VFM 49: SK win #rekt

[Qvapil]

You can take my claim seriously, or not, either way i never know how to enter so the naturalness doesn’t really indicate my alignment lol

This is more awkward than your entry in vfm 48. I'm a bit skeptical too.

[Qvapil]

Okay, what about it specifically are you not having?

Okay maybe I overthought it as last game you weren't pressured early on so I take back what I said.

[GrumpyGoomba]

Sigh... I know I am being extremely frustrating to deal with and I hate it. I just didn't know what else to do save claim my role and just come clean since I am town so I should have nothing to hide. Y'all are gonna hate me when flip town and thus I'm ashamed of myself. -_-

[Qvapil]

Oh I forgot I voted Uzay. I think they're town. Thanks rick.
/vote unvote

It was a joke vote though. I think your reaction was a bit too much.

whose reaction and whose vote?

-snip-

Rick scolded me for joke omgusing uzay

[Qvapil]

I'm trying to catch up while in class so it's going to be slow. I'll snip big quotes so as to not flood the thread too much.

[Qvapil]

Also given the SK's switches don't go down unless the Mafia used a switch makes this setup even more confusing

Oh I didn't notice that. I think you guys were right then and it's better to find mafia first. I thought SK could keep our prs off even if we killed maf. But either way, and seeing how many cit claims we have (regardless if we take them seriously or not), the prs have to survive a bit for them to do anything and with 2 kpn we just have to hope the sk townsides.

[Qvapil]

Also given the SK's switches don't go down unless the Mafia used a switch makes this setup even more confusing

Oh I didn't notice that. I think you guys were right then and it's better to find mafia first. I thought SK could keep our prs off even if we killed maf. But either way, and seeing how many cit claims we have (regardless if we take them seriously or not), the prs have to survive a bit for them to do anything and with 2 kpn we just have to hope the sk townsides.

No wait I just checked. The sk can switch by themselves and still negate the prs. So ig ore my last post

[Rickdaily12]

Just popping in to let everyone know, I planned on being on and about tonight, but that was before I had a migraine come on. I can barely think straight even with 800 mgs of Ibuprofen. So that's fun. So I'm just going to go to bed and try to sleep this off.

I might not be on until later in the afternoon unlees my plans get cancelled again, so don't expect me for a little while.

Good night, everyone.

[Qvapil]

does jord ever fake a townslip like that

i doubt it

scum never overlooks info on switches since they all actively partake in using them so

jord is like always town probably

I want to open A paranthesis , he only slipped not Maf .
Even though I am leaning on town , he can be SK .

Why do you guys think it's towny to not read the op? Scum can misread and not pay attention too. They don't have to tryhard immediately either.

[Qvapil]

-snip-

guys let me know when zucker isn't being useless I'm blocking him now

Isn’t it illegal to block someone participating?

No

Seriously?
That seems game throwable.

that’s most definitely not SvS

What isn't SvS and why?

[Qvapil]

Let's support more suspicious and horrible reads

To random vote or to not random vote?

/vote Uzay

Why did you randomly vote the widely townread person? You could have done a horrible and suspicious random read on literally anyone else.

[Qvapil]

Hmmmm

Let's look at more ISOs.

just read the damn game, please.

I did.

And everybody said everything I was going to say.

what were you going to say?
which posts do you agree with?
do you have any reads???

Let's support more suspicious and horrible reads

To random vote or to not random vote?

/vote Uzay

elaborate
and the previous question still stands, do you have any other reads?
don't just list them, say a word or 2 about each, please.

I'm really liking ejjinami, both their catchups and how they're trying to get cupcake to talk here.

[Qvapil]

-snip-

I'm trying to learn from my last game, and I think it's more telling to look at those who capitalise on others' questionable plays rather than those who misplay. That's why I'm against voting dash.

What. When did Dash capitalise, what. And that isn't a perfect science either.

