VFM 49: SK win #rekt

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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Rickdaily12 » Mon May 13, 2019 1:04 pm

Dash2 wrote:
Rickdaily12 wrote:
Dash2 wrote:By the way Rick, you said Flake was townie if I'm not mistaken, but besides getting into 2 arguments I can't really find much on him that's AI

It's more a meta read. Flake seems really natural and his progression feels pure to me. I agree that if we talk strictly about the substance that you wouldn't find much there, but based on how I've seen Flake carry himself in other games then he seems exactly like I normally see him to me.

I see. I got confused for a second.

Rickdaily12 wrote: From her point of view

Ok rick lowkey I have no idea why my gender was set on female but I'm actually a guy

As someone who screws up gender literally every person I meet, I make a point to check these things more often. <_<
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Rickdaily12 » Mon May 13, 2019 1:11 pm

Rickdaily12 wrote:
Zucker wrote:At least Flake is giving detail to back up what he’s done. ^_^
Dash Refuses to give Detail
Dash states stuff with no actual context
Dash doesn’t even look like they want to actually help town
Dash should be lynched today, if Flake is still very scummy tomorrow then we can definitely vote them.

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Zucker, seriously, you're turning into a walking case example now.

Rickdaily12 wrote: Spoiler: If someone tries to impose a gladiator on a conflict without good reason, you want to pressure that person. You ESPECIALLY want to do this if the person in question isn't confirmed to be Town yet. TvT conflicts happen all the time, but Mafia love when they do, because they can more easily let you keep looking at that conflict waiting for you to decide if you're going to kill into that conflict or egg someone into demanding that someone in that duo/trio/whatever dies.
If people don't have hard evidence that there is Scum in a conflict, people shouldn't be eager to lynch in the issue. Short of having a parity cop check or a confirmed Town which confirms a liar in the pair, if all two people are doing is having a heated argument that really flares up, it could just be temper and ego. At the end of the day, it isn't alignment indicative purely on that basis alone, despite how distracting it just was. Town aren't flawless either, obviously, so sometimes two people just really derail the thread with their argument but turn out to be on the same side. Chances are, you aren't going to know if that conflict has scum unless you have direct evidence to the contrary.
So if all of a sudden, someone shouts "someone in that pair is getting lynched today!" (especially if the Day Phase isn't ending for 24 or more hours...)
You should probably ask that person why they're so certain that the conflict isn't TvT in the first place. Their answer will probably be at least telling.
Keep an open eye out for people who disappeared once the argument started, or just sort of let everything explode out of control and more or less encourage people to take sides on a hypothetical lynch in that pair. Anyone without a solid reason as to why the conflict is certain to be not TvT should have great reasons for it, or looked at for pushing this.

Why are Dash and Flake never TvT to you?

Bumping for Seth's sake, as he's still not answering the question.
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Qvapil » Mon May 13, 2019 1:13 pm

I was thinking a bit about the setup, and I believe lynching SK early benefits us simply because we reduce kpn. It's true that the prs are under mafia's control at that point but once we find a mafia member we'll have more options. I think having more townies alive (by reducing kpn) is more important than the prs, though take this with a grain of salt since I haven't played anything like this before.
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Flake » Mon May 13, 2019 1:14 pm

Zucker wrote:
Flake wrote:
Zucker wrote:
Chemist1422 wrote:
Zucker wrote:
Dash2 wrote:guys let me know when zucker isn't being useless I'm blocking him now


Isn’t it illegal to block someone participating?

No


Seriously?
That seems game throwable.

can you stop pretending to not be seth it's annoying


How did you know though? :/

your main hasn't joined any games you've been in on your alt

you never denied me saying that you're seth

you're confident in weird tinfoils which you shouldn't be confident in similarly to seth

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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Qvapil » Mon May 13, 2019 1:18 pm

Zucker wrote:
Chemist1422 wrote:
Dash2 wrote:Phone is town

I agree


Chemist has been very off.
He doesn’t really add anything new to the conversation.
Dash is only saying Phone is Town because scum wants someone to follow them! ^_^
Qva did it to Seththeking and it worked on him. ^_^


I agree chemist had a stronger start on the other game I played with him, but that could be due to irl reasons.
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Qvapil » Mon May 13, 2019 1:20 pm

Guys I don't think speculating about zucker/seth helps us solve the game. Could we do this afterwards?
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Rickdaily12 » Mon May 13, 2019 1:20 pm

Qvapil wrote:I was thinking a bit about the setup, and I believe lynching SK early benefits us simply because we reduce kpn. It's true that the prs are under mafia's control at that point but once we find a mafia member we'll have more options. I think having more townies alive (by reducing kpn) is more important than the prs, though take this with a grain of salt since I haven't played anything like this before.

