[Newcomer FM] NFM54 | Xalerion the GOAT

[DesertStorm11]

@Alexander
@SeasonToAttack
@Xalerion

I’ll ask you this question too, since you’re in the same boat:

any input on any of the previous discussion? You seem awfully quiet.

[polypies73]

@Alexander
@SeasonToAttack
@Xalerion

I’ll ask you this question too, since you’re in the same boat:

any input on any of the previous discussion? You seem awfully quiet.

You can’t really do much about them being inactive.

What we can do is get discussion.

I claim PR.

[ZoruaLuhansk]

@Alexander
@SeasonToAttack
@Xalerion

I’ll ask you this question too, since you’re in the same boat:

any input on any of the previous discussion? You seem awfully quiet.

You can’t really do much about them being inactive.

What we can do is get discussion.

I claim PR.

*rotten tomato*

[ZoruaLuhansk]

Zorua... you just random-accused Oregon... that’s not exactly a Townie thing to do
And gabby is actually being helpful, and I’m trying to be

So... I don’t get your motives here

[I would put a Phoenix Wright GIF here but Im not a Trusted User]

I accused Oregen because, and only because, you voted him. If you flip mafia, then It makes sense that he is too, because noob mafias often vote themselves and their teammates.

I think you are Mafia. The self vote is the only reason I scumread you in the first place.

/vote DesertStorm

[ZoruaLuhansk]

I thought we had something gabby ;-;

Desert/gabby scumteam

[gabby100]

hey melanora could we have the ISOs links and VC please?

I dislike how you conveniently change the topic when your name is brought to light as being potential scum. Your actions thus far have also conveniently been very polite.

/vote gabby100

polite is how i try to be so thank you also flake if i wanted to change the topic i wouldnt of said what i said earlier it would have been something like 'so hey guys how do you think all of this is going so far?' or 'anyone have any early scum reads they'd like to share?' see it as you will flake but i only wanted to see the vc and have the ISOs out for organising and properly sorting out my own notes.

nothing else nothing more

[AlexanderLiner]

Why are you random linching this only helps mafia.

[DesertStorm11]

Zorua... you just random-accused Oregon... that’s not exactly a Townie thing to do
And gabby is actually being helpful, and I’m trying to be

So... I don’t get your motives here

[I would put a Phoenix Wright GIF here but Im not a Trusted User]

I accused Oregen because, and only because, you voted him. If you flip mafia, then It makes sense that he is too, because noob mafias often vote themselves and their teammates.

So a day-one connection during the meme phase = instant scum? He hasn’t posted once. If I had done the same thing to you, would you scumread yourself? Would you find it appropriate for others to instantly accuse you?

I think you are Mafia. The self vote is the only reason I scumread you in the first place.

see below:

/vig polypies

Hmm
Interesting
You RNG’d that, if I’m correct? I could use your logic and accuse both you and Poly, solely because you chose him as your vote. However, yours is more of a disguised-random accusation, mine actually has a stated reason at the same time, which is because he “betrayed me”. I currently live in Oregon which is a state in the USA, and he used to live here, but he moved elsewhere. Hence the quote-unquote “betrayal”. If you think I’m lying just to have a defense, you can ask him and he’ll testify of it. Therefore, I believe you’re trying to base an accusation literally off of memephase, which I guess I can understand, but in this case, it’s not a good place to start.

I thought we had something gabby ;-;

Desert/gabby scumteam

I said that solely because of something that involves TFM65, which means I don’t think I can talk about it because it’s ongoing :l

/vote Zorua

You’re pushing way too hard on a weak wagon.

[ZoruaLuhansk]

Zorua... you just random-accused Oregon... that’s not exactly a Townie thing to do
And gabby is actually being helpful, and I’m trying to be

So... I don’t get your motives here

[I would put a Phoenix Wright GIF here but Im not a Trusted User]

I accused Oregen because, and only because, you voted him. If you flip mafia, then It makes sense that he is too, because noob mafias often vote themselves and their teammates.

So a day-one connection during the meme phase = instant scum? He hasn’t posted once. If I had done the same thing to you, would you scumread yourself? Would you find it appropriate for others to instantly accuse you?

