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VFM 49: SK win #rekt

https://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=99445

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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 5:29 am
by GrumpyGoomba
Talking about SK simply exposes them to discussions, making it easier for them to either slip up or be read as scum by other players.

Re: VFM 49: Day 1

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 6:03 am
by Chemist1422
Qvapil wrote:
GrumpyGoomba wrote:Anyways I will leave my vote on my strongest scumread for now.
/Vote Cupcake


Goomba and cupcake are not s/s

That's surface level

Re: VFM 49: Day 1

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 6:04 am
by Chemist1422
Not entirely sure how to feel about Goomba, I didn't like their AtE but them busting out the wall of reads felt good

Re: VFM 49: Day 1

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 6:06 am
by Zucker
ProtoZigg wrote:Having my own mini meme phase as I missed day start

/Vote zucker


Great reasoning! ^_^

Re: VFM 49: Day 1

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 6:16 am
by GrumpyGoomba
Welp ofcourse it isn't. I believe it to be a T/S with me as the T.

Re: VFM 49: Day 1

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 6:22 am
by Zucker
GrumpyGoomba wrote:Welp ofcourse it isn't. I believe it to be a T/S with me as the T.


I think Cupcake is Town and potentially Doctor.
I’m not voting our PR.
If Cupcake dose get lynched and you don’t push anyone on the Wagon then I might just stop actually trying.
I won’t even Death Tunnel anymore.
Because at that point you want Town to lose not win.
So I’ll have a loss to my FM Record because for some reason Town wants a nice loss.
I can clearly see that some stuff Dash has said Town would never say but you all for some reason aren’t believing it.
So if Cupcake dose get Lynched and SK stops Mafia Switch. Vigilante Shoot Dash.

Re: VFM 49: Day 1

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 6:28 am
by GrumpyGoomba
I hope that through some magical luck the cop check is on me and it succeeds and I am hopefully cleared.

Re: VFM 49: Day 1

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 6:29 am
by Chemist1422
Can I PL Zucker

Re: VFM 49: Day 1

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 6:34 am
by GrumpyGoomba
Dash2 wrote:
GrumpyGoomba wrote:I hope that through some magical luck the cop check is on me and it succeeds and I am hopefully cleared.

"Pregame you must choose to be either immune to the Mafia Nightkill OR be immune to Vig/Cop."

A cit check isn't guaranteed unless the SK chose the former

Well shit ofcourse that'd be the case.

Re: VFM 49: Day 1

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 7:17 am
by Eragon1329
Wait what the hell

I’m still confused about the switch stuff

So let’s say a hypothetical
Mafia chooses to switch vigilante and cop off
But keep doctor

Serial killer can turn specific ones off and on, or they have to do ALL or NONE?
So let’s say serial killer switches
Does it become
-doc blocked
-cop/vigi unblocked?

Or

Is it whichever specific ones the serial killer chooses?

Re: VFM 49: Day 1

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 7:18 am
by Eragon1329
Zucker wrote:
GrumpyGoomba wrote:Welp ofcourse it isn't. I believe it to be a T/S with me as the T.


I think Cupcake is Town and potentially Doctor.
I’m not voting our PR.
If Cupcake dose get lynched and you don’t push anyone on the Wagon then I might just stop actually trying.
I won’t even Death Tunnel anymore.
Because at that point you want Town to lose not win.
So I’ll have a loss to my FM Record because for some reason Town wants a nice loss.
I can clearly see that some stuff Dash has said Town would never say but you all for some reason aren’t believing it.
So if Cupcake dose get Lynched and SK stops Mafia Switch. Vigilante Shoot Dash.


Bug off

/vote Zucker

Re: VFM 49: Day 1

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 7:19 am
by Eragon1329
You did this same fucking thing to 0verki11 in 17F

And he was scum

This is not a fucking good play

stop

Seriously

Re: VFM 49: Day 1

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 7:20 am
by Eragon1329
Ok

So it’s a complete switch

Thanks

Yes ok this game is like
WIFOM
but both wines are poison

P-edit: honesty I’m just doing it to make a point and Becuase I haven’t fully caught up yet

Re: VFM 49: Day 1

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 7:22 am
by Eragon1329
But yea
Catching up

Re: VFM 49: Day 1

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 7:27 am
by Eragon1329
Dash2 wrote:
Rickdaily12 wrote:
Dash2 wrote:By the way Rick, you said Flake was townie if I'm not mistaken, but besides getting into 2 arguments I can't really find much on him that's AI

It's more a meta read. Flake seems really natural and his progression feels pure to me. I agree that if we talk strictly about the substance that you wouldn't find much there, but based on how I've seen Flake carry himself in other games then he seems exactly like I normally see him to me.

