[Newcomer FM] NFM 2 | Mafia Wins! (Insert Salt here)

[melanora]

Day One Timer

Rolelist:
Spoiler: Town Investigative
Town Protective
Town Killing
Random Town
Random Town
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen

Mafioso OR Janitor OR Consigliere
Consigliere OR Framer OR Consort
Blackmailer OR Disguiser OR Mafioso

Witch

Player Post List:
Spoiler: MOD POSTS
SirCakez
James2
HerobrineFan
Retterime
CJBlack44
HereToPlay
MamiT0m0e
Lokiben
MindSlayer
Metrion
Swordsworth
Alzar
melanora

[MamiT0m0e]

Mindslayer, CJ, Metrion, Swordsworth it is nice to see you again...


Any Way everyone how is life? (Mine is good)

Just to get this out of the way before anyone makes the mistake.... I am a girl!

@CJ I hope your wish as been granted this time.

A question to everyone playing: who do you believe is the priority lynch target and why?

I'm sorry, I don't really understand the question... Do you mean between the Witch and the Mafia?

Yes. But also more in depth than that. In some games, you will have four mafia members, a SK, and a NK. It's always interesting to know who thinks what is the most important to find.

Eigher way if we find one they cant win with town like an exe or jester could... So lets look at the advantages of lynching a witch over the mafia.
The Witch could mess with our Power Roles (roles that are not citizens) and seriously screw us over... but same thing could happen with a mafia consort if they have one... IMO we should be focused on hunting Mafia but if no leads on a mafia show up and we have a lead on a witch then we should lynch that lead over a no lynch...

@SirCakez: Alignment-wise, the Mafia would be the best to lynch. The Witch would be second on my list, being harder to find by nature of being Neutral, and also running the risk of crashing into scum. Then you have to consider the fact that half the Town roles are Citizens, which means a third of the time, the Witch probably wouldn't accomplish anything at all.

Role-wise, I'd put Consort/Janitor/Mafioso as the highest lynching priority, Framer/Disguiser/Blackmailer at a moderate priority, and Consigliere/Witch as the lowest current threat.

Consort/Janitor/Mafioso - Consort has a high risk of disrupting night actions on the night they occur, which is troublesome for power roles. Janitor can mess with day results, as Janitor can hide a role everyone but the Mafia.
Framer/Disguiser/Blackmailer - Deception roles are troubling considering how Investigative results work, and if I'm reading the rolecards right, Spy messages appear the same as Blackmailer messages.
Consigliere/Witch - Consigliere's results can only be acted on by the next night, so there would be a delay in it's effectiveness. Witch because it's inconvenient to find and has a decent chance of messing with scum's results.

@Alizar why is mafioso up there as a high priority...?

[Alzar]

If we're using Mafia Tactical (which I assume we are), the Mafioso ensures that one Mafia member's night action cannot be roleblocked.


Hang on, going to check with Obi just in case.

[melanora]

A question to every own playing: who do you believe is the priority lynch target and why?

Well, I would say that the Mafia are the priority lynch targets, unless the witch finds (and controls) a vig or a protective role, THEN the witch is the priority lynch target.

Then again, I'm new and probably not talking much sense

No, that makes perfect sense. There's nothing more terrifying than a witch finding a Killer on N1. We've seen it here before on the boards, the witch found the Mafia Killer N1, and controlled the Mafia kills the rest of the game. (or was it the SK? It was the BSG game I think?)

Point is, the witch can either be an annoyance, or, they can cause serious destruction. Depends on who they find.

[Alzar]

Neutrals are, as a general rule, harder to find than Mafia. They don't have associative tells tying themselves to any other scum players, so the only way to find them is through their own behaviour throughout the day, or if an Investigator finds them. Entire games have been lost by Town because they started tunneling the Neutrals.

[CJBlack44]

A question to everyone playing: who do you believe is the priority lynch target and why?

Yes. But also more in depth than that. In some games, you will have four mafia members, a SK, and a NK. It's always interesting to know who thinks what is the most important to find.[/quote]

Well, ok then...I really don't know what to say. If this were my first game, I'd have definitely said the Mafia, since they seem more dangerous than the Witch - the Witch can't kill a townie every night. However, I have played a game with a Witch before, and I can tell you that the Witch is way more dangerous than they seem. Just think that if we have a Vigilante and the Witch finds said Vigilante, we lose instantly. Fortunately, half of the town roles are Cits, so if we're lucky, the Witch will have no impact most of the time.

So I think this is a very important thing to say: the Vigilante should never EVER reveal in this game, for no reason whatsoever - at the very least, until the Witch is dead.

First of all just a heads-up to you guys: the Witch is immune against the first attack they receive, it says so on the rolecard. Speaking of which, make sure you check ALL the rolecards here - http://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=25213. Some things don't work the same way they work in ToS.

This attribute makes it easy for Mafia to find the Witch - and if there are no kills during a night, I think we should assume the worst, which is that the Mafia found the Witch.

I honestly don't know who should be a priority, since neither lynch will stop the kills. It also depends on the Mafia rolelist, some roles are far worse than others (for example I'd rather lynch a Janitor or a Consort than the Witch) but basically, we should lynch all scum. There are no jesters in this game so if someone acts scummy, we can safely lynch them without fearing a haunt. It might be easier to find the Witch than the Mafia, but we shouldn't be fixated on finding one or the other, we should simply look out for anyone who acts scummy. Which reminds me - please, PLEASE don't act scummy if you're town. Do your best to contribute and find scum. Remember that acting scummy as town hurts your team enormously.

PS: spent like 5 minutes fixing the BB code *fail*

[melanora]

Neutrals are, as a general rule, harder to find than Mafia. They don't have associative tells tying themselves to any other scum players, so the only way to find them is through their own behaviour throughout the day, or if an Investigator finds them. Entire games have been lost by Town because they started tunneling the Neutrals.

And another thing to note - a lot of Neutrals win with anyone OR by themselves... therefore, they can do as they choose, scum hunting or not. It's easy to appear town when Neutral. That stated, a witch only wins with Mafia, and they don't know who the Mafia team is. That's the only real break you get with a witch.

ps: bbcode is wonderful but also terrible and i understand why you can't edit your posts but also the fact that we can't edit our posts when there is a bbcode fail is so vexing

[CJBlack44]

A question to everyone playing: who do you believe is the priority lynch target and why?

Well, ok then...I really don't know what to say. If this were my first game, I'd have definitely said the Mafia, since they seem more dangerous than the Witch - the Witch can't kill a townie every night. However, I have played a game with a Witch before, and I can tell you that the Witch is way more dangerous than they seem. Just think that if we have a Vigilante and the Witch finds said Vigilante, we lose instantly. Fortunately, half of the town roles are Cits, so if we're lucky, the Witch will have no impact most of the time.

So I think this is a very important thing to say: the Vigilante should never EVER reveal in this game, for no reason whatsoever - at the very least, until the Witch is dead.

First of all just a heads-up to you guys: the Witch is immune against the first attack they receive, it says so on the rolecard. Speaking of which, make sure you check ALL the rolecards here - http://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=25213. Some things don't work the same way they work in ToS.

This attribute makes it easy for Mafia to find the Witch - and if there are no kills during a night, I think we should assume the worst, which is that the Mafia found the Witch.

I honestly don't know who should be a priority, since neither lynch will stop the kills. It also depends on the Mafia rolelist, some roles are far worse than others (for example I'd rather lynch a Janitor or a Consort than the Witch) but basically, we should lynch all scum. There are no jesters in this game so if someone acts scummy, we can safely lynch them without fearing a haunt. It might be easier to find the Witch than the Mafia, but we shouldn't be fixated on finding one or the other, we should simply look out for anyone who acts scummy. Which reminds me - please, PLEASE don't act scummy if you're town. Do your best to contribute and find scum. Remember that acting scummy as town hurts your team enormously.