No you misunderstood that. I was in favour of dash, whereas zucker, flake and goomba were against him. I know it's not a perfect science as well, I'm still learning and I'm trying stuff.

[ProtoZigg]

Having my own mini meme phase as I missed day start

/Vote zucker

[Qvapil]

The reason I asked this question was to test the waters on how everyone else feels about it, though. I like what I got from it.

Could you share your thoughts on our responses rick?

Sure.

Uzay's was hard to read just because of the language barrier, but I think it's pretty in line with the rest of the conversation that lucking out on the SK early enough leads to more breathing room if SK isn't around to kill things. It felt a bit automated though because I don't think he lends enough consideration to the disruption that SK can do to the Mafia later.
Dash, once he finally got around to it, (and rereading his post in hindsight of what he was posting on page 14) clearly misunderstood the Mafia abilities and is just Town as far as I care. His analysis otherwise isn't the greatest as a result, but this is covered later.
I like Chemist's answer the most from a "What to do" perspective, but I wish he broke down the numbers a bit more in order to convince everyone else to see things his way.
Flake more or less +1-ed Chemist, but whatever. I still kinda wanted his opinion in his own words.
Next came your answer, and I more or less explained why I TR you for it and explained why I even bothered asking the question in the first place.

I'm comfortable saying that I like a TR on you for purity and a lean on Chemist for the most sensible approach, everyone else's responses were more typical and didn't touch me as much. I could dive into the other responses after explaining what I wanted from this question if you want me to do that, but having said that, I see less of a point since I more or less told everyone what I was looking for. I definitely wouldn't trust any read on this basis after how I formed yours.

Thanks for clarifying, but I don't understand how you can read people based on how they view the setup. Town can just not be bothered to think and depend on the stronger players to do the analysis, while scum can try to push their agenda. How would you expect scum to answer you?

[Qvapil]

{Flake} - Lock Town
{}
{Dash2}
{}
{Phone0Ix}
{tfiosforevah, Qvapil, UzayAltay, Zucker, ejjinami}
{Eragon1329, ProtoZigg, cupcakeaj2, Crimson97, GrumpyGoomba} - Null
{Chemist1422, Rickdaily12}
{}
{}
{}
{}
{} - Lock Scum

ok there's a better list

list is from my pov

null means approx 4/15 = 27% chance of scum flip here

there are a lot of slots because i want template for later use and to give a better idea of how confident i am on reads

ask me qs and i'll respond tomorrow i sleep now

I want to ask you about phone and chemist but I don't remember if you've already explained them. I'll check later and comment then.

[Qvapil]

Crimson here's the thing though. If SK dies D1 Mafia has no reason to not use the cop and doc switches, and unless they want to game throw there's no reason for all of them to use the switches at once

I'm not crimson

Shut you know what I meant

Still doesn't change the fact that we're in a townsided mountainous

Mountainous?

[UzayAltay]

Hello, I didn't didn't say I didn't think I will not not didn't say I didn't hardclaim not Doctor

I hope This is not A doc HC
I cant understand The language here , that If he is claiming not doc or doc .
Also hope Flake wouldnt keep saying " it is normal , it just creates WIFOM "
Because it isnt even close to normal .

[UzayAltay]

Let's support more suspicious and horrible reads

To random vote or to not random vote?

/vote Uzay

Is it A random vote or A not random vote ?

[Qvapil]

Actually you know what, tfios isn't the best lynch option here

/vote cupcake

Last game I played cupcake was scum and acted townier. So I'm having second thoughts now that he seems not to care.

[Qvapil]

I retract my TR on Phone after reading some posts. They're sitting at null for me rn

Could you elaborate?

[UzayAltay]

Spoiler:

@0verkill, can a Mafia member use their switch action as well as perform the factional kill?

I guess the answer will at least settle this much.

No

Okay, so Ejj was right.

The reason I asked this question was to test the waters on how everyone else feels about it, though. I like what I got from it.