Whether or not you agree with the course of action, this post screams Town to me. Doesn't feel coached to me either.
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Qvapil » Mon May 13, 2019 1:22 pm

Unless you want to metaread them, but still shouldn't we respect the fact that it's an alt? If it is one. I don't know how you guys deal with alts around here, so correct me if this isn't a problem.
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Qvapil » Mon May 13, 2019 1:24 pm

Rickdaily12 wrote:
Qvapil wrote:I was thinking a bit about the setup, and I believe lynching SK early benefits us simply because we reduce kpn. It's true that the prs are under mafia's control at that point but once we find a mafia member we'll have more options. I think having more townies alive (by reducing kpn) is more important than the prs, though take this with a grain of salt since I haven't played anything like this before.

Whether or not you agree with the course of action, this post screams Town to me. Doesn't feel coached to me either.


You suggested keeping the SK alive earlier, and everyone that has responded to you so far disagreed. What do you think about what we said?
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Zucker » Mon May 13, 2019 1:26 pm

Dash2 wrote:Also I've been TRing Qva for a while now


Same TBH.
Although their very townie in their scum game.
I believe them to be Town this game simply because their isn’t a “Maybe or weird Puppeting”
It’s a solid opinion they are giving which I think leads to them being Town.
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Qvapil » Mon May 13, 2019 1:26 pm

TeamMystic wrote:imagine using alts


Begone, ghost!
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Zucker » Mon May 13, 2019 1:28 pm

Town Reads: Qva and Uzay
Scum Reads: at least one scum in Flake, Dash and Chemist.
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Rickdaily12 » Mon May 13, 2019 1:29 pm

Qvapil wrote:Unless you want to metaread them, but still shouldn't we respect the fact that it's an alt? If it is one. I don't know how you guys deal with alts around here, so correct me if this isn't a problem.

It's really not a problem anymore now that he outed himself. The only real issue is the meta basis- Seth might be new to FM and all, but there are tricks and tips he's learning not to do around here, and feigning ignorance to those tips isn't going to be an excuse he can carry with himself forever.

That, and he's still ignoring my question. :x

Chemist, why is this his Town meta again?

Qvapil wrote:
Rickdaily12 wrote:
Qvapil wrote:I was thinking a bit about the setup, and I believe lynching SK early benefits us simply because we reduce kpn. It's true that the prs are under mafia's control at that point but once we find a mafia member we'll have more options. I think having more townies alive (by reducing kpn) is more important than the prs, though take this with a grain of salt since I haven't played anything like this before.

Whether or not you agree with the course of action, this post screams Town to me. Doesn't feel coached to me either.


You suggested keeping the SK alive earlier, and everyone that has responded to you so far disagreed. What do you think about what we said?

I think that you're right in that it depends. It's still difficult to say- the moment the SK dies, everyone in the Town becomes a Citizen until Day 4. That's pretty brutal, considering that three night kills where everyone is vanilla allows Mafia to kill the PRs and we're left stuck trying to clean up the aftermath of it all. Lynching SK now to preserve the number of dead Town each night is ideal, but unless we can hit them today, which is unlikely, I can't help but feel like Mafia is the big threat all game long for everyone.

The reason I asked this question was to test the waters on how everyone else feels about it, though. I like what I got from it.
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Zucker » Mon May 13, 2019 1:31 pm

Rickdaily12 wrote:
Qvapil wrote:Unless you want to metaread them, but still shouldn't we respect the fact that it's an alt? If it is one. I don't know how you guys deal with alts around here, so correct me if this isn't a problem.

It's really not a problem anymore now that he outed himself. The only real issue is the meta basis- Seth might be new to FM and all, but there are tricks and tips he's learning not to do around here, and feigning ignorance to those tips isn't going to be an excuse he can carry with himself forever.

That, and he's still ignoring my question. :x

Chemist, why is this his Town meta again?

Qvapil wrote:
Rickdaily12 wrote:
Qvapil wrote:I was thinking a bit about the setup, and I believe lynching SK early benefits us simply because we reduce kpn. It's true that the prs are under mafia's control at that point but once we find a mafia member we'll have more options. I think having more townies alive (by reducing kpn) is more important than the prs, though take this with a grain of salt since I haven't played anything like this before.

