VFM 49: SK win #rekt

[Rickdaily12]

Oh, my bad, the person who suggested D1 SK lynch then back off pending outcome was Chemist.

I still like Qva's answer more though and I think his reasoning and concern are pure coming from Town.

Spoiler: Mafia Cop Switch
Welcome . You are the Mafia Cop Switch , along with your partners, [Player Name] and [Player Name].

Factional communication: During the night phase you may talk with your partners here (Link)
Factional kill: Each night phase, one of you or your partners may perform the factional kill providing they aren't also using their switch.
Cop Switch: You may use the Cop Switch 3 times at night to deactivate the Cop for the night. Note: it's possible that the SK could reverse your decision.

You win when the Mafia obtain a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

Mafia Doctor Switch
Welcome. You are the Mafia Doctor Switch, along with your partners, [Player Name] and [Player Name].

Factional communication: During the night phase you may talk with your partners here (link)
Factional kill: Each night phase, one of you or your partners may perform the factional kill providing they aren't also using their switch.
Doctor Switch: You may use the Doctor Switch 3 times at night to deactivate the Doctor for the night. Note: it's possible that the SK could reverse your decision.

You win when the Mafia obtain a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring.


Mafia Vigilante Switch
Welcome. You are the Mafia Vigilante Switch , along with your partners, [Player Name] and [Player Name].


Factional communication: During the night phase you may talk with your partners here (Link)
Factional kill: Each night phase, one of you or your partners may perform the factional kill providing they aren't also using their switch.
Vig Switch: You may use the Vig Switch 3 times at night to deactivate the Vig for the night. Note: it's possible that the SK could reverse your decision.

You win when the Mafia obtain a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

Nowhere in the rolecards does it imply you can do both actions, so I'm gonna assume that you have to choose one or the other. There's essentially no real reason for Mafia Vig to not shoot, so that's already giving up one switch. As for Mafia cop, information is vital to them, so not using their cop is also a waste. That brings us down to the Mafia doctor. This one kind of depends on the situation, but I can see the switch being used here.

Oh, so then Mafia has to give up one of their night switches to perform the kill?

Then don't they basically always turn off Cop and Doctor once SK dies? Vig might shoot Mafia, but daring that Vig to start shooting when there's no one to go on other than their own reads still doesn't sound all that much better for us unless we get really lucky.

[Rickdaily12]

@0verkill, can a Mafia member use their switch action as well as perform the factional kill?

I guess the answer will at least settle this much.

[ejjinami]

By the way, everyone, what do we think about the tactic of trying to avoid lynching the SK? I'm a bit torn thinking over what exactly our approach this game should be.

Like, because of the whole situation with the switches and all of the WIFOM hell, it's probably really safe to assume that Night Plans this game on our end are going to be utterly useless. We ultimately have no control over any of the night actions that get sent and that end up working, as all of that utility ultimately gets negated by the scum. So really, like, I view this game as 11 cits versus a 3v1 scum faction. The only thing really going for us is that the SK will want the Mafia as dead as badly as we do and can screw with their abilities in a way that we can't. (Like really, I'm still pretty salty that we didn't end up getting more citizens or even a role that can flip switches too.)

So, because of this, we at least have an SK that can crosskill into Mafia, and screw with their switches for as long as the Mafia remain alive. Plus, as more Mafia die, we effectively get stronger over time, since this frees more of the PRs and basically undoes a vanillasizer on the PRs. But if we lynch the SK, Scum loses a KP, but then we almost basically guarantee Scum never cross killing into each other the moment SK dies, and that could be pretty devastating, especially if multiple PRs die before hitting ever hitting Mafia.

Is it also in the better interest of the SK if they try to help us get a few Cop checks to work? They can't outright murder the Town if Mafia remains at full power, so if they did everything in their power to help us find associations between mafia, it's in all of our benefit, right?

Basically I'm unsure how Town wins without us getting lucky on the Vig or without SK helping us kill at least one of the Mafia. Is anyone else familiar with this setup?