Could you share your thoughts on our responses rick?

Sure.

Uzay's was hard to read just because of the language barrier, but I think it's pretty in line with the rest of the conversation that lucking out on the SK early enough leads to more breathing room if SK isn't around to kill things. It felt a bit automated though because I don't think he lends enough consideration to the disruption that SK can do to the Mafia later.
Dash, once he finally got around to it, (and rereading his post in hindsight of what he was posting on page 14) clearly misunderstood the Mafia abilities and is just Town as far as I care. His analysis otherwise isn't the greatest as a result, but this is covered later.
I like Chemist's answer the most from a "What to do" perspective, but I wish he broke down the numbers a bit more in order to convince everyone else to see things his way.
Flake more or less +1-ed Chemist, but whatever. I still kinda wanted his opinion in his own words.
Next came your answer, and I more or less explained why I TR you for it and explained why I even bothered asking the question in the first place.

I'm comfortable saying that I like a TR on you for purity and a lean on Chemist for the most sensible approach, everyone else's responses were more typical and didn't touch me as much. I could dive into the other responses after explaining what I wanted from this question if you want me to do that, but having said that, I see less of a point since I more or less told everyone what I was looking for. I definitely wouldn't trust any read on this basis after how I formed yours.

inb4 rick comes back and mocks me for correcting him on not reading the role cards correctly

what I would never do that

You can take my claim seriously, or not, either way i never know how to enter so the naturalness doesn’t really indicate my alignment lol

I wish tfios didn't approach every game exactly like this.
sigh.gif

Ok, I’m starting to feel more and more that all of zucker’s bullshit is just purposefully overblown “pressure” :/

At least Flake is giving detail to back up what he’s done. ^_^
Dash Refuses to give Detail
Dash states stuff with no actual context
Dash doesn’t even look like they want to actually help town
Dash should be lynched today, if Flake is still very scummy tomorrow then we can definitely vote them.

Zucker’s confidence in the read makes no sense and it’s incredibly easy to spot
And he seems overly-enthusiastic to be able to push dash, which honestly doesn’t come from (newb?)scum often...
Sigh

I would be much more sympathetic to this idea if it even looked like he was trying to analyze Dash. No references to any posts, no elaboration, just this garbage.
The only reason I'm reluctant to lynch this is because he's a clear VI choice, but at worst, this is a reason not to scum read him, not a reason to Town read him.

Speaking of Uzay, I like a lot of his posts so far, but one thing that did stick out at me was his progression on Flake seemed a little bit off. I remember reading and seeing how he called Flake's actions into question from Town and voted him, only to back off in the same page saying that the reaction to the vote felt townie. It felt a little insincere when I was looking at it.

The main Issue was I saw claiming as anti-town , when Flake seems that as NAI , The vote went Because I thought From town PoV , It should be seen as anti-town regardless. Answer was good , he stays after their Word which I Like .
And I had no way for proving that is anti-town after Flake Show me Another perspective , from That perspective it could be very well creating WIFOM attempt , which reduce anti-townieness.
With This state , due it is not obvious If it is anti-town from their PoV or not , it would be not logical keeping The vote .
And Actually vote has A press aim,too , but Obviously I didnt Say that when voting .

Uzay your conversation with Flake went a little something like this:

You reacted when you see two people claim Citizen, Flake basically points out to you that the claims are WIFOM at worst.
You vote Flake and accuse him of encouraging role from Scum's POV, but again, Flake points out that the claims were WIFOM at worst and had no basis to be taken seriously.
You have a weird moment where you use emotes and Flake pretty much restates this in full.
Then you unvote him and say that you like his reaction to you.

Checking your time stamps, this conversation unfolded in about a half hour. It's still pretty weird on reread.