I see. I got confused for a second.

Rickdaily12 wrote: From her point of view

Ok rick lowkey I have no idea why my gender was set on female but I'm actually a guy


Could also be teammystic set to female that rick remembers lol



Qvapil wrote:I was thinking a bit about the setup, and I believe lynching SK early benefits us simply because we reduce kpn. It's true that the prs are under mafia's control at that point but once we find a mafia member we'll have more options. I think having more townies alive (by reducing kpn) is more important than the prs, though take this with a grain of salt since I haven't played anything like this before.


I agree for a multitude of reasons
Main things
1)he KPN, which as chemistbhas previously said, puts us in a two sided mountainous with PR’s that become active N4
It’s townsided Becuase we would be at 10 v 3, which is pretty good numbers for a mountainous game
2) SK can still fuck with switched, either preventing mafia or preventing town, so getting rid of that gets rid of WIFOM

The problems
1) we have to lynch every mafia, instead of hoping the SK will scumhuny and kill them for us. Frankly, I don’t think this problem outweighs the benefit
2) we can’t stop mafia at all, again this is purely WIFOM

Re: VFM 49: Day 1

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 7:34 am
by Eragon1329
Qvapil wrote:Guys I don't think speculating about zucker/seth helps us solve the game. Could we do this afterwards?


is it bad I get towny vibes here

Dash2 wrote:Also I've been TRing Qva for a while now


ok cool

Dash2 wrote:
TeamMystic wrote:imagine using alts

oi fuck off mate you're supposed to be sleep


teammystic is the entity of sleep?

cool :3

Zucker wrote:Town Reads: Qva and Uzay
Scum Reads: at least one scum in Flake, Dash and Chemist.


scumreads

At least one in ____
good job
you just pulled the prospective percentages of pugnacious scum baseline

Re: VFM 49: Day 1

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 7:39 am
by Eragon1329
Spoiler:
Dash2 wrote:[spoiler]Mafia Cop Switch
Welcome . You are the Mafia Cop Switch , along with your partners, [Player Name] and [Player Name].

Factional communication: During the night phase you may talk with your partners here (Link)
Factional kill: Each night phase, one of you or your partners may perform the factional kill providing they aren't also using their switch.
Cop Switch: You may use the Cop Switch 3 times at night to deactivate the Cop for the night. Note: it's possible that the SK could reverse your decision.

You win when the Mafia obtain a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

Mafia Doctor Switch
Welcome. You are the Mafia Doctor Switch, along with your partners, [Player Name] and [Player Name].

Factional communication: During the night phase you may talk with your partners here (link)
Factional kill: Each night phase, one of you or your partners may perform the factional kill providing they aren't also using their switch.
Doctor Switch: You may use the Doctor Switch 3 times at night to deactivate the Doctor for the night. Note: it's possible that the SK could reverse your decision.

You win when the Mafia obtain a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring.


Mafia Vigilante Switch
Welcome. You are the Mafia Vigilante Switch , along with your partners, [Player Name] and [Player Name].


Factional communication: During the night phase you may talk with your partners here (Link)
Factional kill: Each night phase, one of you or your partners may perform the factional kill providing they aren't also using their switch.
Vig Switch: You may use the Vig Switch 3 times at night to deactivate the Vig for the night. Note: it's possible that the SK could reverse your decision.

You win when the Mafia obtain a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

Nowhere in the rolecards does it imply you can do both actions, so I'm gonna assume that you have to choose one or the other. There's essentially no real reason for Mafia Vig to not shoot, so that's already giving up one switch. As for Mafia cop, information is vital to them, so not using their cop is also a waste. That brings us down to the Mafia doctor. This one kind of depends on the situation, but I can see the switch being used here.


:Hide: :Innocent: :Hide:

ejjinami wrote:
Rickdaily12 wrote:By the way, everyone, what do we think about the tactic of trying to avoid lynching the SK? I'm a bit torn thinking over what exactly our approach this game should be.

Like, because of the whole situation with the switches and all of the WIFOM hell, it's probably really safe to assume that Night Plans this game on our end are going to be utterly useless. We ultimately have no control over any of the night actions that get sent and that end up working, as all of that utility ultimately gets negated by the scum. So really, like, I view this game as 11 cits versus a 3v1 scum faction. The only thing really going for us is that the SK will want the Mafia as dead as badly as we do and can screw with their abilities in a way that we can't. (Like really, I'm still pretty salty that we didn't end up getting more citizens or even a role that can flip switches too.)

