SFM 56 | Everything's Randomised | Mafia Win

[EvilDeanius0]

/vote tfios

Alternative if mouse comes on and defends and you guys want to switch.
Might be up in time, might not.

[LinearPoint]

So wait were you actually just doing that to see if I would claim I visited Crimson and you really had no read on me?

[FMLSheWas12]

Problem with mouse.
Mouse was CFDing off town onto a different town.
Maybe if they weer CFDing off Mafia I might call that suspicious, but you can't say their push on phone was suspicious.
Not to mention they were wanting a CFD off multi which put them at risk of being lynched. Which is such a risky play I don't think a Mafia would take.
Plus I like that they sound like they really believed Phone was scum there and they maintained that the whole game.

I would prefer between Hereisme, Witch, and Eragon over a mouse as I think those all are way more likely mafia.

What about Whirl?

[Jezz92]

Does Mafia!Eragon that knows I'm fakeclaiming push the vig to shoot me or push the mislynch?

if mafia!eragon was gonna try and push town!mouse and both you and linear are town then the former

[LinearPoint]

Definately not Whirl.
I just looked at his ISO and he is literally been townspewing all game.

tifos maybe. I don't know what to think about their comment that no wagon can be pure and that if mouse ever flipped scum it was a bus.
Boarderline feels like TMI and attempting at setting up multiple mislynches .

[LinearPoint]

Fuck it. Doing something extra spicy.

/vote Eragon

[Jezz92]

Definately not Whirl.
I just looked at his ISO and he is literally been townspewing all game.

tifos maybe. I don't know what to think about their comment that no wagon can be pure and that if mouse ever flipped scum it was a bus.
Boarderline feels like TMI and attempting at setting up multiple mislynches .

Spoiler:

Multi – 3 – hereisme, witchhaven, FML
Royee – 3 – multi, taylork, mouse
Hereisme – 2 – wabbit, ryan
FML – 1 – [ultiix]
Jezz – 1 – evil

Not voting: whirlwind, crimson, phone, yellow, tfios, jezz, royee

so this is menace's last VC before the EOD one
was gonna make some other ones in between to get a closer look at some of the transitions but i kinda got frustrated/bored with it
might still do it a bit later, got some other stuff to do this afternoon

multi flipped town, royee has two flipped town on his wagon
so if mouse and royee are both town that means that we have a pure wagon on a townie, and a counter wagon that is also town
in this case i don't think there is very much scum input here? could be wrong but just glancing at the vote shifting in general without looking into it too much nothing seems overly pushy to me
I would probably only be a little sus of FML if royee flipped scum imo
this vote from hereisme is still from RvS so we can't look into motive here

shortly after this VC is where both crimson and evil vote hereisme, which in the event of scum!hereisme probably doesn't come from buddies (?)
idk so much about crimson's vote but evil stating he'd be fine with either multi or hereisme and then voting hereisme doesn't strike me as SvS

based on this VC alone seems kinda icky to think of all of multi/royee/hereisme as town ngl, but if they are all town then scum are probably almost entirely within non-voters, since they really don't have much need to push much if none of their own risk being endangered

i don't know how i feel about the possibility of a pure townie wagon on a townie, out of gut feeling i believe one of royee/mouse is scum.

I didn’t like how tfios responded to this focusing on the royee wagon when saying she was unsure about a pure wagon on a townie, yet says nothing about the wagon on multi who flipped town

[FMLSheWas12]

Definately not Whirl.
I just looked at his ISO and he is literally been townspewing all game.

Interesting, articulate it for me?

[Jezz92]

hereisme/tfios
2 slots that are basically out of the game rn
also getting a slight associative read on them just for that tfios post
so that's fun

[theyellowgreninja]

Problem with mouse.
Mouse was CFDing off town onto a different town.
Maybe if they weer CFDing off Mafia I might call that suspicious, but you can't say their push on phone was suspicious.
Not to mention they were wanting a CFD off multi which put them at risk of being lynched. Which is such a risky play I don't think a Mafia would take.
Plus I like that they sound like they really believed Phone was scum there and they maintained that the whole game.

I would prefer between Hereisme, Witch, and Eragon over a mouse as I think those all are way more likely mafia.

See, I actually don't much mind mouse going all in on phone (it was logical enough, I'd say)
The big issue I have with mouse is the lack of any sort of answers to anything, or any type of other town-focused play.
I'm going to look back at my situation with Multi (just for a second, don't get mad at me)
I thought multi was scum, yeah? I went all in on it, and I was wrong. D2, instead of peacing out and not saying anything, I stuck up for my thoughts and I answered all of the questions I was asked (and expected to be asked because Multi was town).
Basically, the fact that mouse isn't saying anything to try to to defend the (easily defendable) lynch of Phone, nor make any other sort of town-motivated plays (or any plays for that matter) just feels bad to me, like mouse can't think of a reason they wanted phone dead, which is especially weird since I can think of at least 3.

As for hereisme/witch/eregon:
witch: no (unless witch royally messes up, I don't think they will ever be a viable lynch target, because rn everyone but you townreads them)
eragon: no (literally every post from them has been very much town-oriented or NAI, so I don't quite understand why we'd try to lynch them)
hereisme: eh (I think it's reasonable that mafia is purposefully "avoiding TP" because of hereisme's claim (in a scum!hereisme case), but the fact is mafia is avoiding possible TP targets, so not the best lynch today I'd say)

I also won't be around for EoD (I'll have to peace out ~4 hours pre-EoD). so I'll put in my vote now
/vote mouse

[FMLSheWas12]

I'd be okay to wagon hereisme but ryan insists he's town and I'm still not too sure why.

[Jezz92]

i mean at this point I'm willing to put whirlwind as almost lock town if hereisme flips scum tbh
but like I'm still not 100% on hereisme
the energy is still clearly lacking but I empathise, he's not the only one in this game lacking either

[LinearPoint]

I just wan to collect my thoughts.

Town:
OK, EvilD is probably town. I don't really think they would try and risk that stunt as Mafia.
Ryan I like their motivation for faking Mason and wast just getting town vibes so town as well.
Whirl I also liked this posts and feel they are town so that's a third person I trust here.

Possible Scum:
Witch because as I stated before I don't particularly like their involvement with the fake Mason claims and their pushes onto Multi and Phone.
Eragon was initially a scum read because Witch was hard defending Royee for seemingly no reason from what I could see and defended them in such a way that resulted in a PR mislynch. Eragon then came in and seemed questionable. I also don't particulalry like how they wanted to comepletely avoid lynching the people ccing each other and instead went onto a lynch target (mouse) with very spotty reasoning. I don't like the "their wagon was pure" reasoning.
tifos like I said in last post feels off with their push on mouse and royee/Eragon saying it was TvS or SvS and they then said at least 2 scum were on Mouse wagon if Mouse was town and if not scum was bussing. Not sure but I think if this is cum Eragon is clean and vice versa. All of tifos's proposed scenarios was to lynch mouse and Eragon the following day. I think if mouse is Mafia there's good reason to suspect tifos and clear Eragon, but if Mouse is town I think Eragon is Mafia and tifos is still a bit of a question mark but I'd more lean town.
hereisme like I said both night kills were people who hereisme was town reading and hereisme pushed both mislynches though only symbolically voted Phone after the deadline.

Everyone else I haven't really gotten around to in terms of trying to hard solve.
Though I had a town lean on yellow early on from gut. FML also feels slight town. Jezz and Wabbit are hard Null reads and 1 if not both is probably scum, but I can't tell.

[FMLSheWas12]

i mean at this point I'm willing to put whirlwind as almost lock town if hereisme flips scum tbh
but like I'm still not 100% on hereisme
the energy is still clearly lacking but I empathise, he's not the only one in this game lacking either

Yeah don't think they're SvS either.

[Jezz92]

reiterating
whirlwind probably doesn't distance from hereisme as persistently as he has been without trying to do other things at the same time
like his posts haven't exactly been that strong but he's still there and still fairly on board

and even if he did i doubt hereisme pushes him as SvS
i don't think hereisme is a busser

[FMLSheWas12]

You're thinking about lynching within there I'm assuming Jezz?

[LinearPoint]

Definately not Whirl.
I just looked at his ISO and he is literally been townspewing all game.

Interesting, articulate it for me?

townie as fuck.
Trying to solve, making an effort to read people, posts are substantial and quite in depth from what I can tell, and I really like their push on hereisme as they took the time to look into it.
And as a bonus I liked their defense of Phone though I'm not putting weight in it as Mafia can defend town.

[LinearPoint]

I'd be willing to lynch in hereisme and whirl.
I'd prefer hereisme obviously.

[FMLSheWas12]

Definately not Whirl.
I just looked at his ISO and he is literally been townspewing all game.

