Flake wrote:The most unfair aspect about Witch is having no incentive to not out information they have collected (often helping the Town massively, usually by outing evil players) once dead. While allowing the Witch to win with evils while dead seems like a logical option which remedies many unfair instances (including the main one which I previously stated), it should be noted that many new unfair elements would arise, including all examples similar to what Shyyster gave.
The most simple change to Witch which is objectively effective in decreasing unfair elements involved in my opinion would be to have the Witch's last will not flip upon death. This means that the main form of communication from the now dead Witch and the public has disappeared, and thus the information they have gained cannot be communicated to the public through Last Wills. There is really no loss in making the Witch's last will not flip upon death, since her win chance is not affected by information she is giving out. There are other more situational instances in which the Witch could convey their information to the public when dead, including through an alive Medium, through a dead Medium via seance, or through a resurrected player, though these seem more tricky to fix without detrimental effects in other aspects.
Shyyster wrote:So a witch that dies D2 by lynching or being executed N2 should be given a win after evils manage to win without them? Sounds unfair.
shapesifter13 wrote:If this happens the witch would likely get sizable nerfs. She has roughly a 50% win rate currently.
Atalanta8 wrote:shapesifter13 wrote:If this happens the witch would likely get sizable nerfs. She has roughly a 50% win rate currently.
I most definitely don't win 50% with witch.
Mikemk wrote:Atalanta8 wrote:shapesifter13 wrote:If this happens the witch would likely get sizable nerfs. She has roughly a 50% win rate currently.
I most definitely don't win 50% with witch.
I win, by my estimation, about 85% of games I play as Witch, definitely the easiest role by a long shot IMO. I'm shocked that the average is only 50%. Guess it depends on the player.
Flake wrote:There is really no loss in making the Witch's last will not flip upon death, since her win chance is not affected by information she is giving out.
James2 wrote:Flake wrote:There is really no loss in making the Witch's last will not flip upon death, since her win chance is not affected by information she is giving out.
Removing the witch's will would be a drastic nerf. It's one of the main things deterring the mafia from killing the witch.
Flake wrote:it is also true that Mafia/NK killing Witch in many of these circumstances is fair.
Flake wrote:Also, the incentive of doing this would not be to give Mafia a buff, and you know that.
Shyyster wrote:So a witch that dies D2 by lynching or being executed N2 should be given a win after evils manage to win without them? Sounds unfair.
shapesifter13 wrote:If this happens the witch would likely get sizable nerfs. She has roughly a 50% win rate currently.
Flake wrote:James2 wrote:Flake wrote:Also, the incentive of doing this would not be to give Mafia a buff, and you know that.
The only argument you've presented for this idea is that it would buff the mafia (and NK) by preventing the witch from outing them. If the mafia feel the need to kill the witch, they should have to bear the potential consequences of doing so. Increasing mafia win rates is not a valid argument for imposing a disability on the witch.
The argument I've presented is that the unfair elements that can come about by Witch outing Mafia/NK are far more massive than the unfair elements that can come about from Mafia/NK situationally having slightly more incentive to kill the Witch than if she did not have a Last Will. Again, I never once argued that "increasing mafia win rates" is my argument for imposing a very slight nerf on the Witch; making the Witch significantly more fair is my argument for imposing a very slight nerf on the Witch.
BasicFourLife wrote:You can start by getting rid of her Consig ability, it’s retarded for her to have it in the first place.
Flake wrote:James2 wrote:The possibility of the mafia or NK being caught and exposed by another faction is not an "unfair element".
For Witch it is in many cases.
Anyar wrote: they might as well leave as soon as they're in the grave instead of staying and potentially giving info to Meds out of spite.
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests