

I’m still confused about the switch stuff

So let’s say a hypothetical
Mafia chooses to switch vigilante and cop off
But keep doctor

Serial killer can turn specific ones off and on, or they have to do ALL or NONE?
So let’s say serial killer switches
Does it become
-doc blocked
-cop/vigi unblocked?

Or

Is it whichever specific ones the serial killer chooses?
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Eragon1329 » Tue May 14, 2019 7:18 am

Zucker wrote:
GrumpyGoomba wrote:Welp ofcourse it isn't. I believe it to be a T/S with me as the T.


I think Cupcake is Town and potentially Doctor.
I’m not voting our PR.
If Cupcake dose get lynched and you don’t push anyone on the Wagon then I might just stop actually trying.
I won’t even Death Tunnel anymore.
Because at that point you want Town to lose not win.
So I’ll have a loss to my FM Record because for some reason Town wants a nice loss.
I can clearly see that some stuff Dash has said Town would never say but you all for some reason aren’t believing it.
So if Cupcake dose get Lynched and SK stops Mafia Switch. Vigilante Shoot Dash.


Bug off

/vote Zucker
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Eragon1329 » Tue May 14, 2019 7:19 am

You did this same fucking thing to 0verki11 in 17F

And he was scum

This is not a fucking good play

stop

Seriously
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Eragon1329 » Tue May 14, 2019 7:20 am

Ok

So it’s a complete switch

Thanks

Yes ok this game is like
WIFOM
but both wines are poison

P-edit: honesty I’m just doing it to make a point and Becuase I haven’t fully caught up yet
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Eragon1329 » Tue May 14, 2019 7:22 am

But yea
Catching up
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Eragon1329 » Tue May 14, 2019 7:27 am

Dash2 wrote:
Rickdaily12 wrote:
Dash2 wrote:By the way Rick, you said Flake was townie if I'm not mistaken, but besides getting into 2 arguments I can't really find much on him that's AI

It's more a meta read. Flake seems really natural and his progression feels pure to me. I agree that if we talk strictly about the substance that you wouldn't find much there, but based on how I've seen Flake carry himself in other games then he seems exactly like I normally see him to me.

I see. I got confused for a second.

Rickdaily12 wrote: From her point of view

Ok rick lowkey I have no idea why my gender was set on female but I'm actually a guy


Could also be teammystic set to female that rick remembers lol



Qvapil wrote:I was thinking a bit about the setup, and I believe lynching SK early benefits us simply because we reduce kpn. It's true that the prs are under mafia's control at that point but once we find a mafia member we'll have more options. I think having more townies alive (by reducing kpn) is more important than the prs, though take this with a grain of salt since I haven't played anything like this before.


I agree for a multitude of reasons
Main things
1)he KPN, which as chemistbhas previously said, puts us in a two sided mountainous with PR’s that become active N4
It’s townsided Becuase we would be at 10 v 3, which is pretty good numbers for a mountainous game
2) SK can still fuck with switched, either preventing mafia or preventing town, so getting rid of that gets rid of WIFOM

The problems
1) we have to lynch every mafia, instead of hoping the SK will scumhuny and kill them for us. Frankly, I don’t think this problem outweighs the benefit
2) we can’t stop mafia at all, again this is purely WIFOM
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Eragon1329 » Tue May 14, 2019 7:34 am

Qvapil wrote:Guys I don't think speculating about zucker/seth helps us solve the game. Could we do this afterwards?


is it bad I get towny vibes here

Dash2 wrote:Also I've been TRing Qva for a while now


ok cool

Dash2 wrote:
TeamMystic wrote:imagine using alts

oi fuck off mate you're supposed to be sleep


teammystic is the entity of sleep?

cool :3

Zucker wrote:Town Reads: Qva and Uzay
Scum Reads: at least one scum in Flake, Dash and Chemist.