I think you are Mafia. The self vote is the only reason I scumread you in the first place.

see below:

/vig polypies

Hmm
Interesting
You RNG’d that, if I’m correct? I could use your logic and accuse both you and Poly, solely because you chose him as your vote. However, yours is more of a disguised-random accusation, mine actually has a stated reason at the same time, which is because he “betrayed me”. I currently live in Oregon which is a state in the USA, and he used to live here, but he moved elsewhere. Hence the quote-unquote “betrayal”. If you think I’m lying just to have a defense, you can ask him and he’ll testify of it. Therefore, I believe you’re trying to base an accusation literally off of memephase, which I guess I can understand, but in this case, it’s not a good place to start.

I thought we had something gabby ;-;

Desert/gabby scumteam

I said that solely because of something that involves TFM65, which means I don’t think I can talk about it because it’s ongoing :l

/vote Zorua

You’re pushing way too hard on a weak wagon.

1) I'm not pushing Oregen. Im only going to push him if you flip mafia.

2) Yes, I would find it appropriate for others to accuse me, Its part of the game.

3) I didn't self vote after someone voted me, did I?

Oregen is the least of my priorities anyways. Im a lot more focused on you and gabby. If he acts associated with you, then my read solidifies.

However, yours is more of a disguised-random accusation, mine actually has a stated reason at the same time, which is because he “betrayed me”. I currently live in Oregon which is a state in the USA, and he used to live here, but he moved elsewhere. Hence the quote-unquote “betrayal”. If you think I’m lying just to have a defense, you can ask him and he’ll testify of it.

This seems kind of ew, too lazy to look into it rn

[fwogcarf]

alright I'm gonna 360 no scope vote

/vote polypies

[Crimson97]

Zorua... you just random-accused Oregon... that’s not exactly a Townie thing to do
And gabby is actually being helpful, and I’m trying to be

So... I don’t get your motives here

[I would put a Phoenix Wright GIF here but Im not a Trusted User]

I accused Oregen because, and only because, you voted him. If you flip mafia, then It makes sense that he is too, because noob mafias often vote themselves and their teammates.

I think you are Mafia. The self vote is the only reason I scumread you in the first place.

/vote DesertStorm

Why are you so locked on Desert being scum? You're trying to pass posts from the meme phase as actual evidence. Also, don't you have to unvote first for your next vote to be valid?

Why are you random linching this only helps mafia.

It's not random lynching if they give reasons for their votes, it's your job to evaluate those reasons and decide if it's a good lynch.

alright I'm gonna 360 no scope vote

/vote polypies

This IS random lynching or at least it looks like it. Never vote without reason, even if you're just sheeping because you don't have a better candidate to lynch say why you decided to follow that wagon.

[Crimson97]

I don't like Zorua and Exa trying to start wagons with no real reason to back them up, seems like they're either bussing or trying to cause a mislynch. Exa is an experienced player, i saw them turn around the game for mafia on NFM52 and i don't like that now they seem to arbitrarily attack a player for a really vague reason.

[ZoruaLuhansk]

Zorua... you just random-accused Oregon... that’s not exactly a Townie thing to do
And gabby is actually being helpful, and I’m trying to be

So... I don’t get your motives here

[I would put a Phoenix Wright GIF here but Im not a Trusted User]

I accused Oregen because, and only because, you voted him. If you flip mafia, then It makes sense that he is too, because noob mafias often vote themselves and their teammates.

I think you are Mafia. The self vote is the only reason I scumread you in the first place.

/vote DesertStorm

Why are you so locked on Desert being scum? You're trying to pass posts from the meme phase as actual evidence. Also, don't you have to unvote first for your next vote to be valid?

If I dont have a scumread I lose all my wim (see LoLFM)
Its quite possible hes not scum but we have no better leads right now

If that seems contradictory, I always say Im confident otherwise noone would ever follow me

/unvote
/vote DesertStorm

[Crimson97]

Zorua... you just random-accused Oregon... that’s not exactly a Townie thing to do
And gabby is actually being helpful, and I’m trying to be

So... I don’t get your motives here

[I would put a Phoenix Wright GIF here but Im not a Trusted User]

I accused Oregen because, and only because, you voted him. If you flip mafia, then It makes sense that he is too, because noob mafias often vote themselves and their teammates.

I think you are Mafia. The self vote is the only reason I scumread you in the first place.

/vote DesertStorm

Why are you so locked on Desert being scum? You're trying to pass posts from the meme phase as actual evidence. Also, don't you have to unvote first for your next vote to be valid?

If I dont have a scumread I lose all my wim (see LoLFM)
Its quite possible hes not scum but we have no better leads right now

If that seems contradictory, I always say Im confident otherwise noone would ever follow me

/unvote
/vote DesertStorm

Do you think all other players are less scummy than Desert? Why do you think he's the scummiest player here?

