VFM70 | Manatees (pt. 2) | Game Over

[SparkingJay]

I have returned.

[SparkingJay]

Would mafia have a reason here not to claim they have been roleblocked?
everyone in the game has checked in, but there's no rb to be seen

It's better to not claim RB'd otherwise you are a free nightkill

[SparkingJay]

As i said DADV is nullified by the fact there was a CFD on Wabbit. DADV can even be used as an argument by scum to cause a CFD so it doesn't always mean the top wagon is town.

DADV is a reason why you would CFD.

You are not dumb, you know what i'm saying. If the top wagon is scum and they don't know how to cause a CFD, they can just go "Oh wow, it sure is quiet here. DADV."

It's not like I pushed a CFD as soon as their wagon formed, quiet for several hours or more would mean scum do not care about Poly being wagoned. zzz

I wouldn't expect scum to care inmediately, poly was top wagon like a day before EoD, it could still change. But as EoD gets closer and they're still top wagon, scum would care if their scumbuddy is gonna be lynched.

So you are saying scum wouldn't try to make a town counterwagon until EoD

[Jabichuelas]

Would mafia have a reason here not to claim they have been roleblocked?
everyone in the game has checked in, but there's no rb to be seen

It's better to not claim RB'd otherwise you are a free nightkill

ah, true

[SparkingJay]

Just because Wabbit disagreed with it means no one else can hypo? wut

Also didn't feel too bothered about what

well, no, we could hypo, but I'm not convinced we should?
like, what was the argument in favour of hypoing?

SHC under certain conditions / Get checks out there incase Nea gets NK'd before they can.

I don't feel good about hypoclaiming, but I feel like I'll just feel forced to do it anyway later on when I wake up because everyone else will have done it and they will force me to do it and I can't be the one who screws up the entire thing, just want to observe whether everyone in the game is happy with this or not

Also I don't get dota being the nightkill, wasn't he being scumread and "underproductive"?
(sorry dota, I would've asked you that now that wabbit died maybe you could be more involved, but I guess not)

@lemon @crimson were your votes meant to stay there?

actually, now that you mention it, dota kill is not necessarily a spew on Crimson

Depends what they were NK'd for, my guess is PR over reads but Crimson sr is something to keep in mind.

hypoing nea

Lemon - Not cit.

wtf is this hypo sparking. like i don't want to explain it in case wolves are inexperienced, but like bruh.

I think it's either sparking/lemon not w/w or an attempt to distance if both are scum

I don't understand this w/w read at all.

I have more TRs than I expected and literally have a pool of:
[Hello / Lemon / Crimson / 3Cheers] lul

time to look over my tr's ig

that's....
weird
why is hello in there?

Why should I tr them?

Sparking/poly scum team could actually be a thing.

yes, but it would be very obvious
also I doubt it's a thing after poly's vote on Sparking

It's a sad tale of me thinking they are town and them tunnelling me since their first post.

/vote 3cheers

In my opinion, them flipping from Poly to Wabbit in The way they Did was Scummy.

Reason of Poly scumread: an actual scumread
Reason of flip: no pressure against Poly wagon

go read again

good thing is, Crimson/Uzay almost never w/w here, so I think I'll keep my vote on Crimson
lemon might also be a good vote for today imo

(this is like, unless Sparking/Uzay are making absolute fools out of the entire town)[

Lack of pressure is what tipped you to the other side, I think the vote was somewhat fair given context of your concerns.

Mindmeld with your lynch targets, I may need to reevaluate my TRs at some point because I doubt you would try push both your scumbuddies assuming my PoE was correct unless Hello is a third member.

[cob709]

Would mafia have a reason here not to claim they have been roleblocked?
everyone in the game has checked in, but there's no rb to be seen

It's better to not claim RB'd otherwise you are a free nightkill

Does jailer work like a jailor does in normal ToS?
Like, can they talk to their victim, heal them, and RB them?

[SparkingJay]

I am locking Sparking as Town, development on Wabbit looks very realistic.

uh it was? I'd like you to elaborate on this because locktowning is pretty extreme.

[SparkingJay]

Would mafia have a reason here not to claim they have been roleblocked?
everyone in the game has checked in, but there's no rb to be seen

It's better to not claim RB'd otherwise you are a free nightkill

Does jailer work like a jailor does in normal ToS?
Like, can they talk to their victim, heal them, and RB them?

Jailkeeper is basically an Escort + Doctor in one role. No talking to victims.

Variation in this game is that if I jailed you N1 for example I can't jail you N2.

[SparkingJay]

Jabi why don't you like hypoclaiming?

It's not that I dislike it, but I'm reluctant to do it after seeing how the first four people who checked in immediately made a hypoclaim
and I suppose that's fine and all, except for the fact that we seem to have ignored that during D1 not everyone thought it was a good idea, mainly Wabbit, who ended up being the lynch target for that day

im aware it's too late now though, will hypo soon

I dethroned Wabbit and now taking control of the town, you are welcome.

[SparkingJay]

Uzay i want you to tell me where in this post i said Sparking was town with a bad read. This was my original argument and the one you said was wrong. The post you've been quoting so much was just me accepting there's a chance Sparking is town with a bad read. If the read is bad or good is subjective and if you disagree with me that doesn't make it a logical flaw.

Sparking you're clearing poly cause of the dead atmosphere but the CFD on Wabbit nullifies that. I was the first vote on that wagon, you were the second one. My vote was not really serious but yours was so you kickstarted the whole thing. If poly is scum there's a big chance you are their buddy.

Your logic makes no sense from wolf mindset.

[SparkingJay]

Let's assume poly is scum, then there is definitely a scum in here (SparkingJayYT, kosmo16, lemonader666, 3cheersforidiots) but i'd go with (kosmo/Sparking) seeing how they kickstarted the wagon.

Another surface level analysis basically saying "town can't be wrong".

[SparkingJay]

Some not w/w reads in [Hello / Crimson / 3cheers / Lemon]
- Hello/Uzay not w/w
- Crimson/Uzay not w/w
- 3cheers/Uzay not w/w

If 3/4 of my non TRs are entirely wrong I'll accept defeat but for now I'm putting Uzay as a high TR.

- Hello/Kosmo not w/w (hesitant, Kosmo making an unexplained push on Hello then retracting it later for being forgetful would be a weird distance)
- 3cheers/Kosmo not w/w (3cheers pushing Kosmo for not explaining their read doesn't ping w/w)

- Hello/Crimson not w/w
- Hello/Cob not w/w (discrediting me saying Cob is v for not looking like they were being coached)

I was going to compare with every player but I am lazy so have this for now.

[Crimson97]

As i said DADV is nullified by the fact there was a CFD on Wabbit. DADV can even be used as an argument by scum to cause a CFD so it doesn't always mean the top wagon is town.

DADV is a reason why you would CFD.

You are not dumb, you know what i'm saying. If the top wagon is scum and they don't know how to cause a CFD, they can just go "Oh wow, it sure is quiet here. DADV."

It's not like I pushed a CFD as soon as their wagon formed, quiet for several hours or more would mean scum do not care about Poly being wagoned. zzz

I wouldn't expect scum to care inmediately, poly was top wagon like a day before EoD, it could still change. But as EoD gets closer and they're still top wagon, scum would care if their scumbuddy is gonna be lynched.

So you are saying scum wouldn't try to make a town counterwagon until EoD

Not necessarely. They could wait and see if another one comes up.

[SparkingJay]

As i said DADV is nullified by the fact there was a CFD on Wabbit. DADV can even be used as an argument by scum to cause a CFD so it doesn't always mean the top wagon is town.

DADV is a reason why you would CFD.

You are not dumb, you know what i'm saying. If the top wagon is scum and they don't know how to cause a CFD, they can just go "Oh wow, it sure is quiet here. DADV."

It's not like I pushed a CFD as soon as their wagon formed, quiet for several hours or more would mean scum do not care about Poly being wagoned. zzz

I wouldn't expect scum to care inmediately, poly was top wagon like a day before EoD, it could still change. But as EoD gets closer and they're still top wagon, scum would care if their scumbuddy is gonna be lynched.

So you are saying scum wouldn't try to make a town counterwagon until EoD

Not necessarely. They could wait and see if another one comes up.

Hope that a townie comes along and saves the day?
Come on don't act dumb and think that scum would just sit around all day.

[Crimson97]

Let's assume poly is scum, then there is definitely a scum in here (SparkingJayYT, kosmo16, lemonader666, 3cheersforidiots) but i'd go with (kosmo/Sparking) seeing how they kickstarted the wagon.

Another surface level analysis basically saying "town can't be wrong".

So what you're telling me is that scum would want to make a counterwagon against a scum top wagon before EoD but not during EoD? By the way the one where i assume poly is town is weaker but ig you cared more about this one cause it accused you.

[Crimson97]

As i said DADV is nullified by the fact there was a CFD on Wabbit. DADV can even be used as an argument by scum to cause a CFD so it doesn't always mean the top wagon is town.

DADV is a reason why you would CFD.

You are not dumb, you know what i'm saying. If the top wagon is scum and they don't know how to cause a CFD, they can just go "Oh wow, it sure is quiet here. DADV."

It's not like I pushed a CFD as soon as their wagon formed, quiet for several hours or more would mean scum do not care about Poly being wagoned. zzz

I wouldn't expect scum to care inmediately, poly was top wagon like a day before EoD, it could still change. But as EoD gets closer and they're still top wagon, scum would care if their scumbuddy is gonna be lynched.

So you are saying scum wouldn't try to make a town counterwagon until EoD

Not necessarely. They could wait and see if another one comes up.

Hope that a townie comes along and saves the day?
Come on don't act dumb and think that scum would just sit around all day.

It's what you're telling me in the post i quoted above so...

[SparkingJay]

Crimson why do you think scum are clowns that would let town make and control all the pushes until EoD.

[Crimson97]

According to you, if poly is town then it was DADV but if poly is scum then it means scum was just willing to let them die. And at the same time, scum wouldn't let a buddy get to top wagon without starting a counterwagon inmediately.

[SparkingJay]

According to you, if poly is town then it was DADV but if poly is scum then it means scum was just willing to let them die. And at the same time, scum wouldn't let a buddy get to top wagon without starting a counterwagon inmediately.

It being DADV means Poly is town, why would you apply that in the context of scum!Poly.
"And at the same time, scum wouldn't let a buddy get to top wagon without starting a counterwagon inmediately." I swear you were arguing against this.

[SparkingJay]

Let's stop it here, it's just disrupting actual solving at this point.

[Crimson97]

Crimson why do you think scum are clowns that would let town make and control all the pushes until EoD.

Bruh in the KH FM that just ended you guys left 2 mafia members sit as top wagons for half the day. The only scum pushing in the top wagons was Chemist while you were clowning around with Cenvil the whole day. Then when it was obvious Chemist was gonna get lynched Uzay and Jackson decided to start pushing for a town top wagon.

[Crimson97]

According to you, if poly is town then it was DADV but if poly is scum then it means scum was just willing to let them die. And at the same time, scum wouldn't let a buddy get to top wagon without starting a counterwagon inmediately.

It being DADV means Poly is town, why would you apply that in the context of scum!Poly.
"And at the same time, scum wouldn't let a buddy get to top wagon without starting a counterwagon inmediately." I swear you were arguing against this.

Ik, i'm just saying what you're telling me. It's all contradictory.

[SparkingJay]

Crimson why do you think scum are clowns that would let town make and control all the pushes until EoD.

Bruh in the KH FM that just ended you guys left 2 mafia members sit as top wagons for half the day. The only scum pushing in the top wagons was Chemist while you were clowning around with Cenvil the whole day. Then when it was obvious Chemist was gonna get lynched Uzay and Jackson decided to start pushing for a town top wagon.

Elusive wagon existed by at least mid day lol, and I made a case against Cenvil at least 10 hours before EoD.

[Crimson97]

Crimson why do you think scum are clowns that would let town make and control all the pushes until EoD.

Bruh in the KH FM that just ended you guys left 2 mafia members sit as top wagons for half the day. The only scum pushing in the top wagons was Chemist while you were clowning around with Cenvil the whole day. Then when it was obvious Chemist was gonna get lynched Uzay and Jackson decided to start pushing for a town top wagon.

Elusive wagon existed by at least mid day lol, and I made a case against Cenvil at least 10 hours before EoD.

They were both minor wagons until EoD when Uzay voted and then i voted. Same here, we had Hello's wagon for a long time, and other 1 vote wagons.

[Crimson97]

Any of those wagons could have been failed attempts to get people off poly.