Whether or not you agree with the course of action, this post screams Town to me. Doesn't feel coached to me either.


You suggested keeping the SK alive earlier, and everyone that has responded to you so far disagreed. What do you think about what we said?

I think that you're right in that it depends. It's still difficult to say- the moment the SK dies, everyone in the Town becomes a Citizen until Day 4. That's pretty brutal, considering that three night kills where everyone is vanilla allows Mafia to kill the PRs and we're left stuck trying to clean up the aftermath of it all. Lynching SK now to preserve the number of dead Town each night is ideal, but unless we can hit them today, which is unlikely, I can't help but feel like Mafia is the big threat all game long for everyone.

The reason I asked this question was to test the waters on how everyone else feels about it, though. I like what I got from it.


Answers Question.
Gets “you still haven’t answered it!”
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Rickdaily12 » Mon May 13, 2019 1:33 pm

Dash2 wrote:Rick I think you're misreading the rolecards

Uh, why's that?

Zucker wrote:Answers Question.
Gets “you still haven’t answered it!”

So you've answered why you think it's impossible or unlikely that Flake and Dash are TvT to you? Because I've been waiting for you to quote that question at me.

If you did answer already, I missed it, and sorry, but I don't think you did.
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby ejjinami » Mon May 13, 2019 1:37 pm

Catching up xd
Oh god, I’m really not good with fast-paced games
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Rickdaily12 » Mon May 13, 2019 1:39 pm

Oh, my bad, the person who suggested D1 SK lynch then back off pending outcome was Chemist.

I still like Qva's answer more though and I think his reasoning and concern are pure coming from Town.

Dash2 wrote: Spoiler: Mafia Cop Switch
Welcome . You are the Mafia Cop Switch , along with your partners, [Player Name] and [Player Name].

Factional communication: During the night phase you may talk with your partners here (Link)
Factional kill: Each night phase, one of you or your partners may perform the factional kill providing they aren't also using their switch.
Cop Switch: You may use the Cop Switch 3 times at night to deactivate the Cop for the night. Note: it's possible that the SK could reverse your decision.

You win when the Mafia obtain a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

Mafia Doctor Switch
Welcome. You are the Mafia Doctor Switch, along with your partners, [Player Name] and [Player Name].

Factional communication: During the night phase you may talk with your partners here (link)
Factional kill: Each night phase, one of you or your partners may perform the factional kill providing they aren't also using their switch.
Doctor Switch: You may use the Doctor Switch 3 times at night to deactivate the Doctor for the night. Note: it's possible that the SK could reverse your decision.

You win when the Mafia obtain a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring.


Mafia Vigilante Switch
Welcome. You are the Mafia Vigilante Switch , along with your partners, [Player Name] and [Player Name].


Factional communication: During the night phase you may talk with your partners here (Link)
Factional kill: Each night phase, one of you or your partners may perform the factional kill providing they aren't also using their switch.
Vig Switch: You may use the Vig Switch 3 times at night to deactivate the Vig for the night. Note: it's possible that the SK could reverse your decision.

You win when the Mafia obtain a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring.


Nowhere in the rolecards does it imply you can do both actions, so I'm gonna assume that you have to choose one or the other. There's essentially no real reason for Mafia Vig to not shoot, so that's already giving up one switch. As for Mafia cop, information is vital to them, so not using their cop is also a waste. That brings us down to the Mafia doctor. This one kind of depends on the situation, but I can see the switch being used here.

Oh, so then Mafia has to give up one of their night switches to perform the kill?

Then don't they basically always turn off Cop and Doctor once SK dies? Vig might shoot Mafia, but daring that Vig to start shooting when there's no one to go on other than their own reads still doesn't sound all that much better for us unless we get really lucky.
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Rickdaily12 » Mon May 13, 2019 1:40 pm

@0verkill, can a Mafia member use their switch action as well as perform the factional kill?

I guess the answer will at least settle this much.
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby ejjinami » Mon May 13, 2019 1:40 pm

Rickdaily12 wrote:By the way, everyone, what do we think about the tactic of trying to avoid lynching the SK? I'm a bit torn thinking over what exactly our approach this game should be.

