Ranked Elo Overhaul

Leave your suggestions about the game here!

Re: Elo Rework (PLEASE GIVE FEEDBACK AND/OR REVIEW!)

Postby ProfessorArceus » Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:10 pm

Flake wrote:
ProfessorArceus wrote:Faction elo gain/loss should not be different, as we have no recent statistics to say which faction is harder or easier to win as.

But faction win percentage measures EXACTLY how hard a faction is to win as... which can be measured VERY easily by the devs.

Unless you mean that it should not be different to the formula used in this rework and you're replying to Jackparrot? I can't really tell

Easily measured, yes, but you aren't a Dev. Why would you just assume faction winrates are so drastically different that it warrants such a change in formula? You don't know these things. It's best not to assume and leave the numbers in another section so the Devs can seen them as another suggestion.
I'm your average British fuckup.
Spoiler:
2:27, 'Fuck up Jeremy Corbyn' ~ The average YouTube comments section.

STRONG AND STABLE GOVERNMENT Y'ALL


FM Stuff
Spoiler: I'm not shameless.
User avatar
ProfessorArceus
Bodyguard
Bodyguard
 
Posts: 249
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2016 10:28 am
Location: At night, in your bed, at morning, in your closet

Re: Elo Rework (PLEASE GIVE FEEDBACK AND/OR REVIEW!)

Postby Flake » Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:39 pm

ProfessorArceus wrote:Easily measured, yes, but you aren't a Dev. Why would you just assume faction winrates are so drastically different that it warrants such a change in formula? You don't know these things. It's best not to assume and leave the numbers in another section so the Devs can seen them as another suggestion.

It's widely known that the NK faction has a significantly lower winrate than any other faction, and that alone warrants such a change in the formula.

This was also shown by statistics that are known for Ranked Practice 6 months ago where the same rolelist was used, and the NK win percentage was about 11%:

Town: 45.84% Mafia 44.63% SerialKiller: 11.09% Arsonist: 9.78% Werewolf: 13.34% Witch: 24.95% Executioner: 34.55% Jester: 24.34%


It is also likely lower for Ranked as it is, since there are better players in Ranked that are able to deal with NK more easily.

Over time, the changes in your overall Elo due to the addition or subtraction in Elo gain/loss will be negligible regardless, so there is literally no reason NOT to have it.

UzayAltay wrote:First , /Support .
Second , Add it a k factor . My suggestion is 1.5 or 2 for 0-1000 , 1 for 1000- 2400 and 0.5 over 2400 . The formula will like k * ( Your Formula ) It's Result

1) Easier to Gain ELO in Bronze Elo , so Players will easily Get out of Elo hell , If they are good .
2) Without this, ELO TIERS will be meaningless at one point , because of people can Gain Elo over 2900 or 3000 or more . At chess , there is something like that which starts at 2200 If I am not wrong , and there isn't a 2900 Player yet ( World Champion is between 2800-2900 Stage . )

Also , If I didn't miss , you didn't explain the status of Gaining ELO in replacement matches , If It Just keeped as a statistic , it can be better to lose All matches in Replacement Matches , so your Winrate became %0 , than With normal matches began , your winrate goes up very Fast . You should explain how much we gain/lose ELO in replacement Matches .

Thanks for supporting!

As for your first point - I was planning on implementing k factors soon, and I likely will.

Secondly, I have explained that. The "Approximate Elo score" would be used for 20 games after your 20th game, and you would be given that Elo. However, I plan on changing the formula so that this isn't necessary, but I have yet to figure out how.

Joacgroso wrote:Also, there should be exceptions to the night 1 k factor. For example people who died to vet/bg, bgs who died guarding, leavers, people who were revived, (vets who didn't alert?), etc.
Personally I think elo gains should depend of faction winrate. Otherwise, a NK win would worth the same as a town win, and that would be very unfair.

I think I've decided not to implement Elo changes for N1 deaths due to there being too many factors to consider, and it's far too complex. I'm already worried about how complex the system is, and I intend on simplifying it.
Last edited by Flake on Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
Flake
Consort
Consort
 
Posts: 1081
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:34 am
Location: England, UK

Re: Elo Rework (PLEASE GIVE FEEDBACK AND/OR REVIEW!)

Postby UzayAltay » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:51 am

Flake wrote:
ProfessorArceus wrote:Easily measured, yes, but you aren't a Dev. Why would you just assume faction winrates are so drastically different that it warrants such a change in formula? You don't know these things. It's best not to assume and leave the numbers in another section so the Devs can seen them as another suggestion.

It's widely known that the NK faction has a significantly lower winrate than any other faction, and that alone warrants such a change in the formula.

This was also shown by statistics that are known for Ranked Practice 6 months ago where the same rolelist was used, and the NK win percentage was about 11%:

Town: 45.84% Mafia 44.63% SerialKiller: 11.09% Arsonist: 9.78% Werewolf: 13.34% Witch: 24.95% Executioner: 34.55% Jester: 24.34%
It is much less in Ranked as NK as you said next sentence, about 50-40-10 .

It is also likely lower for Ranked as it is since there are better players in Ranked that are able to deal with NK more easily.

Over time, the changes in your overall Elo due to the addition or subtraction in Elo gain/loss will be negligible regardless, so there is literally no reason NOT to have it.

UzayAltay wrote:First , /Support .
Second , Add it a k factor . My suggestion is 1.5 or 2 for 0-1000 , 1 for 1000- 2400 and 0.5 over 2400 . The formula will like k * ( Your Formula ) It's Result

1) Easier to Gain ELO in Bronze Elo , so Players will easily Get out of Elo hell , If they are good .
2) Without this, ELO TIERS will be meaningless at one point , because of people can Gain Elo over 2900 or 3000 or more . At chess , there is something like that which starts at 2200 If I am not wrong , and there isn't a 2900 Player yet ( World Champion is between 2800 - 2900 Stage . )

Also , If I didn't miss , you didn't explain the status of Gaining ELO in replacement matches , If It Just keeped as a statistic , it can be better to lose All matches in Replacement Matches , so your Winrate became %0 , than With normal matches began , your winrate goes up very Fast . You should explain how much we gain/lose ELO in replacement Matches .

