FM 7C | Hydra | The Titanic [Mafia + Witch Win]

[Deleter]

Good night, sleep tight. First vote tomorrow is on sheepluv, no excuses, unless he dies, in which case it's on ronitgiri. If they both die I'm voting dotakami.

Remember to protect me. I can't emphasize this enough.

[Exacerbated]

http://www.kongregate.com/forums/7099-f ... ins?page=1

http://www.kongregate.com/forums/7099-f ... uff?page=1

Here are some games that you might want to look at. (Deleter is Helltank)

Also, he made this: http://www.kongregate.com/forums/7099-f ... to-gambits

[datdownie]

I do hope Deleter does survive first night. Or else chaos unfolds...

But ah, who am I kidding, 8 minutes left? Sure, I can hang out and all... Ninja and I will do something...

[Deleter]

That guide to gambits was the worst thing ever written. It only serves to remind me of my many failures. You should only follow it if you are a jester.

[Deleter]

Note: The Llama Mafia thing was me intentionally trying to get lynched to trigger my on-death ability.

[Arckas]

Remember to protect me. I can't emphasize this enough.

You actually can, but that neither here nor there.

Either way, I'll take the guess your probably going to survive the night. Better have good reason for it hopefully.

[deferentsheep]

gg

[alouvre]

Completely forgot that the deadline was about to hit when I wrote my previous post, but I suppose it doesn't matter too much.

Thanks for posting the links, Exacerbated.

I probably won't go to sleep after the day ends, but I'll say good night anyway. Sleep well everybody.

[Deleter]

To this day I can't believe that I wrote that jester claiming power roles and massclaiming are gambits in my "guide".

[ValeforRaine]

Having found the body during the day, the residents of this strange Salem took to accusing one another, looking for those at fault. They had feared those they thought were gone, the Mafia, would one day return and make a target out of one of their own. For it to have been the stranger came as no surprise (the lone man made for an easier target, surely) and a bit of a relief, as the townsfolk knew they'd have time to help find the killers.

The deliberated all day, or at least for the part not dedicated to erecting a gallows, twin posts raised with a noose each hanging down. In this society, it was true that partners did most everything together; if one was guilty, so was the other. They made plans and argued, some ready to lay the blame while others stood on the sidelines, watching and waiting. It would be a tough fight, for sure, but the town could hope that they would eradicate this threat.

As the sun set, the town member returned to their homes, some looking back in hopes of catching suspicious activity. It was futile, of course. No killer would be that dumb, but it felt safe and in their control, unlike the events of the night ahead, which could result in the deaths of two of their own. Hopefully nothing too sinister would happen...

Night 1 Begins! 48 hours remain.
Night 1 will end on July 3rd at 3:00 AM EDT (UTC -4)

The Mafia chat is now open.
You may now send in your Night Actions.

[ValeforRaine]

The residents emerged from their houses earlier in the morning, worried about what they might find. They knew the threat was back, but that threat was only a legend... and legend come to life, judging by the pair lying on the ground.

Arckas and dragonfly19981 died last night! They were killed by Serial Killers!

No last will could be found, but there was a bloody note by the body:

ey reds dusnt the colur green like make u puke? lets lobby da guvmint to exturminet the gren from dis world. I made a petishun on change.org

Their role was Lookout!


It looked like there were multiple threats to the town members and they quickly set themselves to finding the killers before they joined this first pair in the ground.

Day 2 Begins! 120 hours remain.
Day 2 will end on July 8th at 3:15 AM EDT (UTC -4) or when a majority vote is reached.

[Akame]

We slept peacefully

[Deleter]

deferentsheep and birdyluv0, any defense?

I want LeScraf to post before I vote him for being suspiciously inactive when I know for a fact he's posting in other forums.

We slept peacefully last night.

[deferentsheep]

Well, I was roleblocked last night. I've also prepared some stuff to post, but I'll probably leave that until after people have posted what happened to them during the night to prevent clutter.

[deferentsheep]

Here's my defense. I'm currently unsure if I should reveal my role, I will do so if you ask for it.

I haven't played Forum Mafia in any form before. I think my first post reflected this: it appeared somewhat out of place and perhaps doesn't reflect the way that Town members are usually expected to speak.

It's difficult for me to defend myself from people who scumread me when I have genuinely very little clue as to what scumreading is and how it works. I have no idea how to "read" someone because I've never played Forum Mafia before. In my mind, I had always expected it to be something more tangible; analysing the things people said rather than how they said them. I wanted to sound as genuine as possible by typing what I saw and felt, but I didn't convey this well. My first post was an attempt to get a grasp of how I should've been playing, and to perhaps recieve feedback on what I'm actually supposed to be doing. It was an incoherent, stream-of-consciousness first impression of the game. In that process perhaps I said certain things that went against commonly established gameplay styles and hence appeared scummy and made me look as if I was trying to derail the Town. For example:

It feels a bit premature to be writing scum lists now because there is NOTHING to discuss other than the discussion that has preceded this point

This I believe stemmed from my fundamental misunderstanding of what scumreading actually was.

And, I don't think the anecdote was properly explained, I'll be more explicit:

1. Deleter could be scum or Jester trying to bluff a Power role to control the Town
2. a was rebuffed by the fact that doing such a thing would be suicidally dangerous, drawing excessive attention to himself.
3. Argument b actually makes this strategy more viable, since he can use it in his defense
4. Argument c goes on to make the strategy less viable
5. Argument d makes this strategy more viable... and so on

In the same way that claiming Mafia and claiming not to understand how to play seems very stupid but was actually a good strategy.
Therefore: speculation is a waste of time. (Or, "Hence my distrust of deep motivational analysis at this early stage")

I'll say that the criticism I received was accurate and justified, I did sound scummy. The main reason for I think was the way that I detracted from the focus of the Town, and the way that I contributed little in terms of scumreads.

I want to challenge this, however:

My strongest scumread is deferentsheep/birdyluv0: their only posts seem to be full of excuse making and irrelevant commentary. I get bad vibes from this post. Forgive me if I am misunderstanding your writing, but I believe people have a legitimate concern when others try to point out Power Roles in the thread. Power Roles work more effectively when Scum are uncertain about who the Power roles are targetting. There is literally zero benefit for Town to hunt power roles because power roles need to stay safe and only reveal when it provides a clear benefit to Town. Town need to focus their mental efforts and energy on hunting scum. I'd also like to see more opinions on other players.

With "this post" being:

This is how I am seeing arckas and Deleter based on this conversation
Deleter: I'm important protect me
Arckas: what exactly are you?
Deleter: can't say, too important

Deleter, if you are town I think you are one of two things
A) you are a protective who is trying to get the mafia off their backs while they can protect the person they think is most likely to be attacked
B) You are a citizen trying to pull some sort of insane gambit to protect the power roles

Why would you say this out loud you are straight up pointing it out to the scum.

It's not as if the Town are the only people who could speculate this. Honestly this is a ridiculous sentiment.

I oppose Exacerbated's criticism. The Mafia have 3 members which can all collude, while each Town member is on their own. The Mafia can and will hunt Power roles. Let's say what Flaming pointed out was something that 50% of people would realise on their own. The Mafia have a 87.5% chance of realising this, given that if one of them considers it they will discuss it with the others. Meanwhile, another Town member (for example a Lookout who decides not to watch Deleter because assumes he will be protected anyway) has a 50% chance of not realising this and making some kind of mistake because of it. Pointing this out doesn't really help the Mafia at all, because they're probably going to consider this anyway. It does help the Town, perhaps swaying an undecided Lookout to watch Deleter when he otherwise wouldn't have, or maybe a Jailor decides to protect him later in the game. Obviously the Town considering this isn't going to benefit them as much as it would benefit the Mafia, but the Mafia are probably going to consider it anyway. Hence me disagreeing with Jacob's accusation, which I think (notwithstanding my lack of experience) is baseless.

My thoughts on jacobm1122:
Spoiler: He seems to be giving unpopular and perhaps invalid opinions such as:

Im trying to imply that Im pretty sure he's scum. But that went over your head i guess

And all of your posts feel to me like a neutral Killing, maybe godfather trying to mislead the town.

These opinions seem like skeptical speculation, I feel like he's being too concrete (saying x is true rather than x could be true). I'm hesitant to accuse him of being scum at this stage, however.

My thoughts on Deleter:
Spoiler: His confidence seems indicative of that he's either going to sweep us as Mafia in a few days or be a strong asset to Town. There were some things that I thought were worrying about what he said, such as:

Arckas: No. I won't. I believe it benefits town more for me to remain hidden.]

So question-

Do you have a good reason and can argue every point that would come with a good reason why you wouldn't claim?

Yes, I have a good reason for not claiming and I will defend it to the death.

This seems to be a bluff, because literally defending his reason to the death would be moronic and detriment Town. It feels like a pretty poor counter to Arckas's argument, which is a primary concern for me. I've sure Deleter has the capacity to offload criticism from himself while simultaneously refusing to reveal his role, and Town's ability to question his authority will only diminish as time passes.

Arckas, if you want to know my role so badly then call for investigates. Same with Flaming.

I still should be protected, and I'm still a power role who's going to hard carry the town.

Invenio: Swordsworth has some RL activity issues so I'm taking over for him for today. He should be able to step up and provide legit posts by D2.

I stand against asking Investigators to waste a night checking you when you're supposedly a Town role anyway. If you're Town, and especially if you're a PROVABLE Town, I don't see why you would support this when the Investigative roles could be finding others.

What I meant was that I told Arckas I would not be saying my role, I have good reasons, and that if he really has to find out he can always ask for an investigator.

I wouldn't recommend that the actual investigator do this, though. Ive already posted my list of suggested night actions.

So first Deleter says that Arckas should ask for an Investigator if he wants to find out him role. Then he says that he doesn't actually recommend an Investigator doing this, essentially implying that he doesn't recommend Arckas knowing his role. This seems like another attempt to weasel his way out of giving a role at an early stage, and I can't tell whether or not this benefits Town.

In conclusion, while his attempts to avoid giving his role appear slightly scummy, it's probably for the greater good of the Town.

I've probably said the most about Deleter because I felt most of the other players' posts were uniform and mundane in comparison.

My thoughts on both Arckas and Alzar:
Spoiler: Both of these players seem both consistent and critical of what others are saying, which makes me fairly sure that they're Town. Their activity levels also inspire confidence.

I personally find those who haven't been saying much far more suspicious than those who have, regardless of the content of the messages that have been said. I'd suggest that more of the relatively silent people try to involve themselves in the discussion if that is possible.

The differences in skill level between players seem to really be the most important thing here. If a more experienced player could call out another player as scummy for showing tell x, you would expect the same experienced player to not betray tell x when they are scum. Meanwhile, a less experienced player shows tell x due to lack of skill independent of their alignment, due to misunderstanding of why x is bad. If the less experienced player was scum, they'd probably either show x anyway or show a different tell entirely. In other forums I'm fairly sure that players of similar skill level play together, and I think scumreading is more valid there because the behavior of players of a similar skill level will be similar, and subtle things actually mean something. But here, I'm afraid that this could lead to a mislynch.

[Exacerbated]

Slept Peacefully.

Question to TheNinja476: Why no code on day 1? Unless I missed it?

[LeScraf]

deferentsheep and birdyluv0, any defense?

I want LeScraf to post before I vote him for being suspiciously inactive when I know for a fact he's posting in other forums.

We slept peacefully last night.

It is 2:30 AM for me. Will post more tomorrow. Awful day.

[Deleter]

So, deferent.

You come under heavy suspicion from multiple players day one. You get roleblocked and there are no mafia kills. And your defense is a long post that basically amounts to "I was suspected because I am new and said the wrong thing by accident"(ie. scumslipped), completely failing to address the fact that you claimed roleblocked and there were no mafia kills and you know this.

I'm going to give you one more post to explain why we shouldn't have you on permanent lockdown by the Escort as confirmed Godfather.

[Achro]

Slept Peacefully.

Question to TheNinja476: Why no code on day 1? Unless I missed it?

If they haven't already posted their code:
Ninja, you've had 24 hours to post your code.
With all the conversation going on yesterday, there's little chance of you missing out on something like that.

[Veeena]

We slept peacefully last night.

[Deleter]

I like how deferent's post sneakily accuses me and then writes "but it's probably for the greater good of the town" so I won't get offended and jump on him like I threatened to do yesterday. Or am I reading too much into it?

[Exacerbated]

Deferentsheep's post seems unnatural and way too rehearsed and premeditated. Not even a few minutes into day 2 and he already has a massive essay.

[Deleter]

Deferentsheep's post seems unnatural and way too rehearsed and premeditated. Not even a few minutes into day 2 and he already has a massive essay.

What are the odds he went into mafia chat, posted "guys, I'm in trouble. Deleter's onto me" and they helped him draft that long, convincing looking essay, on notepad just waiting to be copypasted the moment the thread opened?

[Exacerbated]

I think that theory is plausible.

It seems like a massive overreaction to a simple accusation.

[Achro]

What happened at night:

Spoiler: Munch + Jacob -

M4x + Melanora - Slept peacefully.

Met + Leyva -

Swordsworth + Deleter - Slept peacefully.

Alzar + Remnant -

Stella + Dizzy -

Marco + Salense -

Alouvre + Invenio -

Akame + Scraf - Slept Peacefully.

Ronit + Giri -

Deferent + Birdy - Role Blocked.

Ninja + Downie -

Achro + Exacerbated - Slept Peacefully.

Dota + Flaming -

Add on to the list accordingly, please.

Also: Notice that Deferent's huge essay is posted one minute after his check in.