The main thing is
If an experienced Player Do that
It is WIFOM
But If An unexperienced Player Did that
It isnt WIFOM , it is just bad play
Cit claimers was Crimson , Seth , tfios .
I thought tfios and Seth as unexperienced , and Crimson as low experience .
Flake took it as tfios : Meta ( he Said that later Actually as I remember ) , but The main difference is he took both Seth and Crimson as " experienced "
He Said It creates WIFOM , but his explaining reason of that ( Seth and Crimson being experienced ) come after . After that , I thought from their perspective , and it made sense .
If they didnt say experienced thing , I wouldnt accept " it just creates WIFOM " due obvious reasons .

[Qvapil]

Sigh... I know I am being extremely frustrating to deal with and I hate it. I just didn't know what else to do save claim my role and just come clean since I am town so I should have nothing to hide. Y'all are gonna hate me when flip town and thus I'm ashamed of myself. -_-

If you're town you should have more to offer than just your role. When you have time could you share your thoughts on some of the players, or make a readslist? Ignore the fact you're being scumread and just talk with us.

[UzayAltay]

Spoiler:

The thing is not Everyone , Mafia has to free one PR .
Or they just cant kill
If they Dont kill , We can just no-lynch , and net gain is 1 night .

Look, Uzay, I'm probably the king of No-Lynch advocacy. If you want someone to pitch why No Lynch is a good idea for the Town in any given game with proven stats and reasons as to why No Lynch is objectively the safest play for the Town, I will always be that person to make that argument for you.

And, trust me- in this game, there is NO ARGUMENT for No Lynching in this game. Even once we reach 6v1 and Town has Cop-Doctor left standing, it's still probably the wrong move this game around, and we're probably never going to see those kinds of numbers in this game with all the night kills that can happen.

WHY THE FUCK DO YOU THINK IM DEVIOUS AS A MAFIA
I ONLY WAS TOWNREAD BECAUSE I BUSSED RUTHLESSLY

sorry rick had to do it

also why does Crimson's... erm... eh eh... entrance
seem towny?

:3

I said I liked how he entered. He came in at the time and more or less seemed jumpy and paranoid, he stopped memeing and started engaging people in serious conversation pretty fast. He hasn't been on a whole lot since then, but it stood out at the time.

-snip-

why is rick scum???

I hate not being able to state my reasons but it really is more beneficial if I don't say, I don't want rick to be able to adapt to my reasoning

If the trend follows as the game progresses my read on him likely becomes stronger

...Okay. I'm not playing this game with you.

Give me reasons and a way to explain myself or I'm just going to chalk this up to you making assumptions about my playstyle. It's not the first time someone's done this about "my trends" and I'm not going to engage with it this time. If you have issue with something I've said, explain what is pinging you, or admit this is a gut read.

Otherwise I'm just going to ignore this and continue doing what I'm doing. I don't "adapt" myself to people's preferences, because fuck literally everything about that.

Just quickly skimming back into the thread again, Goomba just seems like a bit of noise. Doesn't seem too opportunistic for me right now, or at least, I didn't see him taking any strong stance unless I'm skimming too hard. Normally this would be more annoying, but again, the game is still pretty fresh and I can forgive that sort of thing right now. I think Zucker has been a bit more opportunistic in comparison to Goomba as it stands.

:c
I absolutely disagree… I really don’t like that read
All of grumpy’s posts being fluff and them reading the thread, but only responding to stuff unrelated to scum-hunting should be scum-indicative, their posts are tonally bad and I see no reason to forgive that, regardless of how much time has passed.
And how the heck can Grumpy be opportunistic if he doesn’t push anyone at all?

Your stance makes no sense. I strongly disagree with the read and I really don’t like you pushing an alternative “easy ML” in the same post for no exact reason. Actually, it feels like you wrote about Grumpy not being opportunistic just so that you could start talking about Zucker. It makes little sense otherwise
Idk if I’m overthinking it, but oh god, I really, really, REALLY dislike that post.