[Exacerbated]

/vote Flake
Let's wagon this.

What? I fail to see how my posts were weak in the slightest. I made it blatant that I agreed with the things you were saying, and highlighted a potential weakness in your analysis. In my experience (in Town of Salem anyway), players that play more boldly and defensively are less likely to be scum, especially in the earlier stages of the game. As such, I have reason believe both you and Desert to be Town at current. I've been busy lately so haven't been able to make posts with in-depth analysis as of yet, if that's so wrong..? I'll look up information on players from past games very soon, and will certainly bring up discussion with those players that I find to be suspect based on comparison between said information and current information.

well flake playing FM you'll be quick to see how different both are from each other

It's not so much comparison between the games, it's more so to do with human nature. Town is more likely to feel at risk in being bold as they can push the blame on other players if they are incorrectly lynched. Scum tends to not think this way as much - they don't make bold plays because they see no reason to make themselves stand out. Even if, mentally, a player knows this, subconsciously they still follow this guideline to an extent.

12. Exacerbated
I don’t like his vote on Flake. He said Flake’s posts were weak, even tho I personally don’t see them as such. Flake is just trying to move the discussion forward, and Exac decides to vote Flake instead of trying to push someone more inactive. slight scum

I wouldn't say calling out someone and voting them for lack of discussion is necessarily a bad thing, though. But I agree, my previous posts were hardly weak.

Are you talking about the survey? Because that's not really a bold play.

Yes, I am. In my opinion it is bold because it was obviously going to cause some controversy, as it has, and I'm sure Desert them self was well aware of this. We can agree to disagree, though.

That's not a good argument for your posts being strong, anybody can agree on a plan and point out mistakes.This way you're not creating your own content, you're using other's to make yours and that's exactly what scum would do to look active and like they contribute to town. Also, that's a weak reason to town read Exa and Desert considering mafia's job is to look like town. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt since you say you'll post a more in depth analysis.

I would hardly saying evaluating someone else's analysis is a bad thing for Town in the slightest. That is how discussion moves forward, and how progress is made. If there was no evaluation there would be absolutely no dispute over points made. I obviously intend to create my own content as well, as I stated. I am not saying that it is very likely that either of Exa or Desert are Town, I am saying that, as of the start of the game, I believe their posts to be slightly more Town-sided than Scum-sided - that is not to say my opinion won't change though, since it is too early in the game to reliably decide.

Genuine response. This is a solid rebound from Flake. I don't see a newer scum player reacting like this.

[Exacerbated]

/unvote

[melanora]

polypies has requested replacement.

[gabby100]

polypies has requested replacement.

welp i wonder who we will get this time...

[Exacerbated]

8. ZoruaLuhansk
At first was being active and helpful, but with her post where she said her scumteam POV (Myself, gabby, Oregon) really pings me. For one, it includes myself and gabby, who are two of the more active players currently in the game, and we’re trying to move discussions forward. The other, more important part, is that she accused Oregon specifically, who has said nothing. That pings me for its own reason. Why specifically Oregon? Why not SeasonToAttack, who has also said nothing? What about Alexander who is nearly in the same boat? Basing your scumteam solely off of two people that are actually being helpful, then one who has said nothing is two entirely different directions that are bound to be wrong. scum lean

Activity is NAI

Gabby hasn't even taken any real stances yet

Also, there's some major differences between her scum game and this game. Namely, the blunt tone, which is in great supply this game, and a major feature of most of her town games (take a look at 13I and 14B for example, the tone is similar.), as opposed to the wishy washy tone and crippling self-awareness in her game as Witch. Zorua is playing within her town range in this game. If she is scum, then this is a major improvement from 14D.

12. Exacerbated
I don’t like his vote on Flake. He said Flake’s posts were weak, even tho I personally don’t see them as such. Flake is just trying to move the discussion forward, and Exac decides to vote Flake instead of trying to push someone more inactive. slight scum

If you take a look at the interaction in context, at the time, Flake only had 3 posts, so he would have, at the time, qualified as "someone more inactive." This read is extremely lazy.

[Exacerbated]

have fun guys, first ever fm game here

I agree that Desert's post did seem slightly scum motivated, and a lot of what Exacerbated is saying is correct, but at the same time I can't see a reason scum would ever make such a bold play, especially in the early game where they will be heavily suspected in later parts of the game as a result. I'm personally neutral for the reasons stated. I'm unsure as to whether a D1 lynch is optimal for Town or not given I have little knowledge of prior games, so can someone explain this to me please? Thanks.