Thanks for supporting!

As for your first point - I was planning on implementing k factors soon, and I likely will.

Secondly, I have explained that. The "Approximate Elo score" would be used for 20 games after your 20th game, and you would be given that Elo. However, I plan on changing the formula so that this isn't necessary, but I have yet to figure out how.As I guess , I miss that .

Joacgroso wrote:Also, there should be exceptions to the night 1 k factor. For example people who died to vet/bg, bgs who died guarding, leavers, people who were revived, (vets who didn't alert?), etc.
Personally I think elo gains should depend of faction winrate. Otherwise, a NK win would worth the same as a town win, and that would be very unfair.

I think I've decided not to implement Elo changes for N1 deaths due to there being too many factors to consider, and it's far too complex. I'm already worried about how complex the system is, and I intend on simplifying it.
You can make that If you died Night 1 , You can Win/Lose half ELO ( k= k/2)

Answer in this colour . ! COLOUR EDITED !
Last edited by UzayAltay on Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
32-33 Spoiler: Town Games(19-23)

NFM 50,NFM51 ,NFM52 , 14D , 14 E , NFM 54 ,14H ( AF ) ,14G , NFM 55 , NFM 56 , 15C , NFM 57,NFM 58,15F,SFM45,16B , VFM36 , 16D , SFM 47 , VFM38 , NFM62 , 16G ,VFM 39,EpisodeXVII , 17B , 17C , VFM44 , 17D , 17F,18C,18D,18E,VFM55,VFM57,SFM64, 19C,VFM58, VFM59,19D,VFM60,SFM66,SFM67

Scum Games (13-10)

NFM 48 , NFM 49 , TFM 65 ,TFM 66 , Episode XV ,TFM68 ,VFM 34, NFM61 , VFM42 , SFM53 , VFM43,17E,VFM49,SFM60,CFM19,VFM54, EpisodeXIX, SFM63, 19E , 19F,VFM62,VFM63XX3
UzayAltay
[Forum Mafia XV] Winner
[Forum Mafia XV] Winner
 
Posts: 583
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 10:17 am

Re: Elo Rework (PLEASE GIVE FEEDBACK AND/OR REVIEW!)

Postby Flake » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:03 am

UzayAltay wrote:Answer in this colour .

Uh... I'll pass answering in a colour I can't read.
Flake
Consort
Consort
 
Posts: 1081
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:34 am
Location: England, UK

Re: Elo Rework

Postby Seththeking » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:48 am

I Honestly think the Elo Should be based on:
How many games you play
How you use your Role (Ex. sheriff who finds and lynches Mafia very fast)
And they should add an MVP given to the player of the winning faction who helped The most
Last edited by SpellChecker on Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Please don't send vibrant/obnoxiously bright colored messages
Image
User avatar
Seththeking
Retributionist
Retributionist
 
Posts: 337
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 2:03 pm

Re: Elo Rework

Postby FoxGames05 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:58 pm

Flake wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
THIS IS BEING MAJORLY UPDATED. THE REWORK BELOW WILL BE ENTIRELY DIFFERENT FROM THE FINAL REWORK, BUT THIS STILL GIVES A GENERAL IDEA OF HOW IT WILL WORK.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PLEASE give Feedback or even Review the rework if you would like. This took hours upon hours to make and optimize, so it would be really appreciated.

If you do not wish to read the entire post, which is understandable, refer to Section 1 and Section 9. These two sections give a general summary and a list of all the things this Elo rework does and doesn't do effectively.

I will add a poll when I am sure I have finished and it has been reviewed by a few others.

Also note that this is being updated over time, so there may be some mistakes or unfinished things.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
• The main section titles are given in bold capital letters and are BLUE.

• The main sections go from Section 1 to Section 9, and may be referred to throughout the post.

• The sub-section titles are given in bold normal lettering and are
Black.

• Important information is given in
Red.
• Important expressions or data is given in Italics. Then I'll Talk like this
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Section 1: SUMMARY - WHY AN ELO REWORK IS NECESSARY & GENERAL IDEA
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The current Elo system mainly rewards grinding games heavily as opposed to a high win percentage (more indicative of skill). So, I believe that the player win percentage should have a larger impact than it currently does. It also does not give larger Elo gains/losses for a lower amount of games played (which is necessary). For example, a player with 20 games played and a 80% win rate may be extremely good at the game, but with the Elo system in it's current state that would only get you about +100 Elo, which is not indicative of the player's true skill.

As such, I propose a new Elo system fixing "the grind". This new system would use win percentage as it's primary variable, but would still take into account the amount of games played (for example, a very low win % with only 20 games played should give more Elo than a very low win % with 100 games played since 100 games is a larger sample size).

In this rework, a mean win percentage, a standard deviation percentage, and all faction mean win percentages of the population will be used.

You will also be rewarded for having more games with factions of a lower mean population win rate (for example, Neutral Killing) and punished for having more games with factions of a higher mean population win rate (for example, Town).

The difference between Team Elo (minus yourself) and Opposing Elo will also be considered if you are Town or Mafia, but not Neutral Evil or Neutral Killing (see why in Section 3, 7th point).

Ranked Placement will require 20 games played rather than the current 10 to be given an Elo score, because it is a larger sample giving a more accurate Elo score than if the player were to only play 10 games.

The starting (and average) Elo will be set at 1500, and you will gain or lose an amount of Elo from 1500 based on how many standard deviations away from the mean you are, and also the amount of games you have played has some impact, so that too high or too low win % of a player by chance is taken into account. That is a really good idea! And Great reasoning
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Section 2: THE ELO GAIN/LOSS EQUATION
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Elo Gain/Loss = 80ln(2X-35) * (new(z) - old(z)) + 1/30*(TM)*(OE - TE) + 20*((AVG% - F%)/AVG%) I cut out all of the variable explanations so the reveiw would be shorter, but I do like the equation.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Section 3: NOTES
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
• The maximum amount of games recorded (X) is maxed at 200.