Like, because of the whole situation with the switches and all of the WIFOM hell, it's probably really safe to assume that Night Plans this game on our end are going to be utterly useless. We ultimately have no control over any of the night actions that get sent and that end up working, as all of that utility ultimately gets negated by the scum. So really, like, I view this game as 11 cits versus a 3v1 scum faction. The only thing really going for us is that the SK will want the Mafia as dead as badly as we do and can screw with their abilities in a way that we can't. (Like really, I'm still pretty salty that we didn't end up getting more citizens or even a role that can flip switches too.)

So, because of this, we at least have an SK that can crosskill into Mafia, and screw with their switches for as long as the Mafia remain alive. Plus, as more Mafia die, we effectively get stronger over time, since this frees more of the PRs and basically undoes a vanillasizer on the PRs. But if we lynch the SK, Scum loses a KP, but then we almost basically guarantee Scum never cross killing into each other the moment SK dies, and that could be pretty devastating, especially if multiple PRs die before hitting ever hitting Mafia.

Is it also in the better interest of the SK if they try to help us get a few Cop checks to work? They can't outright murder the Town if Mafia remains at full power, so if they did everything in their power to help us find associations between mafia, it's in all of our benefit, right?

Basically I'm unsure how Town wins without us getting lucky on the Vig or without SK helping us kill at least one of the Mafia. Is anyone else familiar with this setup?

Well… the town won’t win this setup unless the SK helps us ):
and unless the SK is crazily confident that they’ll be able to get all scums lynched before that, they’re really unlikely to win as well…
So they basically have to kingmake help us

I don’t think aiming for a cross-kill or mafia-kill is good here though :/
The chances of that happening are small and unless the SK REALLY chooses his target’s with town’s benefits in mind, I would just lynch him.
Keeping them alive if they claim (before being lynched) MIGHT be ok depending on the circumstances (especially late game if there are a lot of mafia alive), but definitely not now.
It’s not like anyone here is likely to claim SK D1 anyway :/
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby ejjinami » Mon May 13, 2019 1:42 pm

Rickdaily12 wrote:@0verkill, can a Mafia member use their switch action as well as perform the factional kill?

I guess the answer will at least settle this much.

no, as long as the setup works same as this one, they can't
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby ejjinami » Mon May 13, 2019 1:43 pm

I don’t really like grumpy’s shitposts ):

ejjinami wrote:
GrumpyGoomba wrote:
ejjinami wrote:/vote grumpynotacat

Excuse me?! I take serious offense to that. You just called a goomba a 'notacat'. That's seriously Catist of you.

hey, kitty~ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
do you prefer town or scum?

better?

can you answer this?
I admit that the question doesn’t go well with the joke, but it was supposed to be serious.
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Rickdaily12 » Mon May 13, 2019 1:45 pm

Dash2 wrote:goddamn we'd have to lynch the mafia cop first in order to stand a chance at winning

Yep, until the Mafia Cop/Doctor switches are dead, we're pretty screwed.

I almost didn't join because of it and that's why I begged for either more citizens or a Town switch role, but no dice.

Dash2 wrote:WAIT
IF MAFIA VIG DIES THAT MEANS ONE OF THE MAFIA WILL HAVE TO GIVE UP THEIR ACTION TO KILL

I'M BIG DUM

Yeah, but of the three switches, we probably want the Cop switch dead the most. Doctor will probably miss or not matter with Vig/Mafia/SK running around, and Vig usually does more harm than good for the Town anyway.


Hi ejj, btw o/
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby ejjinami » Mon May 13, 2019 1:46 pm

Flake wrote:
Zucker wrote:I flipped Citizen! ^_^
Good luck everyone!

lol @ seth trying to grab town cred and failing

OOF, actually, that would make so much sense

and it’s shade
Can’t tell if AI, but I don’t think flake would reveal Zucker’s main and criticize him immediately if they were mafia together.

Flake wrote:
ejjinami wrote:Uzay is acting really townie rn btw

why

He seemed chill and he didn’t seem as concerned about “grabbing towncreed” and “writing meaningful posts” as in the last VFM I played with him. He even shitposted a bit, lol.
As I said before I’m not 100% confident in reading him based on it though
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby ejjinami » Mon May 13, 2019 1:46 pm

Rickdaily12 wrote:Hi ejj, btw o/

OwO
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Re: VFM 49: Day 1

Postby Rickdaily12 » Mon May 13, 2019 1:50 pm

Have to step out for a bit. Will be back in a few hours.
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