New Suggested Mode for rotating gamemodes: Reverse VIP

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New Suggested Mode for rotating gamemodes: Reverse VIP

Postby NasubiNori » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:03 pm

Reverse rivals didn't pan out, so how about reverse VIP?

One player would be randomly selected to be the "Most Hated Person" (MHP) (Placeholder name)
The goal of all other players is to figure out who this player is and lynch them. All players in the game win when this happens regardless of faction and even when dead.
Normal factional victories may or may not be allowed depending on playtesting, but making roles normally opposed to each other work together could be a draw for the gamemode. MHP may be allowed to get a factional victory if they need a buff, but should always block other players of their faction win. (so town wins but there's only one winner listed)

The MHP would still have their regular role and everything that comes with it. They will see their name in a box like VIP/lovers, but nobody else will see it.
In addition, they are given invincible defense (they do not rampage and kill visitors, they just cannot be killed at night) and a special attack. (powerful or unstoppable, Rampaging optional, playtesting pending) This attack could be utilized by clicking a new button at the top of the screen that works similar to the sun icon, but at night.
The attack may or may not be an astral attack, thus detectablity by lookout/tracker is optional depending on playtesting.

The big giveaway is the invincible defense, so roles like jailor or arsonist can find them 100% accurately. Roles with powerful attack could also be useful since no role has a passive powerful defense, it is given by other roles. Even SKs can help by finding out who has basic defense so they can later be tested by an arso.

RET could be included since if they revive it puts at least 1 confirmed not MHP person alive in the round, since MHP can't die or the game ends. If a doc heals someone that is evidence that the person healed is not MHP if their attack is only powerful.
Hex master creates a time limit, if the MHP is not coven they will be outed if the Hex master gets off a hex bomb.

Rolelist Options:
Roles with powerful or higher attack:
Arso, WW, Jugg, PB/Pest, Pirate, jester , Medusa, Hex Master, Necromancer, BG, Trapper, VET, jailor
Roles that are just useful:
Ret, Medium, doc, Mayor (lookout, Trapper, Tracker if the MHP does not have astral attacks), SK for detecting basic defense
EXE has basic defense, and can buy a EXE/jester MHP an excuse if they are attacked by SK, Survivor is another similar option.
Amnesiac can remember dead roles as usual. Transporter could cause a little chaos.

Proposed Role list 1: Intended to be the start point for play testing
MHP has powerful attacks and astral attacks
Jailor, Ret, medium, medium, doc, doc, Medusa, Hex Master, Necromancer, Arso, WW, Pirate, SK, PB, Jester/EXE

Proposed Role list 2: If MHP needs a buff
MHP has unstoppable attacks and astral attacks
Jailor, Ret, Medium, Medium, Medium, Medusa, Hex Master, Necromancer, Arso, WW, Pirate, PB, SK, Jester/EXE, Jester/EXE
Doctors removed because they can't heal the attacks anymore, further buffing can be done by removing roles with powerful attacks and replacing them with mediums, jesters/EXE, or SKs.

Proposed Role list 3: If MHP needs a nerf
MHP has Powerful regular attacks that can be seen by lookout/tracker
Jailor, Ret, Medium, Doc, Lookout, Tracker, Medusa, Hex Master, Necromancer, Arso, WW, Pirate, SK, PB, Jester/EXE
Further Nerfing can be done by removing medium and jester and replacing them with lookout, tracker or any other more active role.

Most of the mechanics are already in place in some form or another, and there is lots of room for tweaking the balance of the mode. The biggest con I can think of is that it is a completely defined role list (which some people don't like), but that is necessary to ensure that every role in the game is able to participate in the objective of finding the MHP in some way.

I am very much in favor of disallowing all wins until MHP is dead, and then everyone wins together.
I think the reason rivals was so unpopular compared to the other modes is because the other modes are pro teamwork where instead rivals splits your team and makes you doubt your allies. Lovers is the favorite because it puts roles into new teams that aren't possible anywhere else.
Allowing 14 people to work together when they would normally be enemies would be a huge draw I think, and the one lone person has huge buffs and advantages that are normally reserved for the most powerful roles and are hard to get.

Thoughts?

Also, can anyone think of a better name for this? MHP mode is terrible.