I’m getting more and more tempted to lynch grumpy today…

1. I'll start by answering the question at the end. Goomba wasn't opportunistic at all, that was my entire point as to why I didn't think he was trying to start a wagon on Dash like Dash asked me at the time. Dash asked me about a wagon on him that formed that I never saw did.
As for the rest of this, yeah, pretty fair, especially now that I can actually ISO Goomba now, as opposed to frantically skimming the whole thread for his posts fresh out of bed. And you're right, his posting quality is shit. I don't like the fluff. I STILL don't like his acknowledge to Dash at the very end that his posting quality was bad.
Your point about the nature of his posts being anti-Town is ultimately totally solid, Ejj, but in complete and total fairness, that's not how people here play. If I lynched everyone for fluffing and posting nothing of substance when a game started, I'd be scum leaning a lot of people who play Town here.

2. Again, this wasn't a read. You're completely missing the context of the question asked. I don't have a read on Goomba- hindsight? He's null at very best to me.
The question addressed to me was: "Rick, what were your thoughts about the wagon on me?"
Between Goomba and Zucker, Zucker was the one trying harder to get Dash lynched. But yes, I absolutely despise the way he's been handling himself this game, and if you think this is me trying to push an easy mislynch and not trying to hear him out, I don't know what else I can tell you.

The thing I feared is at 9v3 , no -lynch Dont change The amount of mislynches needed .
Actually Wait , I forget vig is in play when writing This ( I was sleepy )
With vig , It should probably be calculated again , but in theory You seems right , due it potentially allowing 1 More vig shot.

[GrumpyGoomba]

Uzay- (Slight town)- Posts have been actively discussing the behavior of other players, and they have been expressing their opinion and reads on others constantly and do not seem to be afraid to jump into conflicts to make their stance known. Especially like the fact that they question even those people that townread them.

Crimson- (null)- I am not really finding anything that do seem either scummy or towny. I find their actions NAI.

Chemist- (Slight town)- Has been questioning others about their reads on people. Posts seem generally town influenced. Has been discussing about what should be done in case sk is found which I think scum would like to avoid.

Tfios- (Null)- Not enough activity for me to decide anything yet. Their thoughts about sk seem kinda anti-mafia but that isn't set in concrete yet. Their last post about Zucker's read feels kinda weird tho imo.

Cupcake- (slight scum)- Their posts literally consist of asking people about ISOs. The post in particular about everybody having said what they wanted to say makes me think as if they are trying to lie low and use that as an excuse for their lack of activity. Also, thinks Uzay is town, votes Uzay. What? I hope that doc claim was a joke.

Dash2- (Slight town)- Hoo boy. What can I say. Dash has been the most helpful poster in this game, aside from I assume Rick. I feel like they are too bold to be scum at this point. (but that also might be a legitimate tactic for scum in itself...) They call Zucker out on tunnelling them and yet don't use that opportunity to start a wagon on them which makes me more unlikely to think they are scum. (Before you say anything, this isn't me trying to pocket you)

Eragon-(Null)- I cannot accurately determine whether they are town or scum. Their posts are majorly fluff, which I think is NAI. But given their reactions with the other player I assume this should be the point where the fluffs stop.

Rick- (Moderate town)- He started the discussion about what to do when we find the sk, which is a topic that the scum would try to avoid getting involved into. They have been pretty inclusive in discussions which makes me feel them to be town.

Qvapil-(Slight town)- They have been giving me town vibes with their posts. They give explanations on their opinions and try to fish for reactions actively.

Zucker-(Slight scum)- Has been constantly tunnelling dash and gives bogus reasons whenever asked to explain themselves. Maybe it is just what he does but it seems like an extremely scummy thing to do. In one post he said that except for his deathtunnelling he is pretty town. This post in the first place makes me feel this to be likely scum and if you disregard his tunnelling he has no worthwhile content.

Will give the remaining reads a bit later. The net is killing me rn...