PS: spent like 5 minutes fixing the BB code *fail*

AHAHAHA spent 5 minutes fixing the BB and I still failed...fixed now...I hate phone posting >.<

[Alzar]

Alright, got a response from Obi. Mafioso doesn't work like how I thought it worked, apparently.

It can copy a Mafia member's night action every night, meaning there could be two roleblocks if it copied a Consort. or two frames if it copied a Framer. It's definitely a dangerous role to keep in the game.

[ObiWan]

Mafia tactical is in play.

Any member of the Mafia may sacrifice their night action in order to make the factional kill.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mafiosos can "Shadow" on of their mafia members each night. But they may only Shadow a mafia member once each per game.
Example of Mafioso: Mafioso chooses to "Shadow" a framer on their team.
They may only "Shadow" a different mafia member each night.
So if they Shadow a framer Night 1, they may not shadow the framer again for the rest of the game.
The Framer could also use their ability, even when being shadowed.

Mafioso would potentially be a second framer for that night.

But, if the Mafioso Shadows - they may not perform the kill.

[HereToPlay]

A question to everyone playing: who do you believe is the priority lynch target and why?

Well, ok then...I really don't know what to say. If this were my first game, I'd have definitely said the Mafia, since they seem more dangerous than the Witch - the Witch can't kill a townie every night. However, I have played a game with a Witch before, and I can tell you that the Witch is way more dangerous than they seem. Just think that if we have a Vigilante and the Witch finds said Vigilante, we lose instantly. Fortunately, half of the town roles are Cits, so if we're lucky, the Witch will have no impact most of the time.

So I think this is a very important thing to say: the Vigilante should never EVER reveal in this game, for no reason whatsoever - at the very least, until the Witch is dead.

First of all just a heads-up to you guys: the Witch is immune against the first attack they receive, it says so on the rolecard. Speaking of which, make sure you check ALL the rolecards here - http://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=25213. Some things don't work the same way they work in ToS.

This attribute makes it easy for Mafia to find the Witch - and if there are no kills during a night, I think we should assume the worst, which is that the Mafia found the Witch.

I honestly don't know who should be a priority, since neither lynch will stop the kills. It also depends on the Mafia rolelist, some roles are far worse than others (for example I'd rather lynch a Janitor or a Consort than the Witch) but basically, we should lynch all scum. There are no jesters in this game so if someone acts scummy, we can safely lynch them without fearing a haunt. It might be easier to find the Witch than the Mafia, but we shouldn't be fixated on finding one or the other, we should simply look out for anyone who acts scummy. Which reminds me - please, PLEASE don't act scummy if you're town. Do your best to contribute and find scum. Remember that acting scummy as town hurts your team enormously.

PS: spent like 5 minutes fixing the BB code *fail*

AHAHAHA spent 5 minutes fixing the BB and I still failed...fixed now...I hate phone posting >.<

You are not alone there, good sir

[melanora]

Just a note about our mafia here in general - ALWAYS check the role cards, even if you think you know the role, because they're always subject to change from game to game. That's why Alzar wanted to check something.

[CJBlack44]

I also wanted to add that, in my opinion, hardclaims (and even softclaims) should be avoided at all costs in this game (at the very least, until the Witch dies). Don't do it unless you have a very strong reason to, and if you plan to do it, take into account the fact that you might be turning yourself into the Witch's tool and always weigh the good against the bad when revealing.

[Alzar]

Alright, so everyone should take another look at the rolelist. It's an 8v3v1 list at the moment. That means that we have some breathing space and can afford a single mislynch on D2, if I'm doing my math right.

brb punching myself in the face

I somehow forgot a Citizen. It's a 9v3v1. This means that (assuming no Town Protectives or Killings succeed) if we mislynched Day 2, we would be in a 6v3v1 on Day 3. If we mislynched again, it'd be a 5v3v1. That means, in a worst case scenario, we could mislynch twice and be in LYLO.

[Swordsworth]

I'd like to preemptively ask everyone to think outside the box from here on out to always account for results being tampered with.