Edit:
Aviel mentioned a 1v1 with mayor below, which makes perfect sense.
A medium could be replaced with a mayor in the role lists above, and the Doctors swapped with BGs as long as the MHPs attack is powerful. Mayor is kind of a hardcounter to invincible immunity. The mayor would have to be forbidden from being the MHP though.
Last edited by NasubiNori on Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:16 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: New Suggested Mode for rotating gamemodes: Reverse VIP

Postby Aviel » Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:03 pm

Funny thing is, I was thinking the EXACT same thing today, with a few differences.

MY version of it:

New possible ToS game mode:

The Hated Man (Reverse VIP Mode)
One person in the game is dubbed as “The Hated Man”, replacing the role that person would’ve been, no one will be told who he/she is.

The Hated Man automatically gets Invincible Defense, regardless of what their role is, and no faction can win with him.

The role list will be the same as Rivals mode, but an executioner is guaranteed in the game.

If The Hated Man is lynched, everyone alive wins.

The Hated Man will automatically win in any 1v1 scenario (Stalemate detector) unless it’s a mayor, which will lynch him of course. (Unless a Jester was lynched that day, which could haunt the mayor.)

The Hated Man cannot replace a Mayor, Sheriff, or Jailor.

If only 1 faction is left with The Hated Man, they will all lose and he will win.

A Sheriff can investigate him, if he does he will appear as The Hated Man, making the Sheriff a critical role in this game mode. (But this could also be used for other’s advantages, it could be a great executioner strategy.)

It could also be called “The Hunted Man”.
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You should see Reverse VIP mode, it's really cool.

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Re: New Suggested Mode for rotating gamemodes: Reverse VIP

Postby NasubiNori » Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:58 am

Aviel wrote:One person in the game is dubbed as “The Hated Man”, replacing the role that person would’ve been, no one will be told who he/she is.


BMG might be reluctant to add a new role that can only be found in one gamemode and nowhere else. They also have to code the new role.
The advantage of just giving a regular role new abilities is that they don't have to lie or come up with a cover for themselves when regarding their role. They only have to worry about the invincible immunity, or maybe a tracker/lookout.

Aviel wrote:The role list will be the same as Rivals mode, but an executioner is guaranteed in the game.

Just recycling the rivals rolelist also has it's own problems too, since it has town with an overwhelming majority at the start to compensate for 2 townies getting each other as rivals. That rolelist is designed to work with the specific mechanics of rivals.

Aviel wrote:The Hated Man will automatically win in any 1v1 scenario (Stalemate detector) unless it’s a mayor, which will lynch him of course. (Unless a Jester was lynched that day, which could haunt the mayor.)

The Hated Man cannot replace a Mayor, Sheriff, or Jailor.

Mayor might be a good thing to add to my rolelists though, but it might have to be restricted so they can't be the one picked. Mayor is kind of a hard counter to invincible immunity now that I think about it, assuming they manage to live to the end. They would be good to pair with doctors/BG/crusader as long as the "hated man" has an attack of powerful only.

Aviel wrote:A Sheriff can investigate him, if he does he will appear as The Hated Man, making the Sheriff a critical role in this game mode. (But this could also be used for other’s advantages, it could be a great executioner strategy.)


It might be too east for them to be found if they can be detected directly by a sheriff, but it certainty is an option if extreme nerfs are necessary.

Aviel wrote:It could also be called “The Hunted Man”.


I like the name "hunted". Hunted mode. Hunted for the box name. Way better then what I had.
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Re: New Suggested Mode for rotating gamemodes: Reverse VIP

Postby Aviel » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:00 am

Proposed Role list 1: Intended to be the start point for play testing
MHP has powerful attacks and astral attacks
Jailor, Ret, medium, medium, doc, doc, Medusa, Hex Master, Necromancer, Arso, WW, Pirate, SK, PB, Jester/EXE

Proposed Role list 2: If MHP needs a buff
MHP has unstoppable attacks and astral attacks
Jailor, Ret, Medium, Medium, Medium, Medusa, Hex Master, Necromancer, Arso, WW, Pirate, SK, Jester/EXE, Jester/EXE
Doctors removed because they can't heal the attacks anymore, further buffing can be done by removing roles with powerful attacks and replacing them with mediums, jesters/EXEs, or SKs.