scumreads

At least one in ____
good job
you just pulled the prospective percentages of pugnacious scum baseline
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Flake » Tue May 14, 2019 7:37 am

okay, i'll explain some of my more notable reads that people were previously questioning

also my reads are different to before after analysing more by quite a significant amount, and these ones have changed quite a lot especially

phone (slight town lean):
Spoiler: my phone town read is because in his scum meta he tends to be less laid back and more confident than he is here, like in VFM43 where he seems very stiff and has bursts of confidence on a read that wouldn't be strong coming from town!phone:

Phone0Ix wrote:Eragon you are town because you usually do a thing like this when you are town.


it's less "i feel this" and "i think that" when it comes to reads on people in his scum meta

additionally, scum!phone doesn't seem to be one to self meta when it doesn't benefit him, so I think scum!phone would just accept the town reads here:

Phone0Ix wrote:Also how did get Dash and Chemist a townread on me from that less posts?

tfios (town lean):
Spoiler: funnily enough tfios i believe has never opened as scum claiming a town role, but she does it fairly frequently as town and has then flipped town every time

additionally, her scum entrances usually are more an awkward attempt at being happy-go-lucky and doesn't claim (e.g in VFM46, SFM56, VFM47), but as town she just doesn't give as much of a shit and claim sometimes because lol (VFM48, 17F)

i'm actually kind of scared by how accurate this read probably is LOL

seth/zucker (strong town lean):
Spoiler: probably town for being an idiot, e.g trying to speculate on whether someone is cit or PR, making weird ass reads/tinfoils with no substance like "one of x, x, x is scum" with virtually nothing to back it up

they're just like playing in their town meta

also they somewhat ignore the fact that there's mafia day chat here:
Zucker wrote:
Dash2 wrote:Hey chemist I'm noticing a lack of reads from you, yet you are asking others to contribute


I don’t want this to be taken the wrong way.
But this is something I would tell my scum buddy to do.
“Hey I’ll ask you for Reads so we can try and lay off each other”
Just what I’d do personally so it could be wrong but I’m just saying this to point out your flip doesn’t make Chemist Town but rather more Scum because your Scum.
Chemist I’m still unsure of but as I said before he is leaning more Scum.


which makes them likely non-mafia

i doubt seth fakes that

rickdaily (null):
Spoiler: previously i was thinking that i had a potential scumtell on rick because of reasoning similar to the following:

"in his town games he seems to strive to push information from other people more than he does here by asking questions, and in his scum meta he tends to make his own progression without the help of others; he seems to be doing the latter over the former"

but after deeper analysis i don't think it holds anymore, so i'd probably put him at a null; i don't think the amount of progression he's put out thus far is enough for me to give him some sort of TR

i also don't think rick should be the lynch today because if he is town he'd be one of the better players endgame and in terms of progression, unless i or someone else finds a telling sr on him

chemist (town lean):

Spoiler: i change my mind on chemist, i didn't read some things in his iso

he's probably town for trying to progress the game:

Chemist1422 wrote:Numbers behind SK lynch D1:

11v3v1 -> 11v3

Let's say Cop and Vig are switched off, there's a 9% chance of 11v3 with 4 confirmed town (mafia hit doc heal), a 27% chance of 10v3 with 2 confirmed town (mafia hit PR) and a 63% chance of 10v3 with 3 confirmed town (mafia hit unhealed VT), as the PRs are basically ICs at this point. There's a chance the doc gets a successful heal on a PR, leading to 11v3 with 3 confirmed town, but that's of minimal impact

If Cop and Doc are switched off it's 27% chance of 10v3 with two conf town (mafia hit PR) and 72% chance of 10v3 with three conf town (mafia hit VT). Vig should holster in this scenario because a PR misfire is too risky

If Doc and Vig are switched off, I'll go into more detail on this once I puzzle out the math

If all three are switched off, we go into 11v3 with 3 confirmed town 100%

Chemist1422 wrote:I'm solidly townreading Eragon for combining mechanic talk with actually giving reads unprompted, I think as scum he'd avoid giving reads more

I think cupcake's posts are bad and I want to see them respond to pressure

I think Zucker is town by meta exclusively if it's Seth

Crimson is slightly towny by tone but I want to see more from them

Phone is genuinely solving and not self-aware at all, which is both townie and an improvement over his recent games

Dash2 wrote:Zucker literally cannot be mafia now because of that

Cool are we just gonna have everyone townslip


As scum he is usually more avoidant of progression and making meaningful interactions, and is more likely to go with the flow like in 17F
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Eragon1329 » Tue May 14, 2019 7:39 am

Spoiler:
Dash2 wrote:[spoiler]Mafia Cop Switch
Welcome . You are the Mafia Cop Switch , along with your partners, [Player Name] and [Player Name].