Well… the town won’t win this setup unless the SK helps us ):
and unless the SK is crazily confident that they’ll be able to get all scums lynched before that, they’re really unlikely to win as well…
So they basically have to kingmake help us

I don’t think aiming for a cross-kill or mafia-kill is good here though :/
The chances of that happening are small and unless the SK REALLY chooses his target’s with town’s benefits in mind, I would just lynch him.
Keeping them alive if they claim (before being lynched) MIGHT be ok depending on the circumstances (especially late game if there are a lot of mafia alive), but definitely not now.
It’s not like anyone here is likely to claim SK D1 anyway :/

[ejjinami]

@0verkill, can a Mafia member use their switch action as well as perform the factional kill?

I guess the answer will at least settle this much.

no, as long as the setup works same as this one, they can't

[ejjinami]

I don’t really like grumpy’s shitposts ):

/vote grumpynotacat

Excuse me?! I take serious offense to that. You just called a goomba a 'notacat'. That's seriously Catist of you.

hey, kitty~ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
do you prefer town or scum?

better?

can you answer this?
I admit that the question doesn’t go well with the joke, but it was supposed to be serious.

[Rickdaily12]

goddamn we'd have to lynch the mafia cop first in order to stand a chance at winning

Yep, until the Mafia Cop/Doctor switches are dead, we're pretty screwed.

I almost didn't join because of it and that's why I begged for either more citizens or a Town switch role, but no dice.

WAIT
IF MAFIA VIG DIES THAT MEANS ONE OF THE MAFIA WILL HAVE TO GIVE UP THEIR ACTION TO KILL

I'M BIG DUM

Yeah, but of the three switches, we probably want the Cop switch dead the most. Doctor will probably miss or not matter with Vig/Mafia/SK running around, and Vig usually does more harm than good for the Town anyway.


Hi ejj, btw o/

[ejjinami]

I flipped Citizen! ^_^
Good luck everyone!

lol @ seth trying to grab town cred and failing

OOF, actually, that would make so much sense

and it’s shade
Can’t tell if AI, but I don’t think flake would reveal Zucker’s main and criticize him immediately if they were mafia together.

Uzay is acting really townie rn btw

why

He seemed chill and he didn’t seem as concerned about “grabbing towncreed” and “writing meaningful posts” as in the last VFM I played with him. He even shitposted a bit, lol.
As I said before I’m not 100% confident in reading him based on it though

[ejjinami]

Hi ejj, btw o/

OwO

[Rickdaily12]

Have to step out for a bit. Will be back in a few hours.

[ejjinami]

Game start at 1 am? Interesting

Anyways as usual I’m totally and definitely citizen XD

Probably not SK
Mafia is still possible, but for some reason I feel the joke shouldn’t come from SK

Thank you Uzay very cool.

Also we have 3 bloody cit claims already why yall do this...

Tfios’s claim was obviously a joke.
Grumpy's response feels like a lamist overreaction, especially since he was only repeating what uzay said

Btw, this feels like Grumpy “believed the claim”…
If grumpy is maf, Tfio is town?
Meh, I’m not actually confident in it

[0verki11]

0verki11 (H0st)
UzayAltay
Crimson97
Chemist1422
tfiosforevah
cupcakeaj2
Dash2
Eragon1329
Rickdaily12
Qvapil
GrumpyGoomba
Mark Zuckerberg
Flake
Phone0Ix
ProtoZigg

Backups:
TheDebil
MoustachioMario[/spoiler]

thanks

[ejjinami]

reasoning being because entry was wolfy

tfios entries are always similarly wolfy
nai

That's not gonna change my view

Uzay is town honestly

Why do you think so? Just curious.

Because he's being how he always is as town, plus nothing strikes me as scummy.

can you be a bit more specific

No

I am most definitely not liking this response. My eyes are on you dash.

Another lamist post
and again, he just repeated how the other players reacted

Grumpy not voting Dash despite SRing him, feels like scum afraid to act on their reads

[0verki11]

Please dont specualte on alts mains thanks.

[0verki11]

@0verkill, can a Mafia member use their switch action as well as perform the factional kill?

I guess the answer will at least settle this much.

No

[Qvapil]

It also occurred to me that in the event the Vig dies, Mafia has 3 choices to make instead of 2. So they could either be careful and have the doc heal the cop, or risk a shot and use a switch on the SK, while still betting on the fact that SK won't interfere.

Wait if a pr dies, does that mean the corresponding mafia switch can just perform the factional kill without losing anything? That's scary, I hadn't thought of that sheesh

[ejjinami]

It doesn't help scum because seth and crimson both know that claiming cit immediately is bad, they're literally just creating WIFOM

:Facepalm:

I really don’t understand that reaction

And I don’t like the conversation between uzay and flake. Flake kept saying that “claims might be fake even if town” and uzay seemed to SR him for “being ok with them”, which would make sense only if uzay didn’t understand flake’s point at all.
And I don’t think that can be the case
The SR feels possibly fake.

/vote tfios

Um well, Dash.
That vote seemed like it happened for the sole purpose of bluntly voting someone.
Tfios always claims Citizen Day 1 and they usually are Citizen ^_^.

When I was reading you seemed the most sketchy. *_^

Shitty read: Would Zucker have added the thing about tfio usually being cit if he knew that this time she isn’t? (SvS)
UNLESS THERE WAS A CONVERSATION ABOUT THAT BEFORE, I think it might be unlikely.
Zucker doesn’t seem like the type to intentionally write that to manipulate the townies into TRing his teammate…

[Qvapil]

Assuming the SK is dead, mafia can just as easily use their cop to narrow down who is citizen and who is not, while the vig goes and shoots whoever

But mafia don't have a cop. What are you trying to say here?

[ejjinami]

Uzay is town honestly

Hmm. So because everyone else Is saying so you decided to join in?

Shade

I don’t get Zucker’s focus on dash

Uzay is town honestly

Why do you think so? Just curious.

Because he's being how he always is as town, plus nothing strikes me as scummy.

I think Zucker is Town because Zucker isn’t striked as scummy.
What kind of reasoning is that?
Zucker Questioning it.
That is dull reasoning
That seemed very low effort.
^_^

reasoning being because entry was wolfy

tfios entries are always similarly wolfy

nai

That's not gonna change my view

Uzay is town honestly

Why do you think so? Just curious.

Because he's being how he always is as town, plus nothing strikes me as scummy.

can you be a bit more specific

No

I don’t like this! ^_^
Too much Refusal!

What are those posts?
The read is crappy and is obviously fake
Either written just for “role(alt)-playing” purposes or just simply scum, but I don’t like it either way

[Qvapil]

Assuming the SK is dead, mafia can just as easily use their cop to narrow down who is citizen and who is not, while the vig goes and shoots whoever

But mafia don't have a cop. What are you trying to say here?

Yes they do

No, they can just switch the real cop on and off. Unless I misread, hang on

[Qvapil]

-big snip-

The reason I asked this question was to test the waters on how everyone else feels about it, though. I like what I got from it.

Could you share your thoughts on our responses rick?

[Qvapil]

so jord is like spewed town looool

Who is jord?

[ejjinami]

I was going to scumread zucker because I thought he was trying to go with the flow by opposing dash and townreading uzay. However their last post explaining their uzay read is great imo. They gave new, further reasons as to why uzay could be town, which I doubt scum would take the time to do.

Townie thought-process
I’m not actually that confident in the last post making him town though

Now I don’t know who Dash plays.
But I just feel as if he’s trying to fit in but is effort lacks majorly.
It feels really bad and I don’t think their really helping town whatsoever.

I don't know, I think flake is worse in that manner.

Hahaha, incredibly townie post xD
Qvap doesn’t seem to have a lot of experience and Flake is a good and “loud” player, so him challenging Flake like that feels incredibly town-motivated

[tfiosforevah]

You can take my claim seriously, or not, either way i never know how to enter so the naturalness doesn’t really indicate my alignment lol

[ejjinami]

Ok, I’m starting to feel more and more that all of zucker’s bullshit is just purposefully overblown “pressure” :/

Now I don’t know who Dash plays.
But I just feel as if he’s trying to fit in but is effort lacks majorly.
It feels really bad and I don’t think their really helping town whatsoever.

I don't know, I think flake is worse in that manner.

At least Flake is giving detail to back up what he’s done. ^_^
Dash Refuses to give Detail
Dash states stuff with no actual context
Dash doesn’t even look like they want to actually help town
Dash should be lynched today, if Flake is still very scummy tomorrow then we can definitely vote them.

Zucker’s confidence in the read makes no sense and it’s incredibly easy to spot
And he seems overly-enthusiastic to be able to push dash, which honestly doesn’t come from (newb?)scum often...
Sigh

[ejjinami]

Rick ejj where are you guys I need my sanity back

And actually, do I know you? :/