So, because of this, we at least have an SK that can crosskill into Mafia, and screw with their switches for as long as the Mafia remain alive. Plus, as more Mafia die, we effectively get stronger over time, since this frees more of the PRs and basically undoes a vanillasizer on the PRs. But if we lynch the SK, Scum loses a KP, but then we almost basically guarantee Scum never cross killing into each other the moment SK dies, and that could be pretty devastating, especially if multiple PRs die before hitting ever hitting Mafia.

Is it also in the better interest of the SK if they try to help us get a few Cop checks to work? They can't outright murder the Town if Mafia remains at full power, so if they did everything in their power to help us find associations between mafia, it's in all of our benefit, right?

Basically I'm unsure how Town wins without us getting lucky on the Vig or without SK helping us kill at least one of the Mafia. Is anyone else familiar with this setup?

Well… the town won’t win this setup unless the SK helps us ):
and unless the SK is crazily confident that they’ll be able to get all scums lynched before that, they’re really unlikely to win as well…
So they basically have to kingmake help us

I don’t think aiming for a cross-kill or mafia-kill is good here though :/
The chances of that happening are small and unless the SK REALLY chooses his target’s with town’s benefits in mind, I would just lynch him.
Keeping them alive if they claim (before being lynched) MIGHT be ok depending on the circumstances (especially late game if there are a lot of mafia alive), but definitely not now.
It’s not like anyone here is likely to claim SK D1 anyway :/


we can also win if we kill the SK D1


Dash2 wrote:Assuming the SK is dead, mafia can just as easily use their cop to narrow down who is citizen and who is not, while the vig goes and shoots whoever



yep ok this isn't faked

Dash2 wrote:goddamn we'd have to lynch the mafia cop first in order to stand a chance at winning


lmfao
literally spewed not mafia
and spewed not neutral because of them not getting super angry rage

Dash2 wrote:It also occurred to me that in the event the Vig dies, Mafia has 3 choices to make instead of 2. So they could either be careful and have the doc heal the cop, or risk a shot and use a switch on the SK, while still betting on the fact that SK won't interfere.


lol
this is why sometimes its good that people didnt read the setup[/spoiler]

Re: VFM 49: Day 1

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 7:42 am
by Eragon1329
Dash2 wrote:Lynching the SK is a controversial subject in this setup. Some people may want to utilize the PRs, while others believe that reducing the KPN is better than not having access to roles.

I was honestly on the former side, but thinking about it now, we have a ton of leads to go off of. Depending on today's flip, we could possibly easily be able to solve the game.


I think

if we Lynch the serial killer D1
its always worth it

but after D1
and on consequent days
lynching the serial killer gets worse and worse
because our numbers against mafia get lower
and we have no chance to kill them at night or reduce our PoE at night
which is what sk should try to do if they both survive and we mislynch
mafia can easily run away with this if there are too many 2 kill nights
but SK can kill mafia after they start getting a maj

Re: VFM 49: Day 1

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 7:44 am
by Eragon1329
currently top town are jord/Qvapil/goomba

I've explained jord
Qvapil I think just is tone, the posts ive brought up, and just a general feel about them
Goomba- I used this tell on another player in an NFM, when it was their first game, and just the effort and like, putting the knowledge into it and just trying and making reads and all that
is very very very towny for what would be a level 1 wolf

Re: VFM 49: Day 1

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 7:48 am
by Eragon1329
Dash2 wrote:Ok so yeah Rick had the right mindset. Keep the SK alive or else 2 out of 3 of our PRs will be cits for the majority of the game. We can't rely solely on roles this game due to how chaotic the switch system is, so I expect we keep accurate reads.


thing is

if we Lynch the sk today

we go into a 10v3

with mountainous for 2 more nights

meaning, even lets assume that we mislynch twice in a row

6 v 3

so we have one night of all PR's guranteed to use their ability, if they are still alive
and we also have the numbers that mountainous is balanced, even without any PR's
of course, and scum lynches greatly decreases the chance of both PR dying and town dying overall

Re: VFM 49: Day 1

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 7:51 am
by Eragon1329
Flake wrote:
Eragon1329 wrote:currently top town are jord/Qvapil/goomba

I've explained jord
Qvapil I think just is tone, the posts ive brought up, and just a general feel about them
Goomba- I used this tell on another player in an NFM, when it was their first game, and just the effort and like, putting the knowledge into it and just trying and making reads and all that
is very very very towny for what would be a level 1 wolf

i kind of agree on goomba, but they could just be a good newbie, and same for qva tbh, they were very good in VFM48 imo for a new player especially

what do you think about the reads i posted?


the other dude was a good newbie
your point?
it doesn't matter if they are "good" or not
it matters that they are posting reads and putting work into the game, as a newbie that would more likely be slightly frozen, if not completely frozen, as scum.