Factional communication: During the night phase you may talk with your partners here (Link)
Factional kill: Each night phase, one of you or your partners may perform the factional kill providing they aren't also using their switch.
Cop Switch: You may use the Cop Switch 3 times at night to deactivate the Cop for the night. Note: it's possible that the SK could reverse your decision.

You win when the Mafia obtain a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

Mafia Doctor Switch
Welcome. You are the Mafia Doctor Switch, along with your partners, [Player Name] and [Player Name].

Factional communication: During the night phase you may talk with your partners here (link)
Factional kill: Each night phase, one of you or your partners may perform the factional kill providing they aren't also using their switch.
Doctor Switch: You may use the Doctor Switch 3 times at night to deactivate the Doctor for the night. Note: it's possible that the SK could reverse your decision.

You win when the Mafia obtain a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring.


Mafia Vigilante Switch
Welcome. You are the Mafia Vigilante Switch , along with your partners, [Player Name] and [Player Name].


Factional communication: During the night phase you may talk with your partners here (Link)
Factional kill: Each night phase, one of you or your partners may perform the factional kill providing they aren't also using their switch.
Vig Switch: You may use the Vig Switch 3 times at night to deactivate the Vig for the night. Note: it's possible that the SK could reverse your decision.

You win when the Mafia obtain a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

Nowhere in the rolecards does it imply you can do both actions, so I'm gonna assume that you have to choose one or the other. There's essentially no real reason for Mafia Vig to not shoot, so that's already giving up one switch. As for Mafia cop, information is vital to them, so not using their cop is also a waste. That brings us down to the Mafia doctor. This one kind of depends on the situation, but I can see the switch being used here.


:Hide: :Innocent: :Hide:

ejjinami wrote:
Rickdaily12 wrote:By the way, everyone, what do we think about the tactic of trying to avoid lynching the SK? I'm a bit torn thinking over what exactly our approach this game should be.

Like, because of the whole situation with the switches and all of the WIFOM hell, it's probably really safe to assume that Night Plans this game on our end are going to be utterly useless. We ultimately have no control over any of the night actions that get sent and that end up working, as all of that utility ultimately gets negated by the scum. So really, like, I view this game as 11 cits versus a 3v1 scum faction. The only thing really going for us is that the SK will want the Mafia as dead as badly as we do and can screw with their abilities in a way that we can't. (Like really, I'm still pretty salty that we didn't end up getting more citizens or even a role that can flip switches too.)

So, because of this, we at least have an SK that can crosskill into Mafia, and screw with their switches for as long as the Mafia remain alive. Plus, as more Mafia die, we effectively get stronger over time, since this frees more of the PRs and basically undoes a vanillasizer on the PRs. But if we lynch the SK, Scum loses a KP, but then we almost basically guarantee Scum never cross killing into each other the moment SK dies, and that could be pretty devastating, especially if multiple PRs die before hitting ever hitting Mafia.

Is it also in the better interest of the SK if they try to help us get a few Cop checks to work? They can't outright murder the Town if Mafia remains at full power, so if they did everything in their power to help us find associations between mafia, it's in all of our benefit, right?

Basically I'm unsure how Town wins without us getting lucky on the Vig or without SK helping us kill at least one of the Mafia. Is anyone else familiar with this setup?

