15C: TNS | Game Over! Detonator/Shade win (The Biggest Bang)

[chitownmvp01]

And nobody listened to me cause why?

Because you were pushing Uzay as part of the scum team and he was obvious town imo.

[ElusiveBelle]

And nobody listened to me cause why?

As Chit said, but really it also came down to Wabbit having a stronger lock town position than you did.
Didn't do much favours in arguing against it. Granted that was one hell of a steep argument to climb

[Eragon1329]

And nobody listened to me cause why?

As Chit said, but really it also came down to Wabbit having a stronger lock town position than you did.
Didn't do much favours in arguing against it. Granted that was one hell of a steep argument to climb

True...

[TheWabbit]

This is a larger version of NFM38

I'm Stri, the guy who fakeclaimed sheriff
Olly is dsmc1999(?), who was leashed the whole game yet still won
Eragon1329 is xUltiix, who was a madman who got the mafia team yet no one listened to
Evan was me, who got lynched for a scum claim
Jamezbeast was HeavensDesert, who looked Town until flip

now time to focus on other stuff

Eragon wasn't acting like a dictator though, unlike xUltiix. Nobody listened to xUltiix because him acting like a dictator annoyed people.

well that's the good side

[chitownmvp01]

This is a larger version of NFM38

I'm Stri, the guy who fakeclaimed sheriff
Olly is dsmc1999(?), who was leashed the whole game yet still won
Eragon1329 is xUltiix, who was a madman who got the mafia team yet no one listened to
Evan was me, who got lynched for a scum claim
Jamezbeast was HeavensDesert, who looked Town until flip

now time to focus on other stuff

Eragon wasn't acting like a dictator though, unlike xUltiix. Nobody listened to xUltiix because him acting like a dictator annoyed people.

well that's the good side

yeah

[ElusiveBelle]

True...

Really it wasn't you, Wabbit just got himself pushed into a lock town block.
Mafia got very luck RT rolled cit, also that NE rolled witch kek but that's besides the point, had a PR rolled instead the game likely would have been very different.
But that's FM for ya in a nutshell

[Tiltedcomedian]

чанд нафар метавонанд тухмдонҳои резинии резинро резанд

pets FurCakez

[BasicFourLife]

wait one question

how did gobln know evan was scum

[RAmcius]

wait one question

how did gobln know evan was scum

because gobln is good at FM

[SirCakez]

чанд нафар метавонанд тухмдонҳои резинии резинро резанд

pets FurCakez

no

Mod review and released game sheet will be up sometime this weekend

[chitownmvp01]

чанд нафар метавонанд тухмдонҳои резинии резинро резанд

pets FurCakez

no

Mod review and released game sheet will be up sometime this weekend

nice

[Varanus]

Second time recently hosts have leaked info to the dead chat with medium around.
If you have medium in your game (which you shouldn't), just don't talk the the dead people. At all. We don't need these mistakes.

And once again, leashed NK displays why having NK at all is a mistake. It puts mafia in a position where they have choose between town and NK winning, through no fault of their own.

[Varanus]

It was especially bad on the NK bit this game, because they killed literally nobody the entire game before mafia had to kingmake.
They won just for existing, and through no merit of their own.

[chitownmvp01]

It was especially bad on the NK bit this game, because they killed literally nobody the entire game before mafia had to kingmake.
They won just for existing, and through no merit of their own.

Yeah, but we wanted to make Mafia lose if town couldn't win.

[Varanus]

It was especially bad on the NK bit this game, because they killed literally nobody the entire game before mafia had to kingmake.
They won just for existing, and through no merit of their own.

Yeah, but we wanted to make Mafia lose if town couldn't win.

Precisely. This isn't the first time this has happened. I did the exact same thing when I rolled detonator back in 10D.
The point is for town to keep a NK around so that if town loses, you can just make NK win. Which in turn means mafia becomes a kingmaker between town and NK, and can't win at all.

[RAmcius]

well, strongman can help mitigate this issue

[ElusiveBelle]

Precisely. This isn't the first time this has happened. I did the exact same thing when I rolled detonator back in 10D.
The point is for town to keep a NK around so that if town loses, you can just make NK win. Which in turn means mafia becomes a kingmaker between town and NK, and can't win at all.

That is what inspired the finish here, really it does prove the point though as there was close to nothing mafia could do here to mitigate the loss coming to them. Once the plan was in motion and town in agreement as well as NK working with town it was a near impossible hill to climb even with deep wolf Wabbit in pocket.

However had a different NK been in play things likely would not be the same, the lack of lethality with detonator once leashed basically makes them non existent while something like stalker, sk, or even Arso would be a much more serious threat.

I would also note that neutrals benign also make their purpose moot when they reveal D1 or D2 for an easy win rather than play the role strategically or with any interest.

[Gobln]

I enjoyed this game.
:^J ggs.

[Varanus]

well, strongman can help mitigate this issue

Mafia having to kill NK themselves to have a chance at winning will make this issue even worse, because it gives town more incentive to keep NK alive to force mafia to waste a kill on other scum
The only proper fix here is to have all NK style roles win with mafia

[RAmcius]

well, strongman can help mitigate this issue

Mafia having to kill NK themselves to have a chance at winning will make this issue even worse, because it gives town more incentive to keep NK alive to force mafia to waste a kill on other scum
The only proper fix here is to have all NK style roles win with mafia

[SirCakez]

Ahem the Medium was dead when I leaked to dead chat
NK kingmaking is silly I agree. Deto is especially problematic because it signals so much and has trouble killing alone. But NK when done right (I;e not revealed immediately) can be a lot of fun and it keeps games spicy.

Also I lied sheet and review will come tomorrow.

[RAmcius]

Ahem the Medium was dead when I leaked to dead chat
NK kingmaking is silly I agree. Deto is especially problematic because it signals so much and has trouble killing alone. But NK when done right (I;e not revealed immediately) can be a lot of fun and it keeps games spicy.

Also I lied sheet and review will come tomorrow.

I don't think you get your point to Var, he's not a fan of spicy games

[SirCakez]

I'm aware but Var is not the only one commenting on the issue so thought I'd make an open post.

[SirCakez]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
^ there is the game sheet. Sorry that took so long to release. For the last few nights I just listed what night actions were.
Mod review will be up in a bit. Won't be much that hasn't already been said.

[SirCakez]

Mod review
Like I said earlier, I was rooting for a mafia win. Jamez and Wabbit played really well, they went almost completely unsuspected all game, and only got caught out at the end due to POE. Jamez should not have claimed scum on day 8, that was a major error that cost mafia the game since town immediately powerlynched him. Wabbit's Deto suicide was also questionable, but due to the Detownator plan most likely the same result would have happened in the end. Evan claiming scum early on was ??? but he manipulated town well at day. Shocking that he wasn't lynched day 2 as claimed scum. Poly just needed to be more active and a better claim. They were really unlucky with the two Invest check claims on them.

Neutrals - MM was whatever, he did little. Chit played into the confirmed town really well and kept town going in the lategame. Strong play from him, Eragon misread was unfortunate.
Retral's night 2 action was genius, but his day 3 play was lol. That slot was ugly with MichaelgRook barely playing.
Olly - meh. He didn't play badly and he just got unlucky with EvilD. Basically coasted to a win while everyone else self destructed lol.
Mystic also meh for basically same reasons.

Town - no one played really badly! The night 2 disaster was a lot of bad luck and a smart action from Retral. Gobln's powertowning day 2 with Soul was well done. However the game may have ended completely differently if Evan had been lynched day 2. That was the biggest misplay town made IMO. Mislynching Eragon was unfortunate but it made sense with what town knew. All of the Cits played pretty well and kept the game moving. There weren't any useless lurkers or anything like that. Just really unfortunate night 2.