My read on Qva stands whether they are the most experienced player in the game or not
their posts are just bloody towny

Re: VFM 49: Day 1

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 7:58 am
by Eragon1329
Chemist1422 wrote:@Eragon
Effort has always been AI and if you try to say otherwise Watt will sub in and yell at you

Murphy's Law says Dash is SK but I'm not willing to go after this yet


what I mean

Effort is not strictly AI
Effort certainly can be AI, and is more likely AI when you are talking about the higher level of effort
but low effort is not necessarily AI, unless its meta/unusual

People slank, people low-post, people avoid thread for reasons
its not good
but its not neccesarily a scum thing either
Town does this just as much

Person A is good effort
Person B is low effort
this does not mean Person A is town and Person B is scum
it could be used to help a read
but in itself
it does not matter

cupcakeaj2 wrote:Oh ok then

Yeah I think Zucker = alt

Also he's literally "I don't like these things but I don't want to explain why"


:Thonk: :Thonk:

ok?

Re: VFM 49: Day 1

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 7:59 am
by Eragon1329
Flake wrote:
Eragon1329 wrote:
Flake wrote:
Eragon1329 wrote:currently top town are jord/Qvapil/goomba

I've explained jord
Qvapil I think just is tone, the posts ive brought up, and just a general feel about them
Goomba- I used this tell on another player in an NFM, when it was their first game, and just the effort and like, putting the knowledge into it and just trying and making reads and all that
is very very very towny for what would be a level 1 wolf

i kind of agree on goomba, but they could just be a good newbie, and same for qva tbh, they were very good in VFM48 imo for a new player especially

what do you think about the reads i posted?


the other dude was a good newbie
your point?
it doesn't matter if they are "good" or not
it matters that they are posting reads and putting work into the game, as a newbie that would more likely be slightly frozen, if not completely frozen, as scum.

My read on Qva stands whether they are the most experienced player in the game or not
their posts are just bloody towny

what

putting in an effort, appearing townie and not being frozen are literally all signs of a good scum

so how does it not matter if they're good or not


because good /=/ experienced
and experienced scum players dont normally get frozen
while new scum players, even if good, might get frozen
while as town, will be good and post content

Re: VFM 49: Day 1

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 8:05 am
by Eragon1329
cupcakeaj2 wrote:Let's support more suspicious and horrible reads

To random vote or to not random vote?

/vote Uzay


facepalm

ejjinami wrote:
Eragon1329 wrote:
Rickdaily12 wrote:I only just realized that I can't meta read you for shit and this is our first ever game together...

Craaaaaaaaaaap. D:


imo

Ejji is really...

like bleeding towny when they are town
thats my experience in 2 of my games with them on MS

I discourage you from using that meta :/
The forums are not the same, the amount of time to write posts is not the same and the players here often make it really fucking difficult to do anything.
I have to say I feel really good about the game rn though xD


:3
am I wrong

ejjinami wrote:[Qvap, dash]

[phone, uzay, zucker]
[eragon, cupcake]
[crimson, chemist, tfios, Flake, ProtoZigg]
[rick]
[Grumpy]

[]


explain...

uh pretty much all of these
except uzay is good

Re: VFM 49: Day 1

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 8:16 am
by GrumpyGoomba
Dash2 wrote:@eragon
GrumpyGoomba wrote:Since I am already getting scumread I guess there goes my idea of claiming a pr to waste the mafia/sk night kill on me down the drain...

This post literally shouldn't make sense from town. No town member ever just reveals a plan like that. I revealed it because from my POV, everyone thinks I am scum. That would mean that the actual scum won't kill me at night to maintain me as a day lynch target to keep suspicion off of themselves, and thus that would nullify my plan in itself.
GrumpyGoomba wrote:Sigh... I know I am being extremely frustrating to deal with and I hate it. I just didn't know what else to do save claim my role and just come clean since I am town so I should have nothing to hide. Y'all are gonna hate me when flip town and thus I'm ashamed of myself. -_-

Another post that shouldn't come from town, emphasis on the hard AtE doesn't sit right Not sure what AtE means.
GrumpyGoomba wrote:I hope that through some magical luck the cop check is on me and it succeeds and I am hopefully cleared.

Post here is unnatural from town and makes me believe two things
1. It's an attempt at AtE to get the cop to not check
2. Goomba's the SK and chose cop immunity

It's the opposite about 1 actually, I WANTED the cop to check me so that I would be cleared. About 2, my dumbass just didn't read the cop part in the vig/cop immunity choice and that's why I made that stupid statement.

Responses in bold.
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