VFM 56: Mad 17 | End | Mafia win

[dota2reporter]

this game is a perfect example of why Juck should of been sent to champs.
He completely destroyed town confused and bamboozled them at any oppounity and led his team to a perfect win.
If that doesnt scream best wolf player on this site then I don't know what does.

+1

[Royee]

next time we send juck

[LOLingHyena]

If it makes town feel better, only one game out of 13 in MU Champs has been won by town with this setup so far. There were a lot of wolf sweeps, too.

how come?

also hi hyena!!

I don't know if anybody has figured out specifically why, but one working theory is that once town loses momentum (via mislynching town), it's hard to get it back. Having just finished up playing as town recently in a game with this setup, I do think it's winnable as town. However, a lot of focus I think has to go into finding town and working together as town rather than scumhunting. I dunno though. It's a tough setup.

Also, hi Dota. <3

Dont take this away from me

I'm not trying to. ;-; Besides, I already mentioned that not all the games where town lost were wolf sweeps, so you guys get extra points for doing that to town. :3

[TheDebil]

next time we send juck

[FMLSheWas12]

for some reason splitting everyone up into small PRs make town lose much more than if they had citizens and normal PRs, weird

I considered this at one point, but the more I've thought about it, I don't think it plays as big as a factor in the difficulty of this setup for town as I originally though aside from the game being basically mountainous after everyone has used their abilities D4. Good PR play though before that probably increases town's chances a lot.

also where have you been hyena?

Recharging. <3 I'm not ready to come back and play just yet. I'll probably be fully recovered from Champs in about a month or so. :3

In my season most games were mafia wins and I think mafia is generally favoured to win historically. I think it's due to community diversification.

I don't know whether this setup is scumsided or not though so that could also be a factor.

[Royee]

If it makes town feel better, only one game out of 13 in MU Champs has been won by town with this setup so far. There were a lot of wolf sweeps, too.

how come?

also hi hyena!!

I don't know if anybody has figured out specifically why, but one working theory is that once town loses momentum (via mislynching town), it's hard to get it back. Having just finished up playing as town recently in a game with this setup, I do think it's winnable as town. However, a lot of focus I think has to go into finding town and working together as town rather than scumhunting. I dunno though. It's a tough setup.

Also, hi Dota. <3

Dont take this away from me

I'm not trying to. ;-; Besides, I already mentioned that not all the games where town lost were wolf sweeps, so you guys get extra points for doing that to town. :3

wdym by "wolf sweeps"?

[LOLingHyena]

In my season most games were mafia wins and I think mafia is generally favoured to win historically. I think it's due to community diversification.

I don't know whether this setup is scumsided or not though so that could also be a factor.

Community diversification was another thing mentioned which I definitely would agree with. A lot of folks this season, especially in the qualifier games, didn't seem to be used to different playstyles or the pace of the game in the tournament.

wdym by "wolf sweeps"?

Basically a steamroll by the wolves/scum. Where town gets pretty much demolished by the scumteam.

[Phone0Ix]

Hyena does great in champs

Ppl: 'Next time we send juck'

Juck would be a great pick but your guys are missing a serious judgement here

[ryanyb]

o o f

[ryanyb]

Also this setup is very town sided for what it's worth.
There's a reason that most people don't like the champs setup.

[ryanyb]

"Very" might be a bit of an overstatement but the pressure of this setup is on the scum to make a play to win the game rather than the town to find the scum to not lose the game
which imo isn't great.

[philip1077]

Also this setup is very town sided for what it's worth.
There's a reason that most people don't like the champs setup.

Town sided? wtf? No! For one, mafia knows the discarded role. For two, alignment cops don’t reveal roles. For three, any role can have any alignment. 4, I’m stupid af, and went afk a lot. So no, this wasn’t town sided.

[Chemist1422]

someone who rands town being bad is not a sign of an inherently mafia-sided setup

[Jalandh]

Also this setup is very town sided for what it's worth.
There's a reason that most people don't like the champs setup.

Lmao everyone on MU agreed its scumsided slightly

And thats without scum knowing what role isnt used

[Jalandh]

Iirc, the only one that town won was the one where the town protectives prevented all nonlynch deads until n5

[Chemist1422]

Iirc, the only one that town won was the one where the town protectives prevented all nonlynch deads until n5

I think town won g5 or something in qualifiers

[dota2reporter]

Hyena does great in champs

Ppl: 'Next time we send juck'

Juck would be a great pick but your guys are missing a serious judgement here

it was sarcasm come on

[0verki11]

Hyena does great in champs

Ppl: 'Next time we send juck'

Juck would be a great pick but your guys are missing a serious judgement here

it was sarcasm come on

no it wasnt, I geneiunly belevive that his wolf play is some of the best on this site and would stand up well aganist some of the best wolfs of MU

[dota2reporter]

Hyena does great in champs

Ppl: 'Next time we send juck'

Juck would be a great pick but your guys are missing a serious judgement here

it was sarcasm come on

no it wasnt, I geneiunly belevive that his wolf play is some of the best on this site and would stand up well aganist some of the best wolfs of MU

oh

then hes unreadable yeah i agree

[Qvapil]

Being unreadable by prodging and refusing to contribute doesn't make a good scum. He'd be PLed immediately.

[dota2reporter]

Being unreadable by prodging and refusing to contribute doesn't make a good scum. He'd be PLed immediately.

yes i forgot to add

he's unreadable but not championships level

[TheDebil]

Being unreadable by prodging and refusing to contribute doesn't make a good scum. He'd be PLed immediately.

yeah even if he survived he may not be picked
but it would be funny

[dota2reporter]

also qva with the 100% scum winrate, nice

[Qvapil]

Being unreadable by prodging and refusing to contribute doesn't make a good scum. He'd be PLed immediately.

yeah even if he survived he may not be picked
but it would be funny

I'd prefer our representative to actually make an effort

[Royee]

"Very" might be a bit of an overstatement but the pressure of this setup is on the scum to make a play to win the game rather than the town to find the scum to not lose the game
which imo isn't great.

Well, you are half right. I think you are confusing with the setup which had 17 roles. The "new" setup which is the one that was played has another role which i believe is the role cop. Because of that and the mechanic that there is an unknown role that didn't role into the game and only mafia knows that, mafia has more options to make plays. In addition he added to the upgraded setup 2 more strongman which can favour mafia sometimes. In general I think that this setup can be townsided once town knows what to do, this setup spews town members when a mafia is lynched but in the same time mafia has more options to make plays that can impact the game in a way that they can win no matter what. Playing this setup feels like a sfm game, night actions mostly dont matter(although everyone has one) and only scum reading does something(that's why I wanted it to be played as a sfm).
You need to have the same mind as me to understand what I am saying.