Interesting, articulate it for me?

townie as fuck.
Trying to solve, making an effort to read people, posts are substantial and quite in depth from what I can tell, and I really like their push on hereisme as they took the time to look into it.
And as a bonus I liked their defense of Phone though I'm not putting weight in it as Mafia can defend town.

The thing is those two examples you provided are the only instances of analysis I can recall from that slot. Unless I'm missing something it's not really an effort to read the game. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[LinearPoint]

So? I usually do just long in depth analysis of 1 or 2 people.
I wouldn't say someone is scum for not doing in depth analysis on every player.
In fact he's pretty much the only one to have done an in depth analysis so far.

[FMLSheWas12]

So? I usually do just long in depth analysis of 1 or 2 people.
I wouldn't say someone is scum for not doing in depth analysis on every player.
In fact he's pretty much the only one to have done an in depth analysis so far.

Well it doesn't make them scum but it doesn't make me think they're trying to solve.

[theyellowgreninja]

I could roll with hereisme/Whirlwind lynch, but I first need maybe some of Whirls content from Linear to see what they mean when they say he's townie because I personally don't really see it (I have him as slight scum still). I think a hereisme lynch would give more info (especially in regards to mafia kills, which we can use to extrapolate some info on mafia and stuff), but is riskier, because if hereisme is actually town, we lose a TP (and the only Protective we know about). I still think mouse is an option, but I'm more open to suggestion than I have been. I really don't know, there are like 4 or 5 people I can roll with lynching (including tfios, although less so, because the lack of content means I can't read them with confidence)

[LinearPoint]

There were a chunk of posts I saw from whirl that went very in dpth as to why they believed hereisme was scum.
Spoiler:

I forgot there were spoilers so I'm going to do 4 posts at a time to not make an unreadable wall.

I'm going to spend half this phase complaining about the phase lengths and if you join me I'm going to town-read you.

They're not all that bad, just confusing. twelve of those 17 hours of night phase could be nighttime for some people...

I'm going to spend half this phase complaining about the phase lengths and if you join me I'm going to town-read you.

Yes nights are too short I’m not gonna have enough time to send my alert night action in

Early pocket attempts...
Hmmm...
Thonk

Oh man yeah these phase times suck ass, FML.
Just awful and I'm disgusted...
Unbelievable ya know?

Hereisme's first AI post. The first part seems like direct shade onto Witch and Jezz, both of who I'm townreading. The read in itself isn't justifiable due to them arguably doing the same thing in the second part of the post.

Are you implying that I and Jezz are scum trying to pocket town, even when we don't know that FML is town in the first place?

Since he also made his own response to FML in the same post it felt more like a joke to me tbh

I couldn't tell, honestly.

What Jezz said mate.
Just joking around, no worries.
I hoped my response with smiley would tell you that too.

This is a logical justification, but I'm somewhat concerned that they used it as an escape route of sorts and the post was serious. It's possible I'm only thinking this because I went into the ISO dive with an established scumread on them, but I still don't like it.

After this, they have a few fluff posts, which are all NAI. This is their re-entrance:

Just came back after taking a much needed 24 hour break.
I've been gradually losing whim for weeks and it hit a peak.
I'm caught up on the thread and I'm gonna ISO dive for reads.
What I can say from what I've seen, Jezz is my highest TR.
Not sure about SRs yet, but I'm sure diving will help.
Since you guys are currently lynching me, should I claim?

They do end up posting reads later, which is a better look for them. I'll be going into detail about those reads in my next post, as this one is already somewhat long without spoilers.

Quick reads - Sorry if they aren't great - I'm tired.
Whirl- *unknown alt with most their posts noting that*
Their posts were mostly early game fluff, but one contained a few reads. - NULL
Crimson - Flow felt natural, progressing from jokes to serious play. He questioned mouse having n0 check, didnt like ryan giving reasonless TR, and he tried to figure out my meta. - Slight Town Lean
Phone - Two posts... that's it. P-edit: Now he has some more, but not much. - NULL
EvilD - His defense of Royee felt honest to me.
It's something that stood out as townie. But I'd still say he could be anything. - NULL
yellowgreninja - I liked how he came into thread pretty serious and posted reads. Yes, they were quick day one reads, but it struck me as town motivated. I also liked his response to Wabbit. - Slight Town Lean
taylor - Didn't like their sheeping Multi to vote Royee. Also sheeped Wabbit's opinion of me. Then they kept talking about their scum meta, but we can't possibly know if he's doing any of that yet. - Very Slight Scum Lean
tfios - Only has 4 posts... - NULL
Witch - Started by talking about setup a lot.
Also wanted ISOs which felt townie and made a quick reads list as well as posted many other opinions. Has an attitude of trying to push game state foward. Mason claim with ryan. - Slight Town Lean
Ultiix - 5 posts of not much... - NULL
FML - Their progression in game/the SR and vote on Multi felt genuine. Actually trying to hunt scum and push the game in a good direction. - Slight Town Lean
Wabbit - Has a pretty big presence in thread already. Their pushes feel like they're town motivated so far, but I got mixed vibes when I was rereading ISO. Since I don't feel comfortable TRing him yet - NULL/mixed
Jezz - Her activity says she's town. If she was scum she would have noped out already IMO. Besides that fact, she's putting forward a lot of reads and trying to solve stuffs already. Plus I'm pretty sure she is legit claiming. - High Town
Royee - His intro feels very different than 17B where he was scum. Seems very ready to play and trying to jump in seriously while everyone else is still joking. Personally, I found this town indicative for him. I also didn't like how there was nobody trying to stop his lynch. - Slight Town Lean
ryan - Got to the ISO and it's long.. I felt he was townie while reading thread and he claimed Mason. I'm tired so here's a town read. -Town
Multi - Jokes until vote on Royee. Then more jokes. Then a tunnel on Royee. Until he finally switches to Phone now? In same post said ED is bad for switching wagons?- Slight Scum Lean
mouse - A bunch of ego posts.. I'm too tired RN..
- NULL
Jezz
ryan/Witch
Crimson/yellow/FML/Royee
Wabbit
Whirl/Phone/EvilD/tfios/Ult/mouse
taylor
Multi

Most of the reads are alright, but I want to point some out:

Phone - only comments on volume and makes no attempt to read his content.
EvilD - Weak read that feels like a read should be given yet does not give one.

Other than this and one point I plan on bringing up later, these reads are fine, and the lack of a Phone read could be justified by not having time to do the read (as they mention that they're tired, making me think they threw these together before going to sleep.)

Since that vote switch bothered me too -

/vote Multiuniverse

Why did you go from tunneling Royee as scum, to voting a different wagon?

The vote seems minorly opportunistic in a vacuum, but it does match up with their readlist.

Here's why I don't dislike the Multi wagon -
He tunneled Royee for most of his ISO.
Then instead of pushing that SR when he came online,
he voted Phone instead, which felt wishy-washy.
Why the sudden switch?

If you guys want to vote me still, then so be it.
I claimed my role, and contributed my reads.
Who else would you prefer to CFD onto?
Because there isn't a lot of time.

Compared to the last two, I don't like this post. It's once again somewhat weak in their stance on Multi and they've started to become repetitive about their read.

Well now I'm wishing I has stayed awake longer for EoD.
In honesty I probably would have switched to mouse over Multi.
I feel like taylor was killed because they were a SR of mine.
It's like the Mafia knew I would be protecting a TR and they were my only other SR after Multi.
I've gotta catch up on the past few pages so I'll give thoughts after.

This is the second thing about their readslist that I didn't like: they have a lower read on Multi than mouse but claim that they'd have voted mouse over Multi. It seems like an attempt to distance themselves from a mislynch wagon that makes me feel like they are scum, despite their points earlier.

So I'm caught up but reading didn't really help much.
Guess I'll be ISO diving later...
Was there any particular reason for the SRs on me (now+yesterday) besides inactivity?
Would be nice to see a legit case of where I've been scum motivated.
Other than that, I'll be around looking at stuff in thread.
But I gotta wait to do reads for a few hours when I'm home.

You asked for it

I also liked this whole interaction and looks to come from a town's perspective as they are trying to figure out a reasoning behind Phone's actions while most other people simply did not care to look at why Town!Phone would act in such a way.

I’m back for a little while, I still think Phone is in their town meta so I wouldn’t lynch them.

Weren’t you scum reading them though

I was earlier, but I think their defense is something they’d do as town.

Literally how? I mean, you do you buddy, but like how TF does wanting to be lynched as "cit" over a PR claim that may or may not be real make them townie?

Why would mafia ever try to get themselves lynched?

Plus in general their read on Phone feels townie as at first they scum read them, but they actually took the time to step back and reevaluate Phone and realize they were town which is something that I think is way more likely to come from town than a scum.

[LinearPoint]

/vote hereisme

[theyellowgreninja]

Right.
I'm going to hang out on mouse, but only because I'm not confident enough in hereisme being scum to risk losing a TProt, and I do think mouse is also scum.