• It should also be noted that If a player is to reach 210 games played, only the last 200 games should be analysed (so the first 10 games do not count). This is known as the Rolling 200 games. This is so that the Elo is more indicative of the players skill in more recent games and so their current ability as opposed to their old ability, whether it be better or worse.

• The player is required to have played at least 20 Ranked games (placement games) to be given an Elo, so this equation is only for X>19. Since this equation is not for X<20, instead of gaining or losing Elo from game to game during your placement games, you will instead be given an Elo score on your 20th game using the formula 1500 + 80ln(X-17.5) * (z) + 20*((T)*((AVG% - T%)/AVG%) + (M)*((AVG% - M%)/AVG%) + (NK)*((AVG% - NK%)/AVG%) + (NE)*((AVG% - NE%)/AVG%)). Go to Section 6 for more information on this.

• The minimum total Elo score is 0.

• The maximum total Elo score has no set bound, but would be bounded somewhere. This bound is approximately equal to 1500 + 80ln(383-17.5) * (9.51515) = 5992, so around 6000 Elo. However, this requires a 100% win rate after 383 games, which is obviously impossible.

• The mean Elo score of any given player will be approximately the starting Elo, which is 1500 Elo.

• Differences in Opposing Team's Elo and Your Team's Elo (excluding you) are only considered if you are Town or Mafia. You are excluded from your own Team's average Elo score because if you are included and you have a high Elo, after many games you will be punished HEAVILY in terms of Elo, and if you are included and have a low Elo, after many games you will be rewarded HEAVILY in terms of Elo. As such, you must be excluded from the average of your own team's Elo score. This is why differences between opposing team's Elo and your team's Elo cannot be considered if you are Neutral Evil or Neutral Killing, because you must be excluded, but you are the ONLY member of that faction (if NE or NK). As such, differences in Opposing Team's Elo and Your Team's Elo (excluding you) are only considered if you are Town or Mafia.

• The z-score (z) is a value showing how well you perform compared to the population of Ranked. A win rate below the population mean Ranked win percentage will result in a negative z-score leading to less Elo, and a win percentage above the population mean Ranked win percentage will result in a positive z-score leading to more Elo.

• A z-score calculator showing the percentage bracket you are in can be found here: http://onlinestatbook.com/2/calculators ... _dist.html

• For example, a z-score of 2 means you are in the top 2.28% of the Ranked population in terms of Win Percentage.

• Estimate of population mean win percentage: 47.66666%

• Estimate of Town mean win percentage: 60%

• Estimate of Mafia mean win percentage: 35%

• Estimate of Neutral Evil mean win percentage: 30%

• Estimate of Neutral Killing mean win percentage: 5%

• Rough estimate of standard deviation: 5.5% (give or take 0.5%) Got It! All is in order
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Section 4: CAPS/RESTRICTIONS ON ELO GAINS/LOSSES
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
• Refer to Example 1 in Section 5 lower down for an explanation of the below restrictions/caps.

Also note that Restriction 1 has priority over Restriction 2. This basically means gives an order for the restrictions:

1) the usual formula (80ln(2X-35) * (new(z) - old(z)) + 1/30*(TM)*(OE - TE) + 20*((AVG% - F%)/AVG%)) should firstly be used.

2) If necessary (if 80ln(2X-35) * (new(z) - old(z)) = 0), use Restriction 1.

3) If necessary (if Elo change is less than 2 for a win or if Elo change is more than -2 for a loss), use Restriction 2.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Restriction 1
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
• If you gain 0 Elo from the first part of the formula (which will only happen with >200 games played), 80ln(2X-35) * (new(z) - old(z)), this part of the formula will be restricted to ±20 Elo depending on whether you win or lose (+20 for win, -20 for loss). The next parts of the formula, 1/30*(TM)*(OE - TE) + 20*((AVG% - F%)/AVG%), will still be used, and so the new Elo gain/loss will be:

±20 + 1/30*(TM)*(OE - TE) + 20*((AVG% - F%)/AVG%).

However, a NK or NE loss could give a very small Elo loss, or in very rare cases, a zero Elo gain or positive Elo gain for a loss. For example, -20 + 20*((0.5-0.04)/0.5) giving -1.6 Elo for an NK loss. To prevent these rare cases where Elo gain/loss is small/incorrect, we will cap the Elo for a loss such that it is always -2 or less, and we will cap the Elo for a win such that it will be always be +2 or more as shown below.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Restriction 2
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
• If you win a game, you will ALWAYS gain 2 or more Elo (capped).

• If you lose a game, you will ALWAYS lose 2 or more Elo (capped).
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Section 5: EXAMPLES OF ELO GAINS/LOSSES
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IMPORTANT: Example 1 (Town Win)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's say you win a game as Town. Your old winrate is 112/200 giving a z-score of around 1.51515, and your new winrate is 112/200 giving a z-score of around 1.51515.

NOTE: The new win rate is 112/200 because the 1st win out of the previous 200 games was also a win, so the overall winrate remains the same. If we were to have a win replace a loss, we would have a new win rate of 113/200, making the difference between z-scores much higher than usual and therefore the Elo gain is much higher. Vice versa for a loss replacing a win. However, wins replacing wins and losses replacing losses results in a far smaller Elo change due to the win rate remaining the same, and so the z-score remains the same. As such, the effects of a much higher Elo gain/loss when wins replace losses and losses replace wins is neutralised by the smaller Elo gain/loss when wins replace wins and losses replace losses.

The opposing team has a mean Elo of 1650 and your team (excluding you) has a mean Elo of 1600.

Assume that AVG% (Avg win % of all factions) = 0.4766666 and F% (Town win %) = 0.6

As a result, using the Elo gain/loss formula, 80ln(2X-35) * (new(z) - old(z)) + 1/30*(TM)*(OE - TE) + 20*((AVG% - F%)/AVG%), we have:

80ln(2(200)-35) * (1.51515 - 1.51515) [i][note that this = 0] + 1/30*(1)*(1650 - 1600) + 20*((0.4766666 - 0.6)/0.4766666)[/i] = -3.5 = -3.5 Elo loss (for a win?!)