These posts from Flake are pretty damn weak.

/vote Flake

Let's wagon this.

You need like more reasoning for your votes. That's also why I voted you.

I don't since I'm awesome.

That's not a good argument for your posts being strong, anybody can agree on a plan and point out mistakes.This way you're not creating your own content, you're using other's to make yours and that's exactly what scum would do to look active and like they contribute to town. Also, that's a weak reason to town read Exa and Desert considering mafia's job is to look like town. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt since you say you'll post a more in depth analysis.

I would hardly saying evaluating someone else's analysis is a bad thing for Town in the slightest. That is how discussion moves forward, and how progress is made. If there was no evaluation there would be absolutely no dispute over points made. I obviously intend to create my own content as well, as I stated. I am not saying that it is very likely that either of Exa or Desert are Town, I am saying that, as of the start of the game, I believe their posts to be slightly more Town-sided than Scum-sided - that is not to say my opinion won't change though, since it is too early in the game to reliably decide.

Of course it's not bad, it's what i'm doing with your posts right now and what will probably lead us to mafia. What i'm saying is that analysing posts is something really easy to pass as "townie posts". In the post were you analyze Exa you agree to what they say and then point out that the survey was a bold move, but i don't think it's that bold to begin with. Surveys seem to be common in NFM and if the questions seem town oriented it could be a way to get some easy towncred early on. Also there's the fact that mafia basically wins by making though descisions, making sacrifices when needed and taking risks, a survey to get infor from town hardly seems like the most risky thing they could do. For all this i agree with Exa that that post in particular was weak.

With that said, i don't think your posts are terribly scummy and it's a bit worrying to me that Exa chose you over someone with weaker posts like cupcake or someone who had more content in their ISOs. At that point you only had 3 posts, one where you said hello, the post where you talked about Exa and another one saying thank you. That's not nearly enough to determine the overall quality of your posts, Seems to me like they could be pushing for a mislynch and chose what they thoght would be an easy target.

I would like Exa to explain why they think Flake's posts are so terribly weak that they felt the need to vote them.

I don't like Zorua and Exa trying to start wagons with no real reason to back them up, seems like they're either bussing or trying to cause a mislynch. Exa is an experienced player, i saw them turn around the game for mafia on NFM52 and i don't like that now they seem to arbitrarily attack a player for a really vague reason.

What initially pinged me was not what Flake said, but rather the tone and manner in which he said it. Keep in mind that at the time, I was working with a sample size of n = 3 posts, so I just posted my gut reaction to Flake's progression.

For instance:

have fun guys, first ever fm game here

This entrance is a little awkward and nervous. It's not enough to go on by itself, but newer scum players tend to have entrances more on the awkward side because they are afraid of people jumping on them. Entrances are also one of the key focal points I look at because that's where EVERYONE has their guard down, including scum, and where scum might slip up a little bit because of incomplete information.

I agree that Desert's post did seem slightly scum motivated, and a lot of what Exacerbated is saying is correct, but at the same time I can't see a reason scum would ever make such a bold play, especially in the early game where they will be heavily suspected in later parts of the game as a result. I'm personally neutral for the reasons stated. I'm unsure as to whether a D1 lynch is optimal for Town or not given I have little knowledge of prior games, so can someone explain this to me please? Thanks.

This pinged me initially because of the wishy-washy tone. Scum tend to shy away from early commitment so that they don't tie themselves in a knot later.

Because of these posts being the only material I had to work with, my initial impression was that Flake were wolfy.

However, as I have stated, I have reevaluated Flake in light of his response, which I felt was genuine, so my macro-read on him is overall Town right now.

Also, I favor a very proactive approach to scumhunting. I don't wait for information; I create it with my own bare hands by applying heavy pressure on others.

[Exacerbated]

/vote gabby100

She's here, but it feels like she's posting for the sake of posting and appearing like she's doing something.

[fwogcarf]

/unvote

[Exacerbated]

Anyone who isn't voting someone right now is making it easier for scum to hide.

Also by the end of today or start of tomorrow we should consolidate wagons. Too many people voting different people.

[ZoruaLuhansk]

/unvote
/vote gabby
for consolidation

[Exacerbated]

/unvote

Help me sort you, please