VFM42 | GIVE IT UP FOR DAY 4

[TakumiHijirihara]

you are all potatoes

Aye

[Eragon1329]

"This. Why did you think juck should be lynched day 1?”

Because he was literally openwolfing, and claimed to be openwolfing. Why wouldnt he believe that juck should have been lynched D1?

“Why weren't you backing down? I realize nobody had time to cc juck yet but you were still scum reading juck?”

Literally says - “I’m keeping my vote until I see if you are the only TP claim”

If there are no claims: Juck is town and stupid
If there are claims: Juck is scum and still stupid

thats what he’s saying.

“Not even 10 minutes later you back off on juck and jump on the chemist wagon since it was evident that chemist was scum. bussing fellow maf maybe?”

[b]“VoTiNg ChEmIsT mEaNs YoU aRe BuSsInG sCuM”
This can literally be said for anyone on the Chemist wagon except flipped town and/or confirmed claims. Its absolutely NAI to be on chemist wagon.[/b]

“Your only explanation was because "you believed he would flip scum"? Doesn't sound like a very strong reason, seems very fake”

If you believe someone flips scum, you obviously prefer them to be lynched over someone that flipped town, no? How does it seem fake to express that he thought Juck is scum?



The rest of the posts do have a point, but the ones above should never be used as a reason to scum read someone.

[lemonader666]

Jezz has requested replacement. Should I just can the game?

[Eragon1329]

noooooo jezz

i dont think the game should be canned unless we need 3+ replacements at a time?

i can deal with 1 person at a time, 2 might deserve a pause, 3 probably is a can.

[Soulshade55r]

I think Tracker should claim cit

Wait.
how did you know I was citizen?

[Eragon1329]

basically, i dont want to can the game because of the work everyone has put in, but like, i won't argue against it if other people want to can it

[Soulshade55r]

Jezz has requested replacement. Should I just can the game?

Nah it's fine this game is kinda going badly I guess.

[tfiosforevah]

basically, i dont want to can the game because of the work everyone has put in, but like, i won't argue against it if other people want to can it

I'd rather not because we've gotten this far

[TakumiHijirihara]

Ok. So. Nojezz. Shit. So. I'm gonna say rn Jezz is probably town. And I will whiteknight her slot until the replacement shows up. Soul is also conf town. Soo that's a little tricky.

/vote Tfios

I like some of your posts, but others I don't like. And I really don't like the posts you made defending yourself.

[TakumiHijirihara]

Would it be annoying to make a wall about tfios's defense posts

[tfiosforevah]

Would it be annoying to make a wall about tfios's defense posts

Nah even I’d like to see it.

[TakumiHijirihara]

Would it be annoying to make a wall about tfios's defense posts

Nah even I’d like to see it.

Kk bbq. Minor formatting edits will be made to your posts in order to show what parts I'm talking about. Fair warning, some of this is bordering on hypocrisy.

I keep forgetting that phone and tfios are in this game

apart from a short lived wagon phone has done not a lot

tfios might aswell reduce player limit to 12

i'm still working on my playing style here, and i'm always scum read anyways whenever i'm town soooo i usually just sit back while still making commentary when i have to. got any suggestions?

btw, i slept peacefully

The "I'm still working on my playstyle" could be passable. Just this once. But you can't use it as an excuse. If it were just a general statement, made once near the beginning of the game to warn other players of possible meta changes (Which is a whole nother issue entirely but people still fucking use it) or possible risky plays (which if they involve reaction tests should not be forewarned of.) It should not be used as an excuse to act scummy and try to get a free ride.

"I'm always scum read anyways whenever I'm town" is just bad. That's essentially saying that your townplay is scummy. Now, if you're town, and your town play is scummy, and you obviously aren't trying to change that and instead are just saying "Oh I'm always scummy as town" then you're a PL. Because at that point, it's better to just get rid of you than to deal with you in MyLo or LyLo.

However, inexperienced scum do tend to fall to that excuse as a reason for their failure to hide their scummy behavior. Scummy scum is also lynchworthy.

Now, you did ask for suggestions so as a spoilered sidebar, here are some resources I found useful when I first started FM and actually cared:

Spoiler: https://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=14221 - No matter what role you're playing this guide is actually a really important thing to keep in mind

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=30150#p885586

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... _Alignment - Yes, I know it's offsite, but it's useful

Basically the one thing you want to keep in mind playing any version of FM, it's that the most important thing is to pay attention and try your best. If you actually care about the game, don't settle for being scummy. Actively try and improve yourself. Try to be involved in discussion, yes I am well aware that with school and a life this is difficult, but do what you can when you can. Try to be open with your thoughts on what's going on with the game, don't wait for people to ask you, just speak your mind. When you see something point it out. Unless it's a softclaim. Then just take note for later and move on. If you're ever stuck as a citizen, don't worry about dying. Don't self-pres. In fact, get out there. Shove your towniness in everyone's face. Paint a target on your back so that scum are more worried about you than the PR who's tracking them down. And above all, enjoy the game. It's easy to grow disenchanted with FM. So enjoy it while you can.

OK. This is pt 1. My roommate is trying to sleep and I probably should too. So I'll finish the rest in the morning.

[tfiosforevah]

Would it be annoying to make a wall about tfios's defense posts

Nah even I’d like to see it.

Kk bbq. Minor formatting edits will be made to your posts in order to show what parts I'm talking about. Fair warning, some of this is bordering on hypocrisy.

I keep forgetting that phone and tfios are in this game

apart from a short lived wagon phone has done not a lot

tfios might aswell reduce player limit to 12

i'm still working on my playing style here, and i'm always scum read anyways whenever i'm town soooo i usually just sit back while still making commentary when i have to. got any suggestions?

btw, i slept peacefully

The "I'm still working on my playstyle" could be passable. Just this once. But you can't use it as an excuse. If it were just a general statement, made once near the beginning of the game to warn other players of possible meta changes (Which is a whole nother issue entirely but people still fucking use it) or possible risky plays (which if they involve reaction tests should not be forewarned of.) It should not be used as an excuse to act scummy and try to get a free ride.

"I'm always scum read anyways whenever I'm town" is just bad. That's essentially saying that your townplay is scummy. Now, if you're town, and your town play is scummy, and you obviously aren't trying to change that and instead are just saying "Oh I'm always scummy as town" then you're a PL. Because at that point, it's better to just get rid of you than to deal with you in MyLo or LyLo.

However, inexperienced scum do tend to fall to that excuse as a reason for their failure to hide their scummy behavior. Scummy scum is also lynchworthy.

Now, you did ask for suggestions so as a spoilered sidebar, here are some resources I found useful when I first started FM and actually cared:

Spoiler: https://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=14221 - No matter what role you're playing this guide is actually a really important thing to keep in mind

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=30150#p885586

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... _Alignment - Yes, I know it's offsite, but it's useful

Basically the one thing you want to keep in mind playing any version of FM, it's that the most important thing is to pay attention and try your best. If you actually care about the game, don't settle for being scummy. Actively try and improve yourself. Try to be involved in discussion, yes I am well aware that with school and a life this is difficult, but do what you can when you can. Try to be open with your thoughts on what's going on with the game, don't wait for people to ask you, just speak your mind. When you see something point it out. Unless it's a softclaim. Then just take note for later and move on. If you're ever stuck as a citizen, don't worry about dying. Don't self-pres. In fact, get out there. Shove your towniness in everyone's face. Paint a target on your back so that scum are more worried about you than the PR who's tracking them down. And above all, enjoy the game. It's easy to grow disenchanted with FM. So enjoy it while you can.

OK. This is pt 1. My roommate is trying to sleep and I probably should too. So I'll finish the rest in the morning.

Okay as you’ve noticed I have gotten more active since then, because yes I have been working on my playing style. And yes, I did say that I’ve always been scum read as town, but I have been working to change that. I’m sorry if it came off as an excuse, I genuinely was pointing it out for meta reasons. In previous games ive always been scum read until I can prove myself (I.e GFM throwback to 2015), but it is very hard to prove one’s self as a vanilla townie. I started playing back in early 2015, when nfm wasn’t a thing so I had to jump into the deep end of standard episodes, so I never really got the basics taught rather than experienced. As for the early inactivity, it was because I hadn’t played since 2017 and I needed to get my feet back on the ground. IMO I’ve definitely gotten better since the beginning of the game and I hope to improve my towniness reads later in the future and (hopefully) for this game. ((Also, thanks for the links that helped a lot! )

[tfiosforevah]

why am i seeing parallels with tfios and phone

both say that their play is shit because their playstyle is wip

is phone tfios' alt.

