Episode XV | Game over! | Mafia/Witch WIN | Last Santa Game

[ZoruaLuhansk]

From this episode I learned that to win you need to catch all scum and not just deathtunnel one

[Exacerbated]

the reason why people think it is weak is because they treat it as a cop rather than a doc

no, it's weak, because it's very situational, while sheriff and invest can give results every night.

And it's not doc, it can work as pseudo TP, when outed, but that's it, lookout have no power to save someone, just to redirect kill on someone less important

1 for 1 better than saving someone

[Watt2015]

From this episode I learned that to win you need to catch all scum and not just deathtunnel one

From this game I learned we all need to go back to NFM. Except Uzay. Uzay get's a gold star.

[Exacerbated]

From this episode I learned that to win you need to catch all scum and not just deathtunnel one

you need to be able to convince the town that you're right

that's impossible when people are second guessing your motivations

[UzayAltay]

Also I agree to a lucky witch Scenario. Do considering you alredy checked them and they appeared as citi. I'm thinking slightly it could be Uzay as it appears he's under the radar slightly. However, wouldn't it better to lynch Jamez as "Consort" as we can still be stopped by him. He's convinced Schultz is Consig so he may get blocked I think.

Also, going through my maths, we need six majority tomorrow, one more kill the evils and town are locked in a stalemate right?

Town is in MyLo right now.

Uzay is super easy to read based ob meta and he is town.

Lynching Jamez is the optimal play in every universe. I can pin him as scum from Ultiix interactions as well. If Jamez is somehow undoable I'll advocate Lucky

:think:

The last few scum games I saw you play you slanked and were easy to catch. My perspective of you has definitely shifted based on this game.

Actually I was Ready for this play , but can't play .
TFM 65 , I was bad TBH , but I Motivated myself about Find the traitor and than goes on , but when you signalled , I became a bit demotivated , and played bad .
TFM 66, Jamez made a very good plan , but I can't play , Quick-hammers happened a Lot of time , mostly before I checked in .
Than there is this game . I actually want to roll town and break the evils win-chain ( 14 B was the last standart game town won ) , but After I roll witch , I was Happy , because of I don't know Any evils , which gives no reason to stressed . I decide to not signal at All , because of I don't know how to signal .

[EvanManManMan]

I had god tier signals this game.

[Exacerbated]

uzay what is your first language

[Schultz128]

uzay what is your first language

Turkish.

[RAmcius]

the reason why people think it is weak is because they treat it as a cop rather than a doc

no, it's weak, because it's very situational, while sheriff and invest can give results every night.

And it's not doc, it can work as pseudo TP, when outed, but that's it, lookout have no power to save someone, just to redirect kill on someone less important

1 for 1 better than saving someone

so, now lookout becomes bg?

if there's TP allive, it's pseudo TP - scum will be scared to kill important people, without TPs it's bodydouble at best - scum just kills lookout. To go 1 for 1 you need guess "safe" kill, but then we in WIFOM zone - what if scum kills someone you supposed to protect on assumption you're WIFOMing?

[chitownmvp01]

Like I love you and all Santa but you seriously did not do a good job with hosting this episode.

That I have realised, which is why the title is probably going to hold (at least for a good while)

Idk what happened, but the title made me think that Santa was resigning from the mod team, which apparently isn't true. Or am I wrong?

Congrats to the Mafia and Witch!

[Exacerbated]

the reason why people think it is weak is because they treat it as a cop rather than a doc

no, it's weak, because it's very situational, while sheriff and invest can give results every night.

And it's not doc, it can work as pseudo TP, when outed, but that's it, lookout have no power to save someone, just to redirect kill on someone less important

1 for 1 better than saving someone

so, now lookout becomes bg?

if there's TP allive, it's pseudo TP - scum will be scared to kill important people, without TPs it's bodydouble at best - scum just kills lookout. To go 1 for 1 you need guess "safe" kill, but then we in WIFOM zone - what if scum kills someone you supposed to protect on assumption you're WIFOMing?

In your example, Lookout gives useful information and provides a lot of value even in the WCS that is only sometimes slightly worse than the Sheriff and Investigator.

It's that in the BCS Lookout is by far superior to Sheriff and Investigator, as Sheriff and Investigator will always provide fuzzy and uncertain information while Lookout provides incontrovertible proof (because there aren't any Ninjas or Hiders in ToS FM).

In fact, the Sheriff and Investigator's results can potentially be negative utility to town whereas Lookout results almost never are (unless you're an idiot and just out your PRs for no reason, but that's not the fault of the role, but the player).

[chitownmvp01]

From this episode I learned that to win you need to catch all scum and not just deathtunnel one

I'm glad that you learned this lesson now rather than later.

[Veeena]

>leaving Evan alive in general after D3

[RAmcius]

the reason why people think it is weak is because they treat it as a cop rather than a doc

no, it's weak, because it's very situational, while sheriff and invest can give results every night.

And it's not doc, it can work as pseudo TP, when outed, but that's it, lookout have no power to save someone, just to redirect kill on someone less important

1 for 1 better than saving someone

so, now lookout becomes bg?

if there's TP allive, it's pseudo TP - scum will be scared to kill important people, without TPs it's bodydouble at best - scum just kills lookout. To go 1 for 1 you need guess "safe" kill, but then we in WIFOM zone - what if scum kills someone you supposed to protect on assumption you're WIFOMing?

In your example, Lookout gives useful information and provides a lot of value even in the WCS that is only sometimes slightly worse than the Sheriff and Investigator.

It's that in the BCS Lookout is by far superior to Sheriff and Investigator, as Sheriff and Investigator will always provide fuzzy and uncertain information while Lookout provides incontrovertible proof (because there aren't any Ninjas or Hiders in ToS FM).

In fact, the Sheriff and Investigator's results can potentially be negative utility to town whereas Lookout results almost never are (unless you're an idiot and just out your PRs for no reason, but that's not the fault of the role, but the player).

It's not about BCS or WCS, but about average results. You can't say X role is better, because sometimes it can perform better, while other times it's much worse. How many times you have got no results with lookout? Or you just see some random town visits?

And if you get fuzzy results with invest/sheriff, git gud maybe?

[Exacerbated]

the reason why people think it is weak is because they treat it as a cop rather than a doc

no, it's weak, because it's very situational, while sheriff and invest can give results every night.

And it's not doc, it can work as pseudo TP, when outed, but that's it, lookout have no power to save someone, just to redirect kill on someone less important

1 for 1 better than saving someone

so, now lookout becomes bg?

if there's TP allive, it's pseudo TP - scum will be scared to kill important people, without TPs it's bodydouble at best - scum just kills lookout. To go 1 for 1 you need guess "safe" kill, but then we in WIFOM zone - what if scum kills someone you supposed to protect on assumption you're WIFOMing?

In your example, Lookout gives useful information and provides a lot of value even in the WCS that is only sometimes slightly worse than the Sheriff and Investigator.

It's that in the BCS Lookout is by far superior to Sheriff and Investigator, as Sheriff and Investigator will always provide fuzzy and uncertain information while Lookout provides incontrovertible proof (because there aren't any Ninjas or Hiders in ToS FM).

In fact, the Sheriff and Investigator's results can potentially be negative utility to town whereas Lookout results almost never are (unless you're an idiot and just out your PRs for no reason, but that's not the fault of the role, but the player).

It's not about BCS or WCS, but about average results. You can't say X role is better, because sometimes it can perform better, while other times it's much worse. How many times you have got no results with lookout? Or you just see some random town visits?

And if you get fuzzy results with invest/sheriff, git gud maybe?

Seeing even one random town visit is good because you both narrow down the lynch pool and know who to build rapport with in thread. If you see multiple town visits, then that's even better than a Sheriff or Investigator could hope for, as you've cleared 2 or more people with one night's worth of actions (efficiency).

Seeing nothing is also valuable information, because you know that they're more likely to be scum AND that they weren't prioritized as a target by scum. Seeing nothing as a Lookout is only slightly worse than an NS result, which can mean anything from Town to Godfather to Arsonist to Witch to Bomber.