Proposed Role list 3: If MHP needs a nerf
MHP has Powerful regular attacks that can be seen by lookout/tracker
Jailor, Ret, Medium, Doc, Lookout, Tracker, Medusa, Hex Master, Necromancer, Arso, WW, Pirate, PB, Jester/EXE
Further Nerfing can be done by removing medium and jester and replacing them with lookout, tracker or any other more active role.


I do suppose the rivals mode would be different, to compensate I was thinking more something like this: (Based off of your choices)

Jailor
Medium
Doctor
Town Support
Town Support
Town Support
Coven Leader
Medusa
Random Coven
Arsonist
Executioner
Pirate
Plaguebearer
Serial Killer
Neutral Benign

Why you ask? Here's why in my opinion:

The Hunted Man will need claim space, as it's very likely that the coven may even give up who they are just to find him. Hence the Random Town Support and 1 Neutral Benign. Having PB and Arso are VERY valuable, as they could easily find the The Hunted Man due to his invincible defense. (I would be very interested to see what would happen in a Pestilence vs. The Hunted Man.) As I said in the parentheses, the Pestilence could be a punching bag for the The Hunted Man, as they may think the Pestilence is the The Hunted Man. Especially if the Jailor jailed them. Having a few coven can narrow down who's the The Hunted Man. Simple to say, the main reason I added random roles is so that the The Hunted Man can have claim space, assuming he's a role that's evil, as they may lynch him for being evil. However, it turns out he's the The Hunted Man. A possible thing that could happen is that the The Hunted Man is a TOWN member. Which would make the game very interesting. As of now though, I think it sounds like a good game mode.

PS: If you want to talk about one role for one gamemode. Does the Guardian Angel come into mind????? (Only appears in rivals and VIP mode)
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You should see Reverse VIP mode, it's really cool.

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Re: New Suggested Mode for rotating gamemodes: Reverse VIP

Postby NasubiNori » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:45 pm

Aviel wrote:The Hunted Man will need claim space, as it's very likely that the coven may even give up who they are just to find him. Hence the Random Town Support and 1 Neutral Benign. Having PB and Arso are VERY valuable, as they could easily find the The Hunted Man due to his invincible defense. (I would be very interested to see what would happen in a Pestilence vs. The Hunted Man.) As I said in the parentheses, the Pestilence could be a punching bag for the The Hunted Man, as they may think the Pestilence is the The Hunted Man. Especially if the Jailor jailed them. Having a few coven can narrow down who's the The Hunted Man. Simple to say, the main reason I added random roles is so that the The Hunted Man can have claim space, assuming he's a role that's evil, as they may lynch him for being evil. However, it turns out he's the The Hunted Man. A possible thing that could happen is that the The Hunted Man is a TOWN member. Which would make the game very interesting. As of now though, I think it sounds like a good game mode.


If the hunted is a new role then they absolutely do need claimspace, which is why in my proposal they have extra abilities in addition to their normal role rather then a new role altogether.
If they still have their original role from the rolelist and can perform the functions of that role then they don't need to lie about their role. They need to hide that they are not actually hunting for the hunted and that they have invincible immunity. I have specified every role in the rolelist to ensure that every role can contribute in some way to the objective of finding the hunted. (any everyone playing can have fun) Although if random roles were to be used TS would make the most sense. I don't see the point of adding a NB since survivor and GA have their victory conditions overwritten (so they might be boring to play as), although anme could be ok to add as itself.

Example 1: SK is hunted, they need to seem like they are trying to find people that are immune for arso to try burning without getting enough suspicion cast upon themselves to be doused/executed as well.

Example 2: Hunted is a medium. They need to avoid being attacked at all because they have no passive immunity. They need to pass on info from the dead, but if they neglect to pass any on about themselves they risk getting outed by another medium or a ret.

Example 3: Hunted is medusa. They need to get their fellow coven killed without getting attacked themselves, while not seeming to be too sus about it.. If Hex master get off a hex bomb and the game dosen't end it's clear one of the coven is hunted and they can be lynched.

Since I want everyone to win together once the hunted is lynched, I expect coven or other evils to out themselves in this mode since everyone is actually on the same team. This is part of the draw for this idea, roles needing to find new ways to work together that are normally enemies. The game play is completely different here and a lot of it relies on scumreading who is not being a team player. Extensive playtesting will be necessary to balance the abilities of the hunted and determine the exact rolelist.