Nope this is my only account I’ve ever made on here or for TOS and I made it back in 2014

[lemonader666]

Current Vote Count

Player	Votes	Voters
	#	Votes Until Majority

[UzayAltay]

Okay, Uzay, you asked for me to explain. Here's that explanation.
Day 1:
Spoiler: you never talked about Crimson at all and ignored their lynch wagon. Why was that?

Phoenix , TBH If You changed your Style I can see both where scumread and your Logic come from , TBH it seems I should try to read it from mid/end-day If your early Game isnt very revelant .
And given that We are being closer to that part , could I ask You If You are suspecting somebody atm ?

Why were you focusing on phone? phone was very heavily scumread at that point so why would a townie care about who he read as scum?

I am gonna hypoclaim.

I am the Sheriff. The person named VC flipped red

And I Guess chemist did too (unless it's meme) and thats why he vote him?

Friendly reminder : I Dont understand What are You speaking about , but DONT speak about it being about or fake . You can speak about it Coming from scum or town , but Dont speak about is it fake or Real ( If it is Coming from town ) .

if you don't understand what i am speaking about that means you didn't read much & it's so early to gather me data...Probably Doesn't Matter Either i'm going to die early in the game

It was a friendly reminder , As I understand You were speaking about it is Coming from V or w , just I am not sure , and I want to remind You Because of You were swimming at dangerous Waters . ( acting near dangerous things )

Why were you threatening juck? What did juck do that seemed scummy?

{Chemist}
{Crimson, Wabbit, Takumi, Jezz}
{Soul, Mario, Noping, tfios, Eragon}
{juck, Phone, Uzay}
{}

p-edit: Would say that's towny for Soul

Where is The read on me and Phone comes ?
And Why I am Same tier with Juck ????

Why are you surprised about being on the same tier as juck, but not surprised as being on the same tier as Phone? At that point, phone was a lot scummier than juck was for the majority of the town
Day 2:
Spoiler:

Okay , Juck and Soul is hard-buddying each other ( or Actually Juck is buddying Soul Because Soul was pushing Chem , Than Juck started The push , too ) but They cant be scum Unless We assumed There was only 1 scum in Crimson wagon , which seems very unlikely to me .
Now Lets look The EOD situation , with Jezz and Juck being The lead wagons .
The thing I want to eleminate is Juck V Jezz w situation , it would be much easier and low risky to CFD Juck , given that Jezz wasnt even scumread at that point . Even though it is possible , very very unlikely , considering me TR jess , SR Juck , and above thing .
But , opposite is quite possible , Because mislynching Town!jezz from A team includes scum!juck would be suicide , with main pusher+Juck would immadieatly scumread , and probably lynched later .
This come to Another place :
Would A Mafia without Juck tried to mislynch Town!Jezz ! This is Possible , but detailing on that would be highly speculative.

The scenario which make More sense is ( If We ignore Both being scum ) is Scum!juck , given that Trying to mislynch V!jezz would be suicide . And even We considering both scum , it Dont change Juvk scum make The most sense .

You never acknowledged this read after it was revealed that juck was bodydouble and soul is tracker. what do you think about jezz now using this same logic?

/vote juck

I believe You should be lynched Day 1 , but late is better Than none .

This. Why did you think juck should be lynched day 1?

My Actual ROLE IS BODYDOUBLE SO Town lets Maker IT LET STAR Pushing chemist today and we lynch eragon and uzay wait


Lets Start with Uazy

/Vote Uazy

Than Why You are keep saying " there is sheriff " ?
And Why You are keep role-fıshing even I Said Almost start of Day 1 I would deathtunnel anyone doing that ?
I am keeping my vote until Seeing You are only TP claim .

Why weren't you backing down? I realize nobody had time to cc juck yet but you were still scum reading juck?

If Juck is Body double then chemist visiting Juck is 100% scum.

Hard Tracker claim here

Hard CCing Tracker, no visits on Eragon

I claimed cit because if Soul was scum I would be killed that night + didn’t want to out myself

/vote Soul

TBH Soul 's claim is More believable , given that he claimed First , and he softed it .
And given that Soul had no reason to Do that as scum
/vote Chem

Not even 10 minutes later you back off on juck and jump on the chemist wagon since it was evident that chemist was scum. bussing fellow maf maybe?