However, using necessary Elo restrictions as shown before, we see that this is not the true Elo difference in this case.

Using Restriction 1, making the first part of the formula, 80ln(2(200)-35) * (1.51515 - 1.51515), equal to +20, we have:

20 + 1/30*(1)*(1650 - 1600) + 20*((0.4766666 - 0.6)/0.4766666) = 16.5 = 17 Elo gain. Much better.

However, if we had a significantly higher in Elo in your team than the opposing team, for example, we might get a very low or even negative Elo gain as a result. For example:

20 + 1/30*(1000 - 2000) + 20*((0.4766666 - 0.6)/0.55) = -18.5 = 19 Elo loss.

This is extremely unlikely though, since a difference in Elo of 1000 between Town and Mafia would basically never happen. However, in these unlikely cases, we use the restriction that says that you must gain at least 2 Elo gain for a win. As such, we will have a +2 Elo gain in this case. The same applies for a loss.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IMPORTANT: Example 2 (Town Loss)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You lose a game as Town. Your old winrate was 125/200 giving a z-score of around 2.69697. Your new winrate is now 124/200 (it may be 125/200 still if a loss replaces a loss) giving a z-score of around 2.606061.

Town (except you) and the Mafia/NK/NE have the same mean Elo of 1600.

Assume: F% = 0.6 and AVG% = 0.4766666.

Using the Elo gain/loss formula, 80ln(2X-35) * (new(z) - old(z)) + 1/30*(TM)*(OE - TE) + 20*((AVG% - F%)/AVG%), we have:

80ln(2(200)-35) * (2.606061 - 2.69697) + 1/30*(1)*(1600 - 1600) + 20*((0.4766666 - 0.6)/0.4766666) = -48.08 = 48 Elo loss.

IMPORTANT NOTE: This is a higher change than it would usually be because a loss has replaced a win, due to Rolling 200. This means the difference in win rate is higher than normal, resulting in a higher change in z value from game to game, resulting in a bigger Elo change. This is neutralised however by a minimal Elo change if a loss has replaced a loss, as seen below:

If a loss were to replace a loss instead of the loss replacing a win, (meaning your new winrate is 125/200 giving a z-score of around 2.69697), the ELO loss would be:

-20 + 1/30*(1)*(1600-1600) + 20*((0.4766666 - 0.6)/0.4766666) = -25.17 = 25 Elo loss (Using Restriction 1 in Section 4)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Example 3 (Town Win)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's say you win a game as Town. Your old winrate is 60/100 giving a z-score of around 2.24242436364, and your new winrate is 61/101 giving a z-score of around 2.31443.

Mafia/NK/NE has a mean Elo of 1450 and Town (except you) has a mean Elo of 1550.

Assume: F% = 0.6 and AVG% = 0.4766666.

Using the Elo gain/loss formula, 80ln(2X-35) * (new(z) - old(z)) + 1/30*(TM)*(OE - TE) + 20*((AVG% - F%)/AVG%), we have:

80ln(2(101)-35) * (2.31443 - 2.24242436364) + 1/30*(1)*(1450 - 1550) + 20*((0.4766666 - 0.6)/0.4766666) = 20.97 = 21 Elo gain.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Example 4 (Neutral Killing loss)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You lose a game as NK. Your old winrate was 80/120 giving a z-score of around 3.454545. Your new winrate would now be 80/121 giving a z-score of around 3.35437.

Assume: F% = 0.05 and AVG% = 0.4766666.

Using the Elo gain/loss formula, 80ln(2X-35) * (new(z) - old(z)) + 1/30*(TM)*(OE - TE) + 20*((AVG% - F%)/AVG%), we have:

80ln(2(121)-35) * (3.35437 - 3.454545) + 20*((0.4766666 - 0.05)/0.4766666) = -24.8 = 25 Elo loss.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Example 5 (Mafia loss)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You lose a game as Mafia. Your old winrate was 12/30 giving a z-score of around -1.393939. Your new winrate would now be 12/31 giving a z-score of around -1.628543.

Town/NK has an average Elo of 1700 and Mafia (except you) has an average Elo of 1400.

Assume: F% = 0.35 and AVG% = 0.4766666

Using the Elo gain/loss formula, 80ln(2X-35) * (new(z) - old(z)) + 1/30*(TM)*(OE - TE) + 20*((AVG% - F%)/AVG%), we have:

80ln(2(31)-35) * (-1.628543 - -1.393939) + 1/30*(1)*(1700-1400) + 20*((0.4766666 - 0.35)/0.4766666) = -46.55 = 47 Elo loss.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Example 6 (Neutral Evil Win)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The same player as in Example 3 has won as Neutral Evil. Their old winrate is 12/31 giving a z-score of around -1.628543. Your new winrate would now be 13/32 giving a z-score of around -1.280303.

Assume: F% = 0.3 and AVG% = 0.4766666

Using the Elo gain/loss formula, 80ln(2X-35) * (new(z) - old(z)) + 1/30*(TM)*(OE - TE) + 20*((AVG% - F%)/AVG%), we have:

80ln(2(32)-35) * (-1.280303 - -1.628543) + 20*((0.4766666 - 0.3)/0.4766666) = 101.2 = 101 Elo gain.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Section 6: APPROXIMATE OF A PLAYER'S ELO SCORE
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IMPORTANT NOTE: The formula below will be used to give your Elo after your 20th game, because the gain/loss formula does not work for all games played less than 19 games (X<19). The main use of this formula is to give your Elo score after this 20th game, but it can also be used to estimate Elo score for any amount of games up to 383 games.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Approximate Elo = 1500 + 80ln(X-17.5) * (z) + 20*((T)*((AVG% - T%)/AVG%) + (M)*((AVG% - M%)/AVG%) + (NK)*((AVG% - NK%)/AVG%) + (NE)*((AVG% - NE%)/AVG%))
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Where:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
• "X" is the amount of games, and is capped at 383 games.

• "z" is the z-score of the player.

• "T" refers to the total amount of Town games played.

• "M" refers to the total amount of Mafia games played.

• "NE" refers to the total amount of Neutral Evil games played.

• "NK" refers to the total amount of Neutral Killing games played.

• "T%" refers to the average winrate of Town.

• "M%" refers to the average winrate of Mafia.

• "NK%" refers to the average winrate of Neutral Killing.

• "NE%" refers to the average winrate of Neutral Evil.

• "AVG%" refers to the average winrate of all factions, which is also the average winrate of all players. For example, if the average win % of all factions is 50%, AVG% = 0.5.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Section 7: EXAMPLES OF PLAYER'S APPROXIMATE ELO SCORE
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Example 1
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A player has a win rate of 60% overall (z-score approx 2.242424), and has played 20 games of which 8 games were Town, 5 were Mafia, 4 were NK and 3 were NE.

Assume T% = 0.6, M% = 0.35, NE% = 0.3, NK% = 0.05, AVG% = 0.4766666.

Using 1500 + 80ln(X-17.5) * (z) + 20*((T)*((AVG% - T%)/AVG%) + (M)*((AVG% - M%)/AVG%) + (NK)*((AVG% - NK%)/AVG%) + (NE)*((AVG% - NE%)/AVG%)), the approximate Elo score is:

1500 + 80ln(20-17.5) * (2.242424) + 20*((8)*((0.4766666 - 0.6)/0.4766666) + (5)*((0.4766666 - 0.35)/0.4766666) + (4)*((0.4766666 - 0.05)/0.4766666) + (3)*((0.4766666 - 0.3)/0.4766666)) = 1743 Elo.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Example 2
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A player has a win rate of 40% overall (z-score approx -1.393939), and has played 40 games of which 25 were Town, 7 were Mafia, 5 were NK and 3 were NE.

Assume T% = 0.6, M% = 0.35, NE% = 0.3, NK% = 0.05, AVG% = 0.4766666.

Using 1500 + 80ln(X-17.5) * (z) + 20*((T)*((AVG% - T%)/AVG%) + (M)*((AVG% - M%)/AVG%) + (NK)*((AVG% - NK%)/AVG%) + (NE)*((AVG% - NE%)/AVG%)), the approximate Elo score is:

1500 + 80ln(40-17.5) * (-1.393939) + 20*((25)*((0.4766666 - 0.6)/0.4766666) + (7)*((0.4766666 - 0.35)/0.4766666) + (5)*((0.4766666 - 0.05)/0.4766666) + (3)*((0.4766666 - 0.3)/0.4766666)) = 1172 Elo.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Example 3
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The same player as in Example 2 still maintains the same winrate of 40% (z-score approx -1.393939), but has now played 350 games of which 26 games are NK, 23 games are NE, 100 games are Mafia and 201 games are Town.

Assume T% = 0.6, M% = 0.35, NE% = 0.3, NK% = 0.05, AVG% = 0.4766666.

Using 1500 + 80ln(X-17.5) * (z) + 20*((T)*((AVG% - T%)/AVG%) + (M)*((AVG% - M%)/AVG%) + (NK)*((AVG% - NK%)/AVG%) + (NE)*((AVG% - NE%)/AVG%)), the approximate Elo score is:

1500 + 80ln(350-17.5) * (-1.393939) + 20*((25)*((0.4766666 - 0.6)/0.4766666) + (7)*((0.4766666 - 0.35)/0.4766666) + (5)*((0.4766666 - 0.05)/0.4766666) + (3)*((0.4766666 - 0.3)/0.4766666)) = 872 Elo.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Section 8: ELO TIERS (May change)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bronze: 0-1099

Silver: 1100-1799

Gold: 1800-2099

Platinum: 2100-2349

Diamond: 2350-2599

Master: 2600-2799

Saviour: 2800+
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Section 9: THE UPSIDES & THE POSSIBLE DOWNSIDES
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BIGGEST STRENGTH: Far less based on grinding Elo. There is a higher rise/loss in Elo with a lower amount of games played, and while still considering the amount of games played as a stabilising "k" factor, the main factor is the win rate of the player. This should be the case, this is the thing that shows the players skill, especially after a larger amount of games played.

BIG STRENGTH: The higher rise/loss in Elo with a lower amount of games allows the player to know how well they are performing early on. This is not the case with the current Elo system, where MANY, MANY games must be played to even see some slight indication. This is one of the huge flaws of the current system, and this rework entirely solves it.

• Considers almost all factors, including things such as Your Faction's and Opposing Factions' Elo (if Town/Mafia), increases in Elo due to large amount of NK/NE/Mafia games (due to low faction win %), loss in Elo due to larger amounts of Town games (due to high faction win %) and the amount of overall games played.

• Self-sufficient, since it is based on faction win percentage. This formula would not have to be updated if balance changes were to be made affecting the faction win percentages.

• "Rolling 200 games" allows for an Elo rating showing players ability in the most recent 200 games as opposed to all games played. This allows for an indication of the players recent skill (where they may improve or get worse) rather than older games. This also makes trolling/gamethrowing have a significant impact on Elo, perhaps deterring people from gamethrowing.

• Elo changes from game to game are generally much higher and more exciting than the current ones. This may be another deterrent for trolls/gamethrowers.


BIGGEST WEAKNESS: This Elo system would not allow for a player having games with players of similar ability every single game. This is because this rework uses win rates, and so assumes the mean win rate of the average player over time will average out to the overall average win rate of the Ranked playerbase. If the average win rate of the players you play with is higher or lower than the average, this will not be the case. As such, if players were to be ranked with those of similar ability constantly, a significant change from the average Elo score would be hard for any player, resulting in the majority of players being very close to the average Elo (1500).

HOWEVER, a ranking system can still be applied (see Section 8 above).

• Very complex and intricate. Perhaps quite hard to implement into the game as a result.

HOWEVER, the higher amount of complexity allows for a more accurate Elo rating and overall skill indication.

• Very small and very large Elo gains/losses with more than 200 games played due to larger changes in win rates from game to game.

HOWEVER, this cannot be fully fixed due to the cutoff point of 200 games, and there HAS to be a cutoff point at some place, else the multiplier for games played will become too high, and also Rolling 200 would become impossible if there is no cutoff. Although it seems like a downside, it really isn't all that bad. Limitations/caps have been placed on Elo gains/losses to prevent small or incorrect Elo gains/losses (see Section 4).All is really cool. Definently support this
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for reading! Let me know if I have made any errors and/or I am missing information, or if you simply want to share opinions and ask questions, or anything really. Thanks!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


One of the most thought out rework EVER, and a good idea
/support
Favorite Roles: Consiglere,Witch, and Investigator
Least Favorite: Vetran and Amnesiac

"The best role ideas are definitely rehashes"-No one Ever
User avatar
FoxGames05
Newbie
Newbie
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:18 pm

Re: Elo Rework

Postby Jackparrot » Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:35 pm

Jackparrot wrote:
Flake wrote:NOTICE: I've now changed the rework a large amount. It is now dependent on faction win % and so is self-sufficient as a result, meaning the ELO Gain/Loss equation would never have to be altered with the introduction of balance changes. This also increases the accuracy of the rework. Many other changes have been added also.


I dont think it should be dependant on faction win rate


The reason i feel it shouldnt be solely dependant on faction winrate is cuz it doesnt evaluate individaul skill.
For example, If some one (we will call him Jackparrot) loses as town yet executed three maf as jailor solely through scum reading, then he is pretty good and should deserve a good amt of elo, lets say loses.
However if someone makes a Fatel mistake as mafia say attacking the mayor with a BG on him, he loses less elo according to your theory of elo based on faction win rate.
I am not as active as I used to be, although I should be somewhat active.
Jackparrot
Sheriff
Sheriff
 
Posts: 579
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:16 am

Re: Elo Rework

Postby Flake » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:32 pm

FoxGames05 wrote:One of the most thought out rework EVER, and a good idea
/support

Thank you! I hope to make it significantly more improved and simplified in the near future.
Flake
Consort
Consort
 
Posts: 1081
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:34 am
Location: England, UK

Re: Elo Rework

Postby Flake » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:38 pm

Jackparrot wrote:
Jackparrot wrote:
Flake wrote:NOTICE: I've now changed the rework a large amount. It is now dependent on faction win % and so is self-sufficient as a result, meaning the ELO Gain/Loss equation would never have to be altered with the introduction of balance changes. This also increases the accuracy of the rework. Many other changes have been added also.


I dont think it should be dependant on faction win rate


The reason i feel it shouldnt be solely dependant on faction winrate is cuz it doesnt evaluate individaul skill.
For example, If some one (we will call him Jackparrot) loses as town yet executed three maf as jailor solely through scum reading, then he is pretty good and should deserve a good amt of elo, lets say loses.
However if someone makes a Fatel mistake as mafia say attacking the mayor with a BG on him, he loses less elo according to your theory of elo based on faction win rate.

While I understand what you're saying, it's impossible to evaluate how well a single player does in a single game, because there are too many factors to consider. Even without the inclusion of faction winrates affecting Elo gains/losses, individual skill in a single game can't be measured, so what you're saying isn't really relevant in the matter.
Flake
Consort
Consort
 
Posts: 1081
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:34 am
Location: England, UK

Re: Elo Rework

Postby Dodowarrior44 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:20 pm

Flake wrote:
Jackparrot wrote:
Jackparrot wrote:
Flake wrote:NOTICE: I've now changed the rework a large amount. It is now dependent on faction win % and so is self-sufficient as a result, meaning the ELO Gain/Loss equation would never have to be altered with the introduction of balance changes. This also increases the accuracy of the rework. Many other changes have been added also.


I dont think it should be dependant on faction win rate


The reason i feel it shouldnt be solely dependant on faction winrate is cuz it doesnt evaluate individaul skill.
For example, If some one (we will call him Jackparrot) loses as town yet executed three maf as jailor solely through scum reading, then he is pretty good and should deserve a good amt of elo, lets say loses.
However if someone makes a Fatel mistake as mafia say attacking the mayor with a BG on him, he loses less elo according to your theory of elo based on faction win rate.

While I understand what you're saying, it's impossible to evaluate how well a single player does in a single game, because there are too many factors to consider. Even without the inclusion of faction winrates affecting Elo gains/losses, individual skill in a single game can't be measured, so what you're saying isn't really relevant in the matter.


This is why I always scoff at these suggestions. It is impossible, and too complex.

/support
Favorite Roles:
Witch, Blackmailer, Jailor

Least Favorite Roles:
Executioner

I usually play as Forest.
User avatar
Dodowarrior44
Bodyguard
Bodyguard
 
Posts: 218
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:05 pm

Re: Elo Rework

Postby Flake » Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:10 pm

Dodowarrior44 wrote:/support


Thanks for supporting! :)
Flake
Consort
Consort
 
Posts: 1081
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:34 am
Location: England, UK

Re: Elo Rework

Postby Life9 » Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:11 pm

/support I think elo needs another change and this seems thought out.
Favorite Role: Vampire

Favorite GameMode: All Any

Legacy ELO: 5116
Life9
Bodyguard
Bodyguard
 
Posts: 249
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 12:54 pm

Re: Elo Rework

Postby Flake » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:45 pm

Life9 wrote:/support I think elo needs another change and this seems thought out.