Sheriff and Investigator inherently provide fuzzy results that are sometimes negative utility, more often than you might think.

I also wouldn't be telling someone with a much better record than you to "git gud" either.

[RAmcius]

how to determine, if visit was from town and not scum PR? And i like how "not visited" very likely to be scum

also, i like how you "know" my record and just fact that you think win record matters says a lot about you, so yes, git gud

[Exacerbated]

how to determine, if visit was from town and not scum PR? And i like how "not visited" very likely to be scum

also, i like how you "know" my record and just fact that you think win record matters says a lot about you, so yes, git gud

who cares, you found PR, very good

the fact of the matter is that lookout provides better value when played optimally than all other TI, and a skilled player will be able to get a hit a lot more often than average

[RAmcius]

how to determine, if visit was from town and not scum PR? And i like how "not visited" very likely to be scum

also, i like how you "know" my record and just fact that you think win record matters says a lot about you, so yes, git gud

who cares, you found PR, very good

the fact of the matter is that lookout provides better value when played optimally than all other TI, and a skilled player will be able to get a hit a lot more often than average

wow, you learn that someone isn't cit, and witch can mess with it too by forcing cit to visit.

a skilled player, yes, but most people aren't that skilled, so lookout roll in general is worse than sheriff/invest

[UzayAltay]

how to determine, if visit was from town and not scum PR? And i like how "not visited" very likely to be scum

also, i like how you "know" my record and just fact that you think win record matters says a lot about you, so yes, git gud

who cares, you found PR, very good

the fact of the matter is that lookout provides better value when played optimally than all other TI, and a skilled player will be able to get a hit a lot more often than average

wow, you learn that someone isn't cit, and witch can mess with it too by forcing cit to visit.

a skilled player, yes, but most people aren't that skilled, so lookout roll in general is worse than sheriff/invest

Witch cant force a non-visiting role to visit .

[RAmcius]

how to determine, if visit was from town and not scum PR? And i like how "not visited" very likely to be scum

also, i like how you "know" my record and just fact that you think win record matters says a lot about you, so yes, git gud

who cares, you found PR, very good

the fact of the matter is that lookout provides better value when played optimally than all other TI, and a skilled player will be able to get a hit a lot more often than average

wow, you learn that someone isn't cit, and witch can mess with it too by forcing cit to visit.

a skilled player, yes, but most people aren't that skilled, so lookout roll in general is worse than sheriff/invest

Witch cant force a non-visiting role to visit .

are you sure about it? I'm pretty sure i asked about it long ago and was told that witch force cit to visit

[UzayAltay]

how to determine, if visit was from town and not scum PR? And i like how "not visited" very likely to be scum

also, i like how you "know" my record and just fact that you think win record matters says a lot about you, so yes, git gud

who cares, you found PR, very good

the fact of the matter is that lookout provides better value when played optimally than all other TI, and a skilled player will be able to get a hit a lot more often than average

wow, you learn that someone isn't cit, and witch can mess with it too by forcing cit to visit.

a skilled player, yes, but most people aren't that skilled, so lookout roll in general is worse than sheriff/invest

Witch cant force a non-visiting role to visit .

are you sure about it? I'm pretty sure i asked about it long ago and was told that witch force cit to visit

I asked Santa , because of I didnt know . Santa answered like that .
Actually it should added to ECO .

[RAmcius]

well, we found another fix for Var - change text on witch rolecard to be clear, if witch can force cit to visit or not

[Kmenx]

I thought a witch can force a non visiting role to visit

[Kmenx]

I also wouldn't be telling someone with a much better record than you to "git gud" either.

Not to offend you Exa but win record doesn't mean jack shit yeah you are a good player but dota2reporter had a
6 0 wL record

[ChubbyMooshroom9]

I also wouldn't be telling someone with a much better record than you to "git gud" either.

Not to offend you Exa but win record doesn't mean jack shit yeah you are a good player but dota2reporter had a
6 0 wL record

Do not blaspheme the lord