Aviel wrote:PS: If you want to talk about one role for one gamemode. Does the Guardian Angel come into mind????? (Only appears in rivals and VIP mode)


GA can appear on any role list that contains neutral benign, random neutral, or any. The "hunted man" role can only appear in this specific gamemode that has altered mechanics.
Otherwise it just becomes a new OP neutral killing/chaos role. If it were permitted to spawn in other gamemodes from an any slot it would have to bring the mechanics with it, which would be rather unfair to players that entered a game not expecting or wanting it.
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Re: New Suggested Mode for rotating gamemodes: Reverse VIP

Postby Aviel » Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:18 am

GA can appear on any role list that contains neutral benign, random neutral, or any. The "hunted man" role can only appear in this specific gamemode that has altered mechanics.
Otherwise it just becomes a new OP neutral killing/chaos role. If it were permitted to spawn in other gamemodes from an any slot it would have to bring the mechanics with it, which would be rather unfair to players that entered a game not expecting or wanting it.


I have 2 things:

1. If in a coven custom/coven all any game mode the hated man appears, maybe it could alert everyone in the game of this? Something like this: "Something is fueling you with pure hatred. It must be The Hunted Man!" (If it were a role) Otherwise maybe it could simply not be possible in any mode other than custom.

2. Also, while GA *can* appear in any NB, this is only in coven custom or coven all any. So it would be just as exclusive as The Hunted Man (If he could show up in Custom) tbh.

Otherwise, he wouldn't be OP, since it's basically a pestilence that if killed everyone wins. And you don't see pestilence wins that often do you? I don't, so it's not necessarily an OP killer. Responding to your role responses, it does make sense to replace the NB with Amnesiac. Any who that is all I have to respond with.
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Re: New Suggested Mode for rotating gamemodes: Reverse VIP

Postby qwertyuiopl » Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:51 am

How about instead of it being someone everyone hates, they've been possessed by some sort of spirit? (Maybe another horsemen of the apocalypse? Death, war, famine)
Just my flavour idea for this instead of someone everyone just inexplicably hates. It also explains why they have defense/attack/whatever.
I think it would be more fun to have faction wins enabled than not, personally. Otherwise it's a 1v14.
Could the mhp be of any alignment? Would they be told what their role is, or just that they are mhp? And could they use the night ability they would have been able to use if they weren't mhp alongside killing someone?
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Re: New Suggested Mode for rotating gamemodes: Reverse VIP

Postby Aviel » Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:21 am

Could the mhp be of any alignment? Would they be told what their role is, or just that they are mhp? And could they use the night ability they would have been able to use if they weren't mhp alongside killing someone?


The MHP, if only one of the factions is left alive, will win and the last alive faction will lose (Except for survivors and successful executioners, GA's, pirates, and Jesters), and the MHP will win.

They would know they are MHP, as it would be their role.

As I said, if it were a role it'd be much better.

If they decide to make it, like rivals or lovers, where the MHP is simply a name.

My first answer will remain the same.

The MHP and him alone would know he is the MHP via a little text box like in VIP, lovers, or rivals, and a text notification will tell them.

They would be able to use their night ability regardless of their role.

Definitely didn't make certain texts unnecessarily large out of bias.
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Re: New Suggested Mode for rotating gamemodes: Reverse VIP

Postby NasubiNori » Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:50 pm

qwertyuiopl wrote:How about instead of it being someone everyone hates, they've been possessed by some sort of spirit? (Maybe another horsemen of the apocalypse? Death, war, famine)


I like this idea, sounds cool. And it makes sense since we have pest already but nothing else. Death seems the obvious candidate.

qwertyuiopl wrote:Otherwise it's a 1v14.
Could the mhp be of any alignment? Would they be told what their role is, or just that they are mhp? And could they use the night ability they would have been able to use if they weren't mhp alongside killing someone?


14 v 1 is why the person is so OP right from the start of the game, while pest has to power up from PB first.
They could be any role from the role list, and their role functions as normal. Their special attack is accessed from a button similar to the sun icon during the day, except at night. ( a moon icon?) No roles have such a night button, so it does not conflict with any other role mechanics. They get a box on the side only they can see that shows that they are "the MHP" like lovers shows your lover or VIP shows the VIP. Aside from this button and the box, their screen would be identical to their normal roles screen.

@ Aviel

I still disagree with the idea of making this a new role.
If factional victories/non standard victories for GA/etc are enabled this literally just becomes a new unique neutral killing role. ALL neutral killing must be killed since they are already their own faction so there is literally no difference to just adding a new NK. If you are going to allow factional victories then these other roles should not be able to win either since that's the whole point of the idea.

I am trying to propose a new gamemode, not a new role. Specifically a gamemode that operates with unique game mechanics that cannot found anywhere else.

If they added a role to give these abilities to they would also have to add a new alignment that can't spawn from any so it can't appear in other gamemodes, since a role brings all of it's mechanics with it. It's just a lot of extra work that is unnecessary to add for a a new gamemode when they can just add the same mechanics to a preexisting role.

As a further point, it makes the person that gets the role even more OP by having their original role in addition to the new mechanics. Someone with SK as their regular role effectively has 2 Kills per Night. A WW get to rampage every full moon, pirate can plunder, etc. This extreme OPness is countered balanced by the fact that it is literally 14 v 1. There is plenty of room for fine tuning balance by adjusting the mechanics and rolelist.
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Re: New Suggested Mode for rotating gamemodes: Reverse VIP

Postby Aviel » Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:00 am

The thing with if you don't make it a role is that you don't have any way of knowing if they are the MHP. So it would be a random lynch fest otherwise. Unless you were a jailor, jester, or arsonist who attacked him but he survived. And there's no pestilence. However that's very unlikely, I suppose we could find strategies for this. However, it definitely needs some fine-tuning.
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Re: New Suggested Mode for rotating gamemodes: Reverse VIP

Postby NasubiNori » Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:42 am

Aviel wrote:The thing with if you don't make it a role is that you don't have any way of knowing if they are the MHP. So it would be a random lynch fest otherwise. Unless you were a jailor, jester, or arsonist who attacked him but he survived. And there's no pestilence. However that's very unlikely, I suppose we could find strategies for this. However, it definitely needs some fine-tuning.


The giveaway is the invincible immunity. That is why I included so many roles with powerful attacks in my rolelists (jailor/jester/WW/arso/medusa/Pest/pirate), since no roles can survive them normally (except Pest). Plaguebearer (Pest) is included in all of my rolelists, it just uses the shorthand of PB.

I also listed the possibility of including trackability via tracker/lookout depending on whether the special attack is astral/passive or not. Allowing tracker/lookout to find them is better then simply letting a sheriff find them directly because there is more luck involved (lookout would be more random then tracker, so I would start with lookout if I needed to nerf). It would be too easy to find the MHP if a sheriff could just out them as usual.


Remember, My ideal scenario is a 14 v 1 gamemode that crosses faction lines. How easy would it be to win as SK in a game that was you v 14 town? Or even as PB? Better to go OP on the MHP then have it too weak and they always leave N1. Then the gamemode will just die like rivals did.
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Re: New Suggested Mode for rotating gamemodes: Reverse VIP

Postby Aviel » Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:45 pm

NasubiNori wrote:Plaguebearer (Pest) is included in all of my rolelists, it just uses the shorthand of PB.


I know, I just said that to say that having a pestilence could make him a red herring for the MHP.

Continuing....

The tracker/lookout DO visit their targets, and as such will die if the target visits someone with a rampage ability, so unless the MHP has a rampage ability, it's not possible for them to find him that way.

Now, when I say it's just him, that's not quite it, as long as only ONE faction is alive and he is alive, he will win while the whole faction loses. This makes people have to strategize. So it could be a 1 v 7 and he could win, assuming that was all one faction.
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Re: New Suggested Mode for rotating gamemodes: Reverse VIP

Postby Joacgroso » Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:56 pm

Jailors shouldn't appear in this gamemode imo, since the game would be over as soon as they jail the Hunted. Everyone would trust the jailor since he can't be the Hunted. Also, I think the Hunted should have a rampaging attack.
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Re: New Suggested Mode for rotating gamemodes: Reverse VIP

Postby NasubiNori » Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:14 pm

Aviel wrote:The tracker/lookout DO visit their targets, and as such will die if the target visits someone with a rampage ability, so unless the MHP has a rampage ability, it's not possible for them to find him that way.


I'm sorry I guess I didn't make it clear, I never intended the MHP to have rampage at either their home or the person they attacks home. I only meant that they could not be killed at night by any attacks (invincible immunity) but not that they killed their attackers/visitors automatically (rampage). I guess it wasn't immediately obvious that these are 2 different abilities (3 if you count both types of rampage separately) since the only example of invincible immunity we have RN is Pest. I'll go back and clarify my original post.

So MHP could get attacked by WW or be tracked and not kill the person that visited them.
And the special attack only kills one person like SK and not a lookout that may be watching, and might be healable depending on whether it is powerful or unstoppable.

Factional victory could be enabled in some capacity depending on playtesting. I just would prefer the everyone wins together idea for teamwork reasons since I think the other 2 modes were successful because they were team focused in a way that can only be found in those modes.
Rivals was very divisive and split town up if 2 rivals were both town, it's the complete opposite of the other 2 modes and may account for it's failure.

Joacgroso wrote:Jailors shouldn't appear in this gamemode imo, since the game would be over as soon as they jail the Hunted. Everyone would trust the jailor since he can't be the Hunted. Also, I think the Hunted should have a rampaging attack.


I never said the jailor couldn't be hunted. ;)
If you are worried that being jailed outs them because they can't use their special attack, we could just make it so that they always have access to it, even in jail. I also have used the strat of not attacking as mafioso in games where there are multipal roleblockers to cause mislynches, which could be used here. (don't attempt if there are TIs around except for spy) The amount of confusion this can cause in town is glorious.

Mayor is a counter to invincible night immunity, so it is the only possible exception since then they could just vote off whoever during the day late game. A mayor hunted is not just invincible at night but is effectively unvotable as long as the mayor knows to vote as soon as possible during voting phase.
Revived townies are also not hunted because they obviously aren't invincible.

Hunted could have rampageing attacks if playtesting shows that they still have a very hard time winning even after other buffs have been applied. That's part of the reason why I have so many different variables to consider and possible combinations of mechanics listed, so BMG already has some ideas for playtesting if they want it.
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Re: New Suggested Mode for rotating gamemodes: Reverse VIP

Postby Aviel » Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:15 am

NasubiNori wrote:I'm sorry I guess I didn't make it clear, I never intended the MHP to have rampage at either their home or the person they attacks home. I only meant that they could not be killed at night by any attacks (invincible immunity) but not that they killed their attackers/visitors automatically (rampage). I guess it wasn't immediately obvious that these are 2 different abilities (3 if you count both types of rampage separately) since the only example of invincible immunity we have RN is Pest. I'll go back and clarify my original post.


Then just say he has complete night immunity... ;-;

NasubiNori wrote:A mayor hunted is not just invincible at night but is effectively unvotable as long as the mayor knows to vote as soon as possible during voting phase.


Personally I don't think he should be able to be the hunted man because of his voting power, it would just be almost too easy, especially in the late game.
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Re: New Suggested Mode for rotating gamemodes: Reverse VIP

Postby Joacgroso » Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:53 pm

Aren't chaos modes suposed to be unbalanced? I don't really think it would be a problem. Also, will the hunted be able to kill each night, or he will only have 1 kill?
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Re: New Suggested Mode for rotating gamemodes: Reverse VIP

Postby NasubiNori » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:35 pm

Aviel wrote:Then just say he has complete night immunity... ;-;


The invincible night immunity has always only referred to whether or not you can be killed by a certain level of attack. It goes in with the defense tiers you can access by clicking on the rolecards. Rampaging isn't a part of defense tiers but is a separate ability, and comes in 2 types.
WW (that attacks), Jugg Lv 3, and Pest have type 1 where they rampage at the house of the person that they are visiting.
WW (that stays home), Veteran on alert, and Pest have type 2 where they rampage at their own home.

Pest has both types of rampage AND invincible immunity by default, which I guess is why people get confused and think the rampaging is part of the invincible immunity when it isn't, Because pest is the only role with invincibility. I hope my change in the first post clears this up. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Aviel wrote:Personally I don't think he should be able to be the hunted man because of his voting power, it would just be almost too easy, especially in the late game.


I completely agree, Hunted mayor too OP.

A hunted mayor is not completely unbeatable either though. People could just start lynching revealed mayors D2 and have the ret revive them, so it could become meta that it's impossible to win as hunted mayor as well. Any townie that dies and is revived is confirmed not hunted, so someone refusing to be lynched and get revived is incredibly suspicious.

Joacgroso wrote:Aren't chaos modes suposed to be unbalanced? I don't really think it would be a problem. Also, will the hunted be able to kill each night, or he will only have 1 kill?


Special attack has unlimited uses. If the hunted got medium it would be hard to kill off everyone before being caught with a KPN of 0.
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Re: New Suggested Mode for rotating gamemodes: Reverse VIP

Postby Aviel » Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:52 pm

NasubiNori wrote: The invincible night immunity has always only referred to whether or not you can be killed by a certain level of attack. It goes in with the defense tiers you can access by clicking on the rolecards. Rampaging isn't a part of defense tiers but is a separate ability, and comes in 2 types.
WW (that attacks), Jugg Lv 3, and Pest have type 1 where they rampage at the house of the person that they are visiting.
WW (that stays home), Veteran on alert, and Pest have type 2 where they rampage at their own home.

Pest has both types of rampage AND invincible immunity by default, which I guess is why people get confused and think the rampaging is part of the invincible immunity when it isn't, Because pest is the only role with invincibility. I hope my change in the first post clears this up. Sorry for the misunderstanding.


Oh, I wasn't confusing the Rampaging with Invincible Immunity, I was mainly trying to discern whether or not you meant the hunted man would rampage with type 1 or type 2 or both. If he had type 2 he'd be fairly easy to rat out as the game continued since anyone who visited him would die. Anywho that's all I have to say, unless someone has something else to debate.

And as for chaos modes being unbalanced, technically they don't HAVE to be unbalanced, they just aren't as traditional or use different mechanics than the vanilla game modes.
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Re: New Suggested Mode for rotating gamemodes: Reverse VIP

Postby Soulshade55r » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:05 am

There should be a time limit if the hated stays there for 6 days or so then they auto win
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Re: New Suggested Mode for rotating gamemodes: Reverse VIP

Postby NasubiNori » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:28 pm

Soulshade55r wrote:There should be a time limit if the hated stays there for 6 days or so then they auto win


6 days is a little short imo...

The hated can kill every night, and trying to kill people and failing is the easiest way to out them. I think there will be enough killing that games don't go on for too long.

Could be a possibility if playtesting shows every game is a marathon.
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Re: New Suggested Mode for rotating gamemodes: Reverse VIP

Postby Aviel » Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:35 am

NasubiNori wrote:The hated can kill every night, and trying to kill people and failing is the easiest way to out them.


Well, if there's a lot of NK in the game, the Hated Person could be fairly disguised if they didn't have powerful offense+.
So arsonists/jailor would be MVP in this game.
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Re: New Suggested Mode for rotating gamemodes: Reverse VIP

Postby simpson210 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:43 am

I really like this idea, But what I would do is make it so literally anyone who visits the MHP will die and have their last will removed, with the equivalent of an unstoppable attack and they won't be able to talk to the medium or have their role revealed to town.

It'll give the town some sort of motivation to get a move on in deducing who the MHP could be over just randomly lynching people and asking "Ok who has leads" at the start of each day and then everyone being silent.

Sure, that's horribly overpowered, But it's chaos. Nobody cares.
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Re: New Suggested Mode for rotating gamemodes: Reverse VIP

Postby NasubiNori » Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:33 am

simpson210 wrote:I really like this idea, But what I would do is make it so literally anyone who visits the MHP will die and have their last will removed, with the equivalent of an unstoppable attack and they won't be able to talk to the medium or have their role revealed to town.

It'll give the town some sort of motivation to get a move on in deducing who the MHP could be over just randomly lynching people and asking "Ok who has leads" at the start of each day and then everyone being silent.

Sure, that's horribly overpowered, But it's chaos. Nobody cares.


This could be easily countered by simply announcing who you intend to visit the prior day in chat. If the person dies, then the MHP can be outed. By having more then one person do it at the same time, or test the same person back to back, you could confirm who the MHP is just by visiting in an orderly fashion.

Although the rotating gamemodes are classed as chaos, I feel they are pretty well balanced. I see plenty of wins from all sides. TBH, classic ranked is more skewed in terms of win rates since everyone is tryharding.
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Re: New Suggested Mode for rotating gamemodes: Reverse VIP

Postby Soulshade55r » Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:51 am

6days isnt short it's one person against the whole town
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