VFM70 | Manatees (pt. 2) | Game Over

[SparkingJay]

/vote Lemon

[Crimson97]

IF I SCREAM LOUD IN THE THREAD MAYBE THEY'LL COME AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

[UzayAltay]

I haven't read anything from the past couple of hours and I'm in the middle of exercising so I won't be around for another hour or two, but I just thought of a few quick qs to Uzay,

@Uzay:
If I was scum, who would be my scumbuddies?
And if I was scum, what motivation would I have to kill dota?

1) I think your buddies are Crimson and lemon.
Like I didnt completely PoEd other possibilities off, but that's where my fingers are on So far.
2) I Dont exactly know. But Why You assumed You had a motivation at killing Dota in First place? Maybe You were against The kill, but other Mafias decided on that way, for example?
I need to Look there, but even If anything it could be A SPK.

[UzayAltay]

Uzay i want you to tell me where in this post i said Sparking was town with a bad read. This was my original argument and the one you said was wrong. The post you've been quoting so much was just me accepting there's a chance Sparking is town with a bad read. If the read is bad or good is subjective and if you disagree with me that doesn't make it a logical flaw.

Sparking you're clearing poly cause of the dead atmosphere but the CFD on Wabbit nullifies that. I was the first vote on that wagon, you were the second one. My vote was not really serious but yours was so you kickstarted the whole thing. If poly is scum there's a big chance you are their buddy.

Mhm I see your point now, You think they are their scumbuddy and trying to clear Poly based no CFD.
That, kinda makes sense but from Sparking's PoV thinking Poly is town Also make sense.

Bruh i asked you. Where did you see me calling Sparking town?

Bruh Are You okay?
I literally just Said I misthought you meant that way.

Why?

At First I thought You tried to convince Sparking off from that read , rather Than You using that as A base to second part. That led me to think You implied "If You are town" at First part.
Than when I say my opinion, you havent corrected me until A point. ( I think You missed "or" in my sentence there, which lead You to point second part repedeatly.)
Only when You pointed to me original post I realized I understood it wrong.

[UzayAltay]

@3cheers Exhibit A)2 happened after You voted.
So You voted only Because Javi didnt want to vote Wabbit?
That Dont seems Like make sense.
And your "rational behind" Didnt make much sense to me from a town mindset. Still not making much sense.

Do you think I should have kept my vote on poly, whom I thought had a decent chance of being a v wagon?
That would make even less sense from a town mindset.
Fact of the matter is, my thought process at EoD was:
chances of Wabbit flipping w based on wagon movements > chances of poly flipping w based on wagon movements
I literally do not understand what your problem with this is.

I don't like that you're tunnelling me based on some made-up argument but otherwise not making any progress on the game. You've singled me out ever since D1.

Because that literally reverses your before reads
And You cannot Show your read on that area now. (Unless You are claiming to change only Because Javi was against it.)
Seriously. İf You had a read Like that, You should be able to show and explain your reads, right ?

yes, it does, because I changed my mind based on the wagons
is changing reads during an admittedly hectic EoD that out of the realm of possibility for you?

3cheers can You stop hedging
Seriously, Show me What lead You to change your ideas
You keep saying "resistance" , "situations of wagons" , etc.
Only thing You shown to me was The following:
#3473281
Which Exhibit A is clearly inaccurate. One post is after your read already changed and You voted Wabbit, other is Javi's resistance, which you TRed till D1.
So again, I cannot see Why You changed your reads.

[UzayAltay]

btw my questions to Uzay still stand and I am more than happy to wagon him if he doesn't answer

So are You Okay with people wagonning You Because You dodged A question earlier?

Spoiler:

-snip-

there were some people who called the Wabbit wagon bullshit and bad right off the bat
there was none of that when the poly wagon started to kick off
-snip

Who is This "some people"?

@3cheers can You give me A defense to me?

what kind of defence do you want me to provide, and to what points of yours?

-snip-

/vote 3cheers

In my opinion, them flipping from Poly to Wabbit in The way they Did was Scummy.

Reason of Poly scumread: an actual scumread
Reason of flip: no pressure against Poly wagon

go read again

good thing is, Crimson/Uzay almost never w/w here, so I think I'll keep my vote on Crimson
lemon might also be a good vote for today imo

(this is like, unless Sparking/Uzay are making absolute fools out of the entire town)

Is there any case on Poly?

their reads are sheepy and the rest of their posts are fluffy
I think they did recognise their posting as bad but didn't really make an attempt to improve on it

(An actual scumread)

my gut tells me that a polypies lynch is not a good idea.

mainly what i mean by this is that i think the progression today has not been in favor of polypies - i think they've remained a likely lynch candidate for almost all of day 1 and i dont think mafia would be ok with allowing that. i think they would make polypies change their behavior.

okay, you're correct in that there is not much resistance to the poly wagon, unlike there is to the Wabbit wagon
/vote Wabbit
see where this goes
also I'm not 100% here bc I'm playing Drawful with friends but I'll try to read the thread

(resistance vs no resistance)

That was Last point of argument, which You didnt answered.

so swapping to a different wagon because you think the top wagon is likely to flip town is scummy?

[Jabichuelas]

well lemon said he'd appear in eod but i don't think everyone else will show up

[UzayAltay]

I may or may not be here in EOD but I'll be here in a few hours.

[cob709]

I'm citizen.
If Jailer or Neopolitan dies tomorrow night that's probably your fault..

[Jabichuelas]

what I don't get is why does poly still consider sparking scummy, guess we'll find out
/vote Sparking

probs couldn't clear everything, will try to fix that tomorrow
sorry if I was aggressive

Bruh wtf you're doing it again. Get your own opinions.

I hope you've checked the spoiler in the previous post. There's no way this isn't my own opinion.
I made a second post because I didn't wanna hide the vote in a spoiler.

got TU as well
deeply apologize for the literal essay, specially to the people it involves
Spoiler: Ok, here's my take: I think Sparking and 3cheers are scum buddies, and I'm back to suspecting poly.

This is no longer about the hypoclaiming dilemma, although I'll still keep that in mind; this is about what took place during EoD.
Before Sparking decided to CFD Wabbit, 3cheers not only townread Wabbit at the time, but she also wanted to get poly lynched. That's clearly visible in her ISO.

However, that changes in page 34 (shortcut) when sparking decides to vote wabbit, and then you see these interactions with sparking from her

I'm not gonna get into Wabbit now because I still find that impossible (though I'll retain my slight v-lean on him for nulltonal reasons), but let me know if you guys think he's got wolf equity and/or is trying to yeet me into scumread territory

3cheers where is your vote at atm?

poly
willing to CFD if there's a convincing case, but my issue is that I have too many scumreads for the actual amount of scum there is in this game

which allow for the opportunity to swap the vote away from poly AND onto Wabbit later on. I've also checked while rereading it that she was still set on voting poly out like if none of that happened. This is weak on its own, but let's move forward. With Kosmo's vote, the votecount was 4 Wabbit | 3 Poly, but before the time extension was added Uzay voted for Poly (uzay is town if my theory is right) and the votes were now 4-4 with 20 minutes left. Now you all say that poly's wagon had no resistance from anyone, but Uzay's vote caused Sparking to quickly ISO dive for our reasonings to vote poly (and around here is when the time extension happened)

@Uzay what swayed you to vote Poly?
Last page you seemed to be clueless on Poly.

I can't find any solid reasons for w!Poly in 3cheers/Javi's ISO

Javi what is your scumread on Poly, all I can see is that you can't find anything townie about them.
why didn't you ask her as well? has she already said enough?

@Samurai, Poly aggressively shades a lot you get used to it after some time.

and then say this. From my pov I think this was a subtle attempt to make us do a last-minute swap by casting doubt about our votes, considering the time of the posts. Honestly, it could have worked for me, but they were far from making me. It "worked" for 3cheers though, but what she did instead was take advantage of Hello's post and swap the vote because of the resistances to both wagons instead of any other reason. You claim that you had little time to think during EoD, but personally I find that hard to believe. Compared to the "you" hours before then, this was too sudden of a change. Besides, poly was close to dying and what I think you did was take a risk to save your buddy. Or maybe the priority was getting Wabbit out. This is something I question.