Well… the town won’t win this setup unless the SK helps us ):
and unless the SK is crazily confident that they’ll be able to get all scums lynched before that, they’re really unlikely to win as well…
So they basically have to kingmake help us

I don’t think aiming for a cross-kill or mafia-kill is good here though :/
The chances of that happening are small and unless the SK REALLY chooses his target’s with town’s benefits in mind, I would just lynch him.
Keeping them alive if they claim (before being lynched) MIGHT be ok depending on the circumstances (especially late game if there are a lot of mafia alive), but definitely not now.
It’s not like anyone here is likely to claim SK D1 anyway :/


we can also win if we kill the SK D1


Dash2 wrote:Assuming the SK is dead, mafia can just as easily use their cop to narrow down who is citizen and who is not, while the vig goes and shoots whoever



yep ok this isn't faked

Dash2 wrote:goddamn we'd have to lynch the mafia cop first in order to stand a chance at winning


lmfao
literally spewed not mafia
and spewed not neutral because of them not getting super angry rage

Dash2 wrote:It also occurred to me that in the event the Vig dies, Mafia has 3 choices to make instead of 2. So they could either be careful and have the doc heal the cop, or risk a shot and use a switch on the SK, while still betting on the fact that SK won't interfere.


lol
this is why sometimes its good that people didnt read the setup[/spoiler]
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Flake » Tue May 14, 2019 7:40 am

yeah jord slip def is not faked

they're like 99% chance town
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Flake » Tue May 14, 2019 7:41 am

also seth/zucker's non-mafia slip is likely real
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Eragon1329 » Tue May 14, 2019 7:42 am

Dash2 wrote:Lynching the SK is a controversial subject in this setup. Some people may want to utilize the PRs, while others believe that reducing the KPN is better than not having access to roles.

I was honestly on the former side, but thinking about it now, we have a ton of leads to go off of. Depending on today's flip, we could possibly easily be able to solve the game.


I think

if we Lynch the serial killer D1
its always worth it

but after D1
and on consequent days
lynching the serial killer gets worse and worse
because our numbers against mafia get lower
and we have no chance to kill them at night or reduce our PoE at night
which is what sk should try to do if they both survive and we mislynch
mafia can easily run away with this if there are too many 2 kill nights
but SK can kill mafia after they start getting a maj
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Flake » Tue May 14, 2019 7:43 am

i'd be supportive of a cupcake lynch

their iso is trash
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Eragon1329 » Tue May 14, 2019 7:44 am

currently top town are jord/Qvapil/goomba

I've explained jord
Qvapil I think just is tone, the posts ive brought up, and just a general feel about them
Goomba- I used this tell on another player in an NFM, when it was their first game, and just the effort and like, putting the knowledge into it and just trying and making reads and all that
is very very very towny for what would be a level 1 wolf
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Flake » Tue May 14, 2019 7:45 am

also they're probably not good endgame as town so decent PL
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Flake » Tue May 14, 2019 7:47 am

Eragon1329 wrote:currently top town are jord/Qvapil/goomba

I've explained jord
Qvapil I think just is tone, the posts ive brought up, and just a general feel about them
Goomba- I used this tell on another player in an NFM, when it was their first game, and just the effort and like, putting the knowledge into it and just trying and making reads and all that
is very very very towny for what would be a level 1 wolf

i kind of agree on goomba, but they could just be a good newbie, and same for qva tbh, they were very good in VFM48 imo for a new player especially

what do you think about the reads i posted?
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Eragon1329 » Tue May 14, 2019 7:48 am

Dash2 wrote:Ok so yeah Rick had the right mindset. Keep the SK alive or else 2 out of 3 of our PRs will be cits for the majority of the game. We can't rely solely on roles this game due to how chaotic the switch system is, so I expect we keep accurate reads.


thing is

if we Lynch the sk today

we go into a 10v3

with mountainous for 2 more nights

meaning, even lets assume that we mislynch twice in a row

6 v 3

so we have one night of all PR's guranteed to use their ability, if they are still alive
and we also have the numbers that mountainous is balanced, even without any PR's
of course, and scum lynches greatly decreases the chance of both PR dying and town dying overall
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Flake » Tue May 14, 2019 7:51 am

thing is, assuming we don't lynch SK and town goes after mafia

SK likely always uses the switch if town is successful in going after mafia so as to cripple town, since SK like always wants town and mafia to be on an even level to maximize chances of winning

tbh just lynch scum and it's always good ez
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Eragon1329 » Tue May 14, 2019 7:51 am

Flake wrote:
Eragon1329 wrote:currently top town are jord/Qvapil/goomba

I've explained jord
Qvapil I think just is tone, the posts ive brought up, and just a general feel about them
Goomba- I used this tell on another player in an NFM, when it was their first game, and just the effort and like, putting the knowledge into it and just trying and making reads and all that
is very very very towny for what would be a level 1 wolf

i kind of agree on goomba, but they could just be a good newbie, and same for qva tbh, they were very good in VFM48 imo for a new player especially

what do you think about the reads i posted?


the other dude was a good newbie
your point?
it doesn't matter if they are "good" or not
it matters that they are posting reads and putting work into the game, as a newbie that would more likely be slightly frozen, if not completely frozen, as scum.

My read on Qva stands whether they are the most experienced player in the game or not
their posts are just bloody towny
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Flake » Tue May 14, 2019 7:52 am

Dash2 wrote:
Eragon1329 wrote:currently top town are jord/Qvapil/goomba

I've explained jord
Qvapil I think just is tone, the posts ive brought up, and just a general feel about them
Goomba- I used this tell on another player in an NFM, when it was their first game, and just the effort and like, putting the knowledge into it and just trying and making reads and all that
is very very very towny for what would be a level 1 wolf

Heavy disagree on goomba

what do you think about these reads:

Flake wrote:okay, i'll explain some of my more notable reads that people were previously questioning

also my reads are different to before after analysing more by quite a significant amount, and these ones have changed quite a lot especially

phone (slight town lean):
Spoiler: my phone town read is because in his scum meta he tends to be less laid back and more confident than he is here, like in VFM43 where he seems very stiff and has bursts of confidence on a read that wouldn't be strong coming from town!phone:

Phone0Ix wrote:Eragon you are town because you usually do a thing like this when you are town.


it's less "i feel this" and "i think that" when it comes to reads on people in his scum meta

additionally, scum!phone doesn't seem to be one to self meta when it doesn't benefit him, so I think scum!phone would just accept the town reads here:

Phone0Ix wrote:Also how did get Dash and Chemist a townread on me from that less posts?

tfios (town lean):
Spoiler: funnily enough tfios i believe has never opened as scum claiming a town role, but she does it fairly frequently as town and has then flipped town every time

additionally, her scum entrances usually are more an awkward attempt at being happy-go-lucky and doesn't claim (e.g in VFM46, SFM56, VFM47), but as town she just doesn't give as much of a shit and claim sometimes because lol (VFM48, 17F)

i'm actually kind of scared by how accurate this read probably is LOL

seth/zucker (strong town lean):
Spoiler: probably town for being an idiot, e.g trying to speculate on whether someone is cit or PR, making weird ass reads/tinfoils with no substance like "one of x, x, x is scum" with virtually nothing to back it up

they're just like playing in their town meta

also they somewhat ignore the fact that there's mafia day chat here:
Zucker wrote:
Dash2 wrote:Hey chemist I'm noticing a lack of reads from you, yet you are asking others to contribute


I don’t want this to be taken the wrong way.
But this is something I would tell my scum buddy to do.
“Hey I’ll ask you for Reads so we can try and lay off each other”
Just what I’d do personally so it could be wrong but I’m just saying this to point out your flip doesn’t make Chemist Town but rather more Scum because your Scum.
Chemist I’m still unsure of but as I said before he is leaning more Scum.


which makes them likely non-mafia

i doubt seth fakes that

rickdaily (null):
Spoiler: previously i was thinking that i had a potential scumtell on rick because of reasoning similar to the following:

"in his town games he seems to strive to push information from other people more than he does here by asking questions, and in his scum meta he tends to make his own progression without the help of others; he seems to be doing the latter over the former"

but after deeper analysis i don't think it holds anymore, so i'd probably put him at a null; i don't think the amount of progression he's put out thus far is enough for me to give him some sort of TR

i also don't think rick should be the lynch today because if he is town he'd be one of the better players endgame and in terms of progression, unless i or someone else finds a telling sr on him

chemist (town lean):

Spoiler: i change my mind on chemist, i didn't read some things in his iso

he's probably town for trying to progress the game:

Chemist1422 wrote:Numbers behind SK lynch D1:

11v3v1 -> 11v3

Let's say Cop and Vig are switched off, there's a 9% chance of 11v3 with 4 confirmed town (mafia hit doc heal), a 27% chance of 10v3 with 2 confirmed town (mafia hit PR) and a 63% chance of 10v3 with 3 confirmed town (mafia hit unhealed VT), as the PRs are basically ICs at this point. There's a chance the doc gets a successful heal on a PR, leading to 11v3 with 3 confirmed town, but that's of minimal impact

If Cop and Doc are switched off it's 27% chance of 10v3 with two conf town (mafia hit PR) and 72% chance of 10v3 with three conf town (mafia hit VT). Vig should holster in this scenario because a PR misfire is too risky

If Doc and Vig are switched off, I'll go into more detail on this once I puzzle out the math

If all three are switched off, we go into 11v3 with 3 confirmed town 100%

Chemist1422 wrote:I'm solidly townreading Eragon for combining mechanic talk with actually giving reads unprompted, I think as scum he'd avoid giving reads more

I think cupcake's posts are bad and I want to see them respond to pressure

I think Zucker is town by meta exclusively if it's Seth

Crimson is slightly towny by tone but I want to see more from them

Phone is genuinely solving and not self-aware at all, which is both townie and an improvement over his recent games

Dash2 wrote:Zucker literally cannot be mafia now because of that

Cool are we just gonna have everyone townslip


As scum he is usually more avoidant of progression and making meaningful interactions, and is more likely to go with the flow like in 17F
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Flake » Tue May 14, 2019 7:56 am

Eragon1329 wrote:
Flake wrote:
Eragon1329 wrote:currently top town are jord/Qvapil/goomba

I've explained jord
Qvapil I think just is tone, the posts ive brought up, and just a general feel about them
Goomba- I used this tell on another player in an NFM, when it was their first game, and just the effort and like, putting the knowledge into it and just trying and making reads and all that
is very very very towny for what would be a level 1 wolf

i kind of agree on goomba, but they could just be a good newbie, and same for qva tbh, they were very good in VFM48 imo for a new player especially

what do you think about the reads i posted?


the other dude was a good newbie
your point?
it doesn't matter if they are "good" or not
it matters that they are posting reads and putting work into the game, as a newbie that would more likely be slightly frozen, if not completely frozen, as scum.


My read on Qva stands whether they are the most experienced player in the game or not
their posts are just bloody towny

what

putting in an effort, appearing townie and not being frozen are literally all signs of a good scum

so how does it not matter if they're good or not
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Eragon1329 » Tue May 14, 2019 7:58 am

Chemist1422 wrote:@Eragon
Effort has always been AI and if you try to say otherwise Watt will sub in and yell at you

Murphy's Law says Dash is SK but I'm not willing to go after this yet


what I mean

Effort is not strictly AI
Effort certainly can be AI, and is more likely AI when you are talking about the higher level of effort
but low effort is not necessarily AI, unless its meta/unusual

People slank, people low-post, people avoid thread for reasons
its not good
but its not neccesarily a scum thing either
Town does this just as much

Person A is good effort
Person B is low effort
this does not mean Person A is town and Person B is scum
it could be used to help a read
but in itself
it does not matter

cupcakeaj2 wrote:Oh ok then

Yeah I think Zucker = alt

Also he's literally "I don't like these things but I don't want to explain why"


:Thonk: :Thonk:

ok?
Spoiler:


TG/FM Records

28-30-6

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