Now uzay push wow he if you lynched me D1 You will lose your TP Luckliy iwasn't lynched

It was Said 100 Times


YOU DONT HAVE TO OPENWOLF AS PR
Like I Can even give You The Thread about This being discussed
I am just being pissed

shut up you are arrstend

Arrstend ?
Can I ask Everyone Is there anybody who Thinks If you openwolfed or not ?
I am sure You Will Get More Than %75 votes .

Actually Wait , Lets Do This
Hope This Will make your Plays better in long time

Votecount on Juck openwolfed or not
/vote openwolfed

Openwolfed -1 - UzayAltay
Not openwolfed - 0 -

I am really doing This .

Seriously? Did you thought i played like town? IK My claim was gone save me so i start a trap vote from being of game i did openwolfed

if i was cit i never come with that behaviour BTW This doesn't make you free you still defend chemist like eragon

You : I played Like scum
Also You : The people push me are scum .

It's sad both PRs had to out but even if I did out without Juck it would of had the same effect because they would die protecting me

Yeah man i was not gone claim since this idiots voted me in same time they didn't even ask my role thats make them obv scum ik you had lead thats why i voted him but i was going to still start my trap vote (acting like scum saved me from maf cause they were sure i was going to be lynched D2 So use this too)

We wont say you to claim Unless You were pushed Because of A claim ( for example , A Red-check ) , You should manually claim at L3 ( or L2 , but L 3 is better I believe ) .

Also I believe You should see This : viewtopic.php?f=18&t=91047

yeah sure they guy who said "I Should lynched You D1" For What? did i speak to much or i was threat to mafia? btw by claiming that i'm scum i was just doing memephase and thats how you got offended that you imm vote me D1

Because of A mislynch happened Day 1
And I believed You would flip scum ?

Your only explanation was because "you believed he would flip scum"? Doesn't sound like a very strong reason, seems very fake

Be Honest You were going to lynch me hard for no reason did you gave me a chance?

You could think Day 1 lynch Dont happen on You as A chance
And not openwolf Day 2 , too .
And it is not possible giving chances to players every time , but You had A chance , and You didnt used that either .
For The people who didnt have The chance , look : Crimson

This was your defense to juck's question? Even I have the same question (look above to previous point)
Day 3:
Spoiler:

The quick hammer should not have happened, like after soul outing chemist was always gonna be the lynch but we could have used the discussion time
I mean takumi and Mario hadn’t even checked in yet
But whatever
Good thing is we’re one scum down and our TP was someone mafia would not have NK’ed as a priority if he were VT so lol

I believe we are on a good spot ,but we may lose our advantage with a ML , so we need to be cautious here .

And? Got anything more to add to this?

day 2 wagon is kinda useless to look at for vca purposes since everyone just piled onto chemist
I'll need to go back and check vote context probably, but even that might be hard since soul literally had a guilty on chemist

but here's day 1 updated with confirmed alignments

Crimson|5|Jezz, Chemist, Mario, Noping, Eragon
Juck|2|Wabbit, Uzay
Wabbit|1|Soul
Jezz|1|Crimson
Chemist|1|Juck

not voting: tfios, phone, takumi


I'm way more biased here cos I know I'm town and imo I have doubts that scum would feel the need to pile on crimsons wagon if they knew the counter choices were town + a non threatening wagon on chemist.

But for everyone else:
- Do you think there were 0,1 or 2 scum other than chemist on the wagon? if 1-2, who is/are most likely?
- If there is 1 scum there other than chemist, would the other scum be more likely uzay, or a non-voter?
- If there is 0 scum there other than chemist, where would the 2 scum be?

2 is impossible unless Eragon/Jezz , which I cant see , and if it is the answer we are already lost. ( I dont think no other scum team except this can pull this off )
Both 1 and 0 is possible , thinking more on 1 like yesterday , bur 0 isnt off-possibility , due juck flipping v as well .

SO, from my PoV , ( assuming you are v ) , It is at least 1 in ( tfios, phone, takumi ) and at most 1 in ( Mario, Noping, Eragon ) .

Why is Takumi in the same pool as me and phone? I don't recall them being read the same as either of us.

[spoiler](Moral Speaking )

-Ehem Ehem
This speaking would be mainly towards Jezz , Because Jezz is The most experienced Player here , and have much More believable things Than us .

I believe that staying in our and other people's memories is More important Than staying in paper's , staying in paper's Also good , but would it Matter If nobody remembers You when You Meet again ?

Now , Lets back to The Game . First , Lets back to The point I was on at Last
" SO, from my PoV , ( assuming you are v ) , It is at least 1 in ( tfios, phone, takumi ) and at most 1 in ( Mario, Noping, Eragon ) . "

Now , Lets put The tiers
{Soul} (90-100)
{Jezz , Mario } (65-90)
{Takumi , Eragon , Noping } - Null line (40-65)
{TheDebil , tfiosforevah } (15-40)
{} ( (0-15)

If We put This at Numbers :
Soul = 100
Jezz = 85
Mario = 80
Eragon = 62
Takumi = 58
Noping = 54
Debil = 50
Tfiosforeva = 25

Explanations :
Soul = Should I really explain This ?
Jezz = The most townie person IMO .
I am ready to nominate him for best play If he flips scum Ever .
Like his posts are All Trying to move The Game forward , and I believe , Geniune .
Mario =

trying to work out whether or not mario's posts are AI is probably one of the most frustrating things I've encountered in FM

And with Jezz's explanation being only strong explanation about his Alignment , and it make sense , I am Actually agreeing with Jezz here .

Eragon = ( For Looking Why Takumi is below Eragon , look "Takumi Explanation " )
Some part of This read is Literally mirror of his reads , wuth A Few More , wont Quote it again .
About other things , mainly his Day 3 is The thing which smells me as Town!Eragon .

Takumi = Actually , he is Obviously More townie Than Eragon , but one thing is crossing my mind , so I should leave A doubt on them .The thing is , Chemist pushing Mario when he had A scumread on Jezz/Takumi . My mind is saying that What If This is A " Attack The Attacker " situation ? Even I am TRing Takumi , I want to have A doubt .

Noping = You know , he is Also hard to read , Like Mario , Jezz is believing Noping is town but I am A bit close to Null , only reason I am leaning town ( very Tiny ) atm is some of his posts seems Geniune , and PoE makes him More likely town atm .
Noping , I am not considering You as Today's lynch ( Because there is A better candidate ) , but I should see your reads , Because You are A strong candidate for tmrrw , IMO .

TheDebil = He come as new , Seems good so far , and I believe I can solve him tomorrow .

tfiosforeva = Seems completely fake . From him not Explaining The read on me , to change reads completely with smallest pressure , at every point , he seems fake . Just compare him with Debil ,and You Will see The difference .

/vote tfiosforeva

I’d just like to point out to everyone in the town a few things that I find of note. I’d like to point out who the main person is that is pushing me, just in case I do get lynched today. Here’s my take on things. Yes, I acknowledge that even I realize that my reads aren’t the best, but that’s because I haven’t played in years, and irl I cave to pressure quickly so that sometimes translates here. Here’s another thing. Why am I still alive? I know there’s only been two nights so far, but from what I believe, the Mafia won’t kill me at night. Why? Because a lot of people are scum reading me and I acknowledge that I need to work on my playing style. So why is that important? It’s because I’m an easy target to push in the daytime, and once I flip town they could easily pull a “oh whoops we legit thought she was scum sorry” and move on. Here’s the thing, I KNOW THAT I AM TOWN. If you don’t believe me, you do you, but when I flip town come back and read this post. I’m in most people’s bottom two for scum right now, so you should be looking for another player.

You Literally Said I had posts which is asked at wrong times ?
If You Said I had posts , you should be able to at least Quote 1-2 of them , even without explanation .
But I still not Seeing anything .
And for reminder , Not having laptop for A while shouldn't be A reason for unexplained reads , when I play Almost full Game ( or even More , I had 32 games Played on This site ( Actually hadnt played at Another site but whatever it is not The topic ) , and at least 25 of them was at full mobile , with 7 being only sometimes mobile sometimes PC , and I believe it is not A problem for not Explaining reads .

Now you know why I had to wait for my laptop for me to post this extensive list. If you are town, I'd be seriously shocked.
[/spoiler]
And that's all the posts that have made me scumread uzay. There's that explanation you've been waiting for.

1) Crimson wagon was A CFD , I wasnt even there .
And You Also hadnt joined The wagon , or suggest A counter-wagon , so , What is your point here ?
2) So You are saying townies should ignore other people's reads :thinking:
Why would I not care about sb else's read ?
3) Because he was either just at The line , or already passed it about my Red-line which I Said .
And Seriously , I Said Everyone that We shouldn't speak about PR Softs , Because obvious reasons .
4) And ? If sb is scumread by most of The town , should I ask sheep them ? If You notice , I am not scumreading Phone at that point .
Day 2
1) What ? Where Jezz used Same Logic ( assuming for clear himself , Because where else he would use ) ? I am not remembering that .

2) Because of I was scumreading him ?
Even my vote was on him at Day 1 ?

3) He claimed Bodydouble
With saying " Sheriff should claim " at The start of Day 2
Yes , I was still scumreading him , Because it isnt unusual scum claiming TP .

4) I Literally Said Start of The Day Soul is probably V
Than Soul claimed tracker and Chemist CC Soul
I Obviously believed Soul , I was already townreading him ( and Juck was buddying him , for example ) , and after claim , it was obvious Chemist is lying .

5) Okay , so , next time I Will push The person I think Will flip town .
Seriously though , he openwolfed , he Also accepted he had openwolfed , I think it is even More suspicious people not being suspicious from him .

6) What is Same question ?
And What is The problem with answer ?
I Literally Said he had The chance for not lynched Day 1 , havent use that either Day 2 .

Day 3

1) What ?
2) PoE :thinking:
Literally groups are voters and not voters of Crimson .

Final : I am not sure on that , but as I remember most of these arent even question .

[TheDebil]

you are all potatoes

you were saying?

[TheDebil]

could this be TvT?

also tfios: uzay was tracked and did not visit anyone. what do you think of that? think he could be blackmailer didn't visit?

[tfiosforevah]

could this be TvT?

also tfios: uzay was tracked and did not visit anyone. what do you think of that? think he could be blackmailer didn't visit?

I mean there’s two mafia and one of them doesn’t visit so that doesn’t mean uzay had to visit anybody as mafia

[MoustachioMario]

could this be TvT?

also tfios: uzay was tracked and did not visit anyone. what do you think of that? think he could be blackmailer didn't visit?

I mean there’s two mafia and one of them doesn’t visit so that doesn’t mean uzay had to visit anybody as mafia

How can bmer be useful if FM?

[tfiosforevah]

could this be TvT?

also tfios: uzay was tracked and did not visit anyone. what do you think of that? think he could be blackmailer didn't visit?

I mean there’s two mafia and one of them doesn’t visit so that doesn’t mean uzay had to visit anybody as mafia

How can bmer be useful if FM?

It's not useful so then why visit anybody?

[MoustachioMario]

could this be TvT?

also tfios: uzay was tracked and did not visit anyone. what do you think of that? think he could be blackmailer didn't visit?

I mean there’s two mafia and one of them doesn’t visit so that doesn’t mean uzay had to visit anybody as mafia

How can bmer be useful if FM?

It's not useful so then why visit anybody?

You confused me :P

Why wouldn't you visit anyone?

[TheDebil]

Blackmailer

You are a Blackmailer

Your alignment is Mafia Tactical

Everyone who knows you doesn't want anything to do with you, but typically it's too late by then. Heck, even among the Mafia you are given the cold shoulder. With a smile almost creepily plastered on your face all the time, you have an unhealthy obsession with your job more so than any other member, and that's just what the Godfather wanted. You are the Blackmailer.

Each night you may visit a single player's house, you are informed of what roles also visit them.
Each day you can send three anonymous messages to any player. The player may send a message back if they wish.
Anonymous messages are limited to 200 characters.
You can communicate with your allies each night, for as long as they are alive.

Your allies are [x] the [role], [x] the [role], and [x] the [role]

You win with the Mafia
You must kill the Town

[TheDebil]

BMer ain't good so perhaps it wasn't used to avoid marshal

[MoustachioMario]

BMer ain't good so perhaps it wasn't used to avoid marshal

wdym