Thanks very much for supporting!!
Flake
Consort
Consort
 
Posts: 1081
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:34 am
Location: England, UK

Re: Elo Rework

Postby PieGuy1207 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:10 am

lmao trying to figure that equation out was a bit of a headcase at first, brings me back to AP Stats in highschool. Overall seems pretty solid and well thought out. In practice I'm not sure how it will work out but in theory it checks out.
In game name Joe Danger
Playing since 2014
Town winrate is way too high. If you don't think so you're wrong
Vamp is an awful role
Hardcore Boston sports fan
User avatar
PieGuy1207
Medium
Medium
 
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:56 pm

Re: Elo Rework

Postby wozearly » Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:05 am

Quite a few moving parts in this reworked version. There's a few tests I'd be interested in running on it, particularly around removing your own ELO when comparing with opponents, as that might have some unintended consequences. I'm pretty supportive of it, though.

Still, so far I've thrown together the formula in Excel and tried pulling on the different levers to see what happened. Notes and thoughts below:

1) The K factor adapting for fewer games played seemed counterintuitive at first, but does a fairly good job of giving people a push towards the 'correct' tier if they significantly underplay/outplay their faction and tier averages. Using some roughly-like-ToS-currently values, in this system:

The first 20 Placement games give triple ELO gain/loss
The next 30 give around double ELO gain/loss
The next 150 give +20% ELO gain/loss
...until any point you enter Diamond+ tiers, at which point you get a -20% to ELO gain/loss and the above stops applying.

In terms of the effect it has, broadly speaking it adds an extra 50 games' worth of ELO effect after 200 games played, with a huge priority on playing well in your first 50. That said, unless you really heavily outplay your tier the effect isn't all that dramatic (100-200 ELO extra was pretty normal in most "I'm a bit better than these guys, but I'm not a Master player" situations I pumped through.


2) The ELO calculation slaves gain and loss to outperforming your tier's faction winrate. Even on its own, its a really beneficial change. As a bonus, if your opponents are all consistently in a similar ELO range to you (ie, OE and TE tend towards 0 over a long run of games), then the calculation is pretty much immune to grinding.

This is great for mathematical balance, although might demotivate players who feel they can't raise their ELO compared to the current situation where long-term grinding is slow but definitely possible.

3) The new system is less forgiving of NK/NE losses than currently. Not automatically a bad thing, but might take some getting used to for players. I plugged in a few numbers based on what you'd currently expect to see in ToS to get a feeling for the ELO gain/loss outside of the placement boosted matches. For players below Diamond/Master, this is probably a reasonable indication:

Town Win: +13
Town Loss: -12

Mafia Win: +15
Mafia Loss - 10

NE Win: +16
NE Loss: -9

NK Win: +19
NK Loss: -6

The above assumes no difference between average ELO for players on each faction
Faction winrates rounded for simplicity, set loosely to ToS published figures from pre-season 1: Town 50%, Mafia 40%, NE 30%, NK 10%.
Average winrate is 43%, assuming the tier as a whole gets a typical spread of factions and a typical winrate (which is statistically reasonable for this many games).
wozearly
Veteran
Veteran
 
Posts: 491
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:48 am

Re: Elo Rework

Postby Jackparrot » Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:55 am

Maybe, we lose no ELO if we lose a game, but we get a certain amt of ELO if we win. Also, I think Elo should start at 0 as 0 is a more neutral number than 1200, so that you can only increase your ELO, and I agree with the idea of having a Limited amt of games for your elo but i would reduce it by at least half, so that it is more indicitive of skill. another idea would be to have seperate ELO for different factions, for example:
TTL games played:
100

Games played as town:
60

Games won as town:
40

Games lost as town:
20

WR for town 2/3

same for maf and NK. Anoher thing is if you die N1 you do not gain any ELO some exeptions would inclde:

you were jailed as SK
As jest

Thats it for now
I am not as active as I used to be, although I should be somewhat active.
Jackparrot
Sheriff
Sheriff
 
Posts: 579
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:16 am

Re: Elo Rework

Postby Flake » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:44 am

wozearly wrote:Quite a few moving parts in this reworked version. There's a few tests I'd be interested in running on it, particularly around removing your own ELO when comparing with opponents, as that might have some unintended consequences. I'm pretty supportive of it, though.

Still, so far I've thrown together the formula in Excel and tried pulling on the different levers to see what happened. Notes and thoughts below:

1) The K factor adapting for fewer games played seemed counterintuitive at first, but does a fairly good job of giving people a push towards the 'correct' tier if they significantly underplay/outplay their faction and tier averages. Using some roughly-like-ToS-currently values, in this system:

The first 20 Placement games give triple ELO gain/loss
The next 30 give around double ELO gain/loss
The next 150 give +20% ELO gain/loss
...until any point you enter Diamond+ tiers, at which point you get a -20% to ELO gain/loss and the above stops applying.

In terms of the effect it has, broadly speaking it adds an extra 50 games' worth of ELO effect after 200 games played, with a huge priority on playing well in your first 50. That said, unless you really heavily outplay your tier the effect isn't all that dramatic (100-200 ELO extra was pretty normal in most "I'm a bit better than these guys, but I'm not a Master player" situations I pumped through.

2) The ELO calculation slaves gain and loss to outperforming your tier's faction winrate. Even on its own, its a really beneficial change. As a bonus, if your opponents are all consistently in a similar ELO range to you (ie, OE and TE tend towards 0 over a long run of games), then the calculation is pretty much immune to grinding.

This is great for mathematical balance, although might demotivate players who feel they can't raise their ELO compared to the current situation where long-term grinding is slow but definitely possible.

3) The new system is less forgiving of NK/NE losses than currently. Not automatically a bad thing, but might take some getting used to for players. I plugged in a few numbers based on what you'd currently expect to see in ToS to get a feeling for the ELO gain/loss outside of the placement boosted matches. For players below Diamond/Master, this is probably a reasonable indication:

Town Win: +13
Town Loss: -12

Mafia Win: +15
Mafia Loss - 10

NE Win: +16
NE Loss: -9

NK Win: +19
NK Loss: -6

The above assumes no difference between average ELO for players on each faction
Faction winrates rounded for simplicity, set loosely to ToS published figures from pre-season 1: Town 50%, Mafia 40%, NE 30%, NK 10%.
Average winrate is 43%, assuming the tier as a whole gets a typical spread of factions and a typical winrate (which is statistically reasonable for this many games).


