Town of Salem Game Forums

The only witch change I would support is changing them so they win if they're alive when the last town dies, since at that point, they've literally fulfilled their win condition of "Live to see the town lose."

Mikemk wrote:The only witch change I would support is changing them so they win if they're alive when the last town dies, since at that point, they've literally fulfilled their win condition of "Live to see the town lose."

Or if more evil alive than town casue 3 maf 1 town, can still lynch witch for the "funsies." I've seen it happen. It's BS.

Flake wrote:

Atalanta8 wrote:

Anyar wrote: they might as well leave as soon as they're in the grave instead of staying and potentially giving info to Meds out of spite.

And lose -15 elo for doing so.

You lose more Elo for quitting when dead even if your win chance is 0%?

If so that's stupid.

Your win chance is never 0.

Atalanta8 wrote:

Mikemk wrote:The only witch change I would support is changing them so they win if they're alive when the last town dies, since at that point, they've literally fulfilled their win condition of "Live to see the town lose."

Or if more evil alive than town casue 3 maf 1 town, can still lynch witch for the "funsies." I've seen it happen. It's BS.

Seen it too. Just report them, at that point it's gamethrowing because they know you're on the same team.

Mikemk wrote:

Flake wrote:

Atalanta8 wrote:

Anyar wrote: they might as well leave as soon as they're in the grave instead of staying and potentially giving info to Meds out of spite.

And lose -15 elo for doing so.

You lose more Elo for quitting when dead even if your win chance is 0%?

If so that's stupid.

Your win chance is never 0.

If you're NE who didn't complete their goal/NK and you're dead, your win chance is 0. It's not like Town or Mafia where you have a faction to pick up the game for you.

I thought you only lost max elo if you leave while alive.

Atalanta8 wrote:

Mikemk wrote:The only witch change I would support is changing them so they win if they're alive when the last town dies, since at that point, they've literally fulfilled their win condition of "Live to see the town lose."

Or if more evil alive than town casue 3 maf 1 town, can still lynch witch for the "funsies." I've seen it happen. It's BS.

Being salty about losing is not a valid reason for changing game mechanics.

Flake wrote:long term effects do not offset the feeling of unfairness in the short term

See above.

Mikemk wrote:

Atalanta8 wrote:3 maf 1 town, can still lynch witch for the "funsies." I've seen it happen. It's BS.

Seen it too. Just report them, at that point it's gamethrowing because they know you're on the same team.

Being salty about losing is, in addition to not being a valid reason for changing game mechanics, also not a valid reason for reporting the winning team.

Mikemk wrote:The only witch change I would support is changing them so they win if they're alive when the last town dies, since at that point, they've literally fulfilled their win condition of "Live to see the town lose."

This may be the first valid suggestion in the thread. I disagree though. The witch is effectively an evil survivor, so she should be required to actually live to the end of the game. I would agree with giving the witch a win in the event that she lives to see a draw between evil factions.

James2 wrote:

Mikemk wrote:

Atalanta8 wrote:3 maf 1 town, can still lynch witch for the "funsies." I've seen it happen. It's BS.

Seen it too. Just report them, at that point it's gamethrowing because they know you're on the same team.

Being salty about losing is, in addition to not being a valid reason for changing game mechanics, also not a valid reason for reporting the winning team.

The thing is, in this scenario, you're a part of the winning team, and yet still lose.

Mikemk wrote:

BasicFourLife wrote:You can start by getting rid of her Consig ability, it’s retarded for her to have it in the first place.

Actually, only consig ability would work better than only controlling, since she could find out who she wins with.

That’d be trash. Trash.

Flake wrote:

Atalanta8 wrote:

Anyar wrote: they might as well leave as soon as they're in the grave instead of staying and potentially giving info to Meds out of spite.

And lose -15 elo for doing so.

You lose more Elo for quitting when dead even if your win chance is 0%?

If so that's stupid.

uh huh. It really freaking is.

Mikemk wrote:

Atalanta8 wrote:

Mikemk wrote:The only witch change I would support is changing them so they win if they're alive when the last town dies, since at that point, they've literally fulfilled their win condition of "Live to see the town lose."

Or if more evil alive than town casue 3 maf 1 town, can still lynch witch for the "funsies." I've seen it happen. It's BS.

Seen it too. Just report them, at that point it's gamethrowing because they know you're on the same team.

However, it's not considered GTing per rules and therefore reporting is useless.

Mikemk wrote:

James2 wrote:

Mikemk wrote:

Atalanta8 wrote:3 maf 1 town, can still lynch witch for the "funsies." I've seen it happen. It's BS.

Seen it too. Just report them, at that point it's gamethrowing because they know you're on the same team.

Being salty about losing is, in addition to not being a valid reason for changing game mechanics, also not a valid reason for reporting the winning team.

The thing is, in this scenario, you're a part of the winning team, and yet still lose.

Exactly. thank you.

James2 wrote:

Atalanta8 wrote:

Mikemk wrote:The only witch change I would support is changing them so they win if they're alive when the last town dies, since at that point, they've literally fulfilled their win condition of "Live to see the town lose."

Or if more evil alive than town casue 3 maf 1 town, can still lynch witch for the "funsies." I've seen it happen. It's BS.

Being salty about losing is not a valid reason for changing game mechanics.

It's not being salty that you lost. It's being salty becasue in all sense and purposes you win but then some assholes decide that it'd be fun if you don't get to win after all because it doesn't effect their win. 100% this is a valid reason to change game mechanics. Lynching witch as "funsies" should at the very least be a report-able offense which results in a ban.

Mikemk wrote:I thought you only lost max elo if you leave while alive.

Pretty sure i lost 15 for leaving after death.

Mikemk wrote:

Flake wrote:

Atalanta8 wrote:

Anyar wrote: they might as well leave as soon as they're in the grave instead of staying and potentially giving info to Meds out of spite.

And lose -15 elo for doing so.

You lose more Elo for quitting when dead even if your win chance is 0%?

If so that's stupid.

Your win chance is never 0.

Tell that to Jester killed N1 by maf...

Mikemk wrote:

James2 wrote:

Mikemk wrote:

Atalanta8 wrote:3 maf 1 town, can still lynch witch for the "funsies." I've seen it happen. It's BS.

Seen it too. Just report them, at that point it's gamethrowing because they know you're on the same team.

Being salty about losing is, in addition to not being a valid reason for changing game mechanics, also not a valid reason for reporting the winning team.

The thing is, in this scenario, you're a part of the winning team, and yet still lose.

If you lose, then you weren't part of the winning team.

Atalanta8 wrote:

James2 wrote:

Atalanta8 wrote:

Mikemk wrote:The only witch change I would support is changing them so they win if they're alive when the last town dies, since at that point, they've literally fulfilled their win condition of "Live to see the town lose."

Or if more evil alive than town casue 3 maf 1 town, can still lynch witch for the "funsies." I've seen it happen. It's BS.

Being salty about losing is not a valid reason for changing game mechanics.

It's not being salty that you lost. It's being salty becasue in all sense and purposes you win but then some assholes decide that it'd be fun if you don't get to win after all because it doesn't effect their win. 100% this is a valid reason to change game mechanics. Lynching witch as "funsies" should at the very least be a report-able offense which results in a ban.

As I said, being salty about losing is not a valid reason for changing game mechanics, or banning people.

Make hanging a eitch over the last townie,or NK,a punishable offense,since it just makes the game longer for anyone?

If you can't secure your win via normal game mechanisms, then it's fair that you lose.

James2 wrote:If you can't secure your win via normal game mechanisms, then it's fair that you lose.

I don't understand why you're so dense. The game mechanics change all the time hence the suggestion forum. If you are witch and alive with 3 maf and one town, you have by all sense and purposes won that game. There is nothing you can do about the game mechanics if maf decides they want to lynch you for no reason whatsoever.

If you just say that it's just being salty then you have to be able to say what can witch do in that situation to not be hung. There has to be a way out for witch if it's simple game mechanics, so go on, I'm looking forward to your answer.

Game mechanics should be changed when there is a valid reason for changing them. For example, Disguiser used to have negative utility (its ability was harmful to itself), so it was changed. It also used to be the case that Executioners, Jesters, and Survivors would draw in the event of a draw, even if they fulfilled their goal. This was changed since it added effectively added an ad hoc condition to their wincon. OTOH, the witch is a neutral non-suicidal role, there's absolutely no reason why it should be able to win if its goal is accomplished while its dead. Their is some validity to the argument that the witch should win if she lives to see the town wiped out (though I disagree with it for the reasons I explained earlier), but that doesn't hold if there are still living townies. There are circumstances where the town can still win as a minority, so the game should never consider the town beaten while it still has living members.

As far as how to avoid losing in that situation, there are always going to be some games that are unwinnable for reasons beyond your control. Your personal goal as a ToS player shouldn't be to win every single game (since it's beyond your power), but to increase your winrate. In the situation under discussion, you can do this by:

1. Trying to keep two evil factions alive, so they can't turn on you without imperiling their own win.
2. Deny a reaction. The main reason people hang witches at end game is to get an angry reaction. If you have an affect of not caring about the outcome of that particular game, you're less likely to be targeted.