I regret now not defending Wabbit more, because now that I've reread EoD I find 3 problems with Sparking's wagon:
1) Wabbit had 2 memevotes on him already, Crimson and Lemon. If they had forgotten to appear in EoD, which they did, the wagon would have easily beaten poly's in number of votes.
2) Wabbit said he was going to sleep before you started it, meaning he wouldn't be able to appear at EoD and explain himself in the case against him.
3) The analysis (or case) on buddying 3cheers felt off. Why didn't you just ask Wabbit about the reads on 3cheers? I'm sure you were in time. His reach on Uzay during RVS and the discussion following it happened because no one understood what the three emojis meant, personally I didn't mind much

The read about the vig seemed unnatural, like forcing interaction between you two, need to recheck that
and my PoE was [Kosmo, (Uzay), Sparking, Poly, 3cheers, Cob], haven't elaborated on that yet, ik

If I wanted to defend my supposed buddy poly, pray tell, why was I the first one in the entire game to vote him, and not as a meme, but as a legitimate push?

EBWOP

surprised that's the first flaw you point out, and I still question if that was the priority here, but good point
maybe because you saw he was being scummy, for an attempt at distancing? maybe you didn't expect to be listened to? DADV was brought up after Samurai and me jumped on the wagon, so before that there would be nothing to worry about. Too unlikely?

why would I think I wouldn't be listened to? I'm usually fairly active and when I have conviction, I push that conviction
yeah, I don't doubt that
i said that because maybe it was too soon for people to mind, or they forgot about your vote by reading the rest of your 2nd wall (i know i did :p)
if I thought his wagon was unlikely to happen, I would have defended him when he started becoming the runaway wagon; I would have had multiple opportunities to find somebody else to wagon and to start a wagon on somebody else, but I never did until EoD
okay...
also, strictly speaking, since DADV was brought up after, as you say, you and Samurai jumped on the wagon, don't you think that would implicate you and him more than it does me?
that's where I was trying to get at, since you wouldn't be as implicated there wouldn't be much to worry about

what I mean is, I'm not stranger to bussing, sure, but do you really think I would have started wagoning a scumbuddy first thing on D1, without anything prompting me to do so?

well, no, as long as nothing prompted you to do so, and that's something we don't have the context for assuming w!you

but fine, I don't have enough to explain why you'd wagon poly, and you defend that you're not buddies together
I'd continue but this entire thing feels on hold because of the massclaiming thing and I'm starting to wonder how many people missed my spoiler, if they did

[Chemist1422]

Will be online through EoD

cob claim thing backs up my townread on them

[Chemist1422]

I think Hello's takes have been pretty solid this game

Slight town on kosmo for being abrasive but nothing I'd put too much weight into

[SparkingJay]

Pretty sure Lemon always flips scum here, my main scumteam was [Crimson / 3cheers / Lemon]

Even if we go with Kosmo's thoughts of w!Uzay, who would their team be?
I think they are not w/w with:
Uzay/Hello
Uzay/3cheers
Uzay/Crimson

which likely leads to a scumteam with Lemon in it, possibly something like
[Uzay / Chem / Lemon]

[Chemist1422]

3cheersforidiots
UzayAltay
SparkingJayYT
Jabichuelas
lemonader666
Crimson97
polypies73
HelloSither
ScarredSamurai
kosmo16
cob709

scratch out myself, the visitor claims, cob, flake, and kosmo:

3cheersforidiots
UzayAltay
lemonader666
Crimson97
polypies73

not a bad list I guess

not invested in killing poly today for reasons and I thought lemon looked...okay?

I guess at first glance 3cheers is reminding me of XX7 a bit so I might vote there

[SparkingJay]

Solution, beetlejuice em

[Chemist1422]

/vote 3cheers

[SparkingJay]

VC?

[SparkingJay]

I guess I am fine with 3cheers lynch, still think Lemon is scum either way here.

[UzayAltay]

I came back
Not much is going on, it seems.

[Jabichuelas]

2 | Sparking (Poly, Javi)
2 | 3cheers (Uzay, Chem)
1 | Uzay (Crimson)
1 | Chemist (3cheers)
1 | Lemon (Sparking)

if im wrong speak up

[Jabichuelas]

/unvote
no cc then...

[SparkingJay]

Javi why the fuck are you still voting me

pedit nvm then

[UzayAltay]

Thanks Javi for VC

[SparkingJay]

I came back
Not much is going on, it seems.

ya we're just waiting for lemon and poly to claim not hider / hider

and we have like 34 mins till eod

oh wait, that's calm

[UzayAltay]

I came back
Not much is going on, it seems.

ya we're just waiting for lemon and poly to claim not hider / hider

and we have like 34 mins till eod

Yeah and lead wagon is 2 , it seems.