@Cakez Mafia has priority, unless we can afford time lynches.

[Alzar]

Swordsworth, there isn't a Prankster in play. Unless you're talking about investigative results with a Witch and a possible Mafia Deception in play.

[Swordsworth]

The witch tampers with targeting and results. Some people may not admit to being witched. It's all on the table as possibilities go.

[MamiT0m0e]

A question to every own playing: who do you believe is the priority lynch target and why?

Well, I would say that the Mafia are the priority lynch targets, unless the witch finds (and controls) a vig or a protective role, THEN the witch is the priority lynch target.

Then again, I'm new and probably not talking much sense

No, that makes perfect sense. There's nothing more terrifying than a witch finding a Killer on N1. We've seen it here before on the boards, the witch found the Mafia Killer N1, and controlled the Mafia kills the rest of the game. (or was it the SK? It was the BSG game I think?)

Point is, the witch can either be an annoyance, or, they can cause serious destruction. Depends on who they find.

And if witch finds the mafia killer night one and they have a blackmailer... well that could be very deadly indeed with mafia and witch chatting through those untraceable messages... in that case I believe that we should hunt down the witch or the blackmailer and cut off the communication before too much damage is done.

Now in your opinion what would be the worst case scenario of mafia roles?

IMO it would be Consigliere, Consort, Blackmailer.

Here is why: Consigliere finds witch and town killing (especially if that is a Vig)... Blackmailer gets witch on their side and gives witch the information and provides an untraceable link between mafia and witch... and consort to completely mess up town powers.

Post edit #1:
Spoiler:

I also wanted to add that, in my opinion, hardclaims (and even softclaims) should be avoided at all costs in this game (at the very least, until the Witch dies). Don't do it unless you have a very strong reason to, and if you plan to do it, take into account the fact that you might be turning yourself into the Witch's tool and always weigh the good against the bad when revealing.

Yah in general they should be unless you have a very good reason to like if you have a mafia member in your sights...

Also quick tip that I have learned from experience ... could save a town members life! Don't carelessly callout someone who you think is soft claiming, at least without good reason. I did this in NFM 1 (early in day 2 if you are wondering) and it almost cost us a very valuable town member! This might be very obvious to most people but i still feel it needs to be said.

Post edit #2:
Spoiler:

Alright, so everyone should take another look at the rolelist. It's an 8v3v1 list at the moment. That means that we have some breathing space and can afford a single mislynch on D2, if I'm doing my math right.

brb punching myself in the face

I somehow forgot a Citizen. It's a 9v3v1. This means that (assuming no Town Protectives or Killings succeed) if we mislynched Day 2, we would be in a 6v3v1 on Day 3. If we mislynched again, it'd be a 5v3v1. That means, in a worst case scenario, we could mislynch twice and be in LYLO.

Actually if we myslinch a 2nd time (assuming no town protectives succeed) we would be at 4v3v1, and then town has already lost.
We only get one mislynch that is all.

Also before I forget as it is day one...
/vote Rickdaily12

[melanora]

/vote Rickdaily12

HEY NO VOTING FOR ME DAY ONE. I FORBID IT.

[Alzar]

...

... Okay, I am really out of it today. Apparently I can't count (which is probably why I had to fix my chemistry lab like 8 times, lmao).

So that means we have 1 mislynch before MYLO.

[Mindslayer]

A question to every own playing: who do you believe is the priority lynch target and why?

Janitor because then the mafia can easily claim a role without counterclaims. Then consort due to the importance of power roles.

I really hope there isn't a consort.

[Alzar]

Also, since no one's said it yet and I want to snipe Metrion:

PROTECT ME FOR A FREE WIN~

[CJBlack44]

Also, since no one's said it yet and I want to snipe Metrion:

PROTECT ME FOR A FREE WIN~

^ Confirmed scum

[Alzar]

Oh no, how did you know I was the Arsonist D:

CJBlack44 confirmed haxxxxxxx

[Swordsworth]

Alzar, you didn't do it right.

PROTECT ME FOR A FREE WIN~