Thank you SO much for the analysis!

Yes, the main idea of this rework is to be entirely immune to grinding. Both changing factors other than win rate, which are the opposing elo & team elo and increase/decrease in elo change due to faction, eventually balance out and become 0 after many games, leaving win rate as the only factor having influenced the person's Elo. At the same time, these two factors are quite influential with a lower amount of games, which I think should be the case.

I think the main issue I'm having with this is I'm unsure about the extent to which the two factors, opposing elo & team elo and increase/decrease in elo change due to faction, have an impact on the Elo change. I'm starting to think that increase/decrease in elo change due to faction should have more of an impact on Elo change, as you said, but I'm honestly not too sure. As such, perhaps K * (A% - F%)/(3A%) would be more appropriate than the current K * (A% - F%)/(4A%)?

Thanks again!
Flake
Consort
Consort
 
Posts: 1081
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:34 am
Location: England, UK

Re: Elo Rework

Postby Flake » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:49 am

Jackparrot wrote:Maybe, we lose no ELO if we lose a game, but we get a certain amt of ELO if we win. Also, I think Elo should start at 0 as 0 is a more neutral number than 1200, so that you can only increase your ELO, and I agree with the idea of having a Limited amt of games for your elo but i would reduce it by at least half, so that it is more indicitive of skill. another idea would be to have seperate ELO for different factions, for example:
TTL games played:
100

Games played as town:
60

Games won as town:
40

Games lost as town:
20

WR for town 2/3

same for maf and NK. Anoher thing is if you die N1 you do not gain any ELO some exeptions would inclde:

you were jailed as SK
As jest

Thats it for now

Thanks for the feedback!

It's now been changed so that the player starts at 0 Elo, read the updated Original Post :)

However, I disagree with it not decreasing below 0 Elo, because having a negative Elo is an easy indicator that you are below average. Having the average Elo set at some random value above 0 would not be as informative.

Having separate Elo's for each faction is an interesting idea, but I think it would become too complicated and isn't all that necessary.
Flake
Consort
Consort
 
Posts: 1081
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:34 am
Location: England, UK

Re: Elo Rework

Postby Joacgroso » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:58 am

I've noticed silver covers 900 elo, while other ranks only cover 450. Is that made on purpose? Shouldn't it be smaller?
Also, I'm not sure about naming the best rank "saviour". I think "champion" or "master" (renaming the master rank) would be better.
Sorry if I have spelling mistakes. English is not my main language.
I added a petition to my achievement rework!
Plese come and vote to support it!
If you have any suggestions related to achievements, please post them on my thread so we can suggest them together!
User avatar
Joacgroso
Arsonist
Arsonist
 
Posts: 2665
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 6:21 pm
Location: Argentina

Re: Elo Rework

Postby UzayAltay » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:11 am

Ummmmm maybe start with 1000 ELO is a better option , because - can be a problem .
32-33 Spoiler: Town Games(19-23)

NFM 50,NFM51 ,NFM52 , 14D , 14 E , NFM 54 ,14H ( AF ) ,14G , NFM 55 , NFM 56 , 15C , NFM 57,NFM 58,15F,SFM45,16B , VFM36 , 16D , SFM 47 , VFM38 , NFM62 , 16G ,VFM 39,EpisodeXVII , 17B , 17C , VFM44 , 17D , 17F,18C,18D,18E,VFM55,VFM57,SFM64, 19C,VFM58, VFM59,19D,VFM60,SFM66,SFM67

Scum Games (13-10)

NFM 48 , NFM 49 , TFM 65 ,TFM 66 , Episode XV ,TFM68 ,VFM 34, NFM61 , VFM42 , SFM53 , VFM43,17E,VFM49,SFM60,CFM19,VFM54, EpisodeXIX, SFM63, 19E , 19F,VFM62,VFM63XX3
UzayAltay
[Forum Mafia XV] Winner
[Forum Mafia XV] Winner
 
Posts: 583
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 10:17 am

Re: Elo Rework

Postby Joacgroso » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:15 am

How?
Sorry if I have spelling mistakes. English is not my main language.
I added a petition to my achievement rework!
Plese come and vote to support it!
If you have any suggestions related to achievements, please post them on my thread so we can suggest them together!
User avatar
Joacgroso
Arsonist
Arsonist
 
Posts: 2665
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 6:21 pm
Location: Argentina

Re: Elo Rework

Postby Flake » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:17 am

Joacgroso wrote:I've noticed silver covers 900 elo, while other ranks only cover 450. Is that made on purpose? Shouldn't it be smaller?
Also, I'm not sure about naming the best rank "saviour". I think "champion" or "master" (renaming the master rank) would be better.

Thanks for the feedback!

Silver does cover more Elo, and I made it like this on purpose so that the majority of players lie within the Silver Tier.

Also, I was thinking about renaming the Tiers but am unsure what to name them. It doesn't really matter too much anyway, devs can just use whatever names they want.
Flake
Consort
Consort
 
Posts: 1081
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:34 am
Location: England, UK

Re: Elo Rework

Postby Flake » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:17 am

UzayAltay wrote:Ummmmm maybe start with 1000 ELO is a better option , because - can be a problem .


Why is negative Elo a problem?
Flake
Consort
Consort
 
Posts: 1081
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:34 am
Location: England, UK

Re: Elo Rework

Postby Flake » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:25 am

PieGuy1207 wrote:lmao trying to figure that equation out was a bit of a headcase at first, brings me back to AP Stats in highschool. Overall seems pretty solid and well thought out. In practice I'm not sure how it will work out but in theory it checks out.

Thanks for the feedback (-:
Flake
Consort
Consort
 
Posts: 1081
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:34 am
Location: England, UK

Re: Elo Rework

Postby Flake » Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:16 pm

I've now changed the name of Saviour Tier from Saviour to Conqueror. Thoughts??
Flake
Consort
Consort
 
Posts: 1081
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:34 am
Location: England, UK

PreviousNext

Return to Suggestions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest