Whisper System Overhaul

[randomguyhavingfun]

sorry if im late to the party or if you wanted this uodated before receiving any feedback orange but hey im not called random for nothing but i decided to join in. i agree with most your role changes but here is where i knda disagree

Role-list Changes:

• Jailor
• Town Investigative
• Town Investigative
• Town Support
• Town Protective
• Random Town
• Random Town
• Random Town
• Random Town
• Godfather
• Mafioso
• Random Mafia
• Random Mafia
• Neutral Evil
• Neutral Killing

why is town support confirmed? Its every bit as swingy as random town but as good of a claim. town killing fits WAY better in here. you know i would rather have ms and md instead of two random mafias but that isnt that important. another thing i really dislike is the neutrals. oh wait i meant the independed mafia killing and the independed mafia vote. having 2 neutrals slots makes neutrals less of a team and allows them to be converted into the main antagonists sides ( mainly mafia but idk ). this makes nks more difficult and nes less strategic. it also makes town and mafia worry less ( if they care at all ) about the neutral aspect. Of course we cant touch 4man mafia so i think a town member should be replaced with a neutral. you know i am gonna say random neutral becasue it adds unpreductability and adaptability without having its swing influence as well as giving a bit more claimspace and allowing for a second nk so they can be a team or play the stealth game and would be even better without the chance of a vampire spawning. but i understand you are deep into that " neutrals benign doesn belong in ranked " thing ( which i disagree but i dont want to talk about this right now ) so you can go ahead and replace it with confirmed neutral benign a second neutral evil if you like it better.

[SilverRyuu77]

Only good thing in the suggestion is the role list. Yet the only thing I hate about it is the lack of NB. These changes would make the game boring and any other typical mafia game out there. Besides, Transporting the jester guilt is a cool mechanic. And the need to prevent to be able to confirm yourself as a role is plain stupid imho. I like the features of death notes and fun abilities. Only thing I feel is overpowered is that the role list does need some fixing for ranked while keeping the fact that every role can appear in ranked.

[randomguyhavingfun]

Only good thing in the suggestion is the role list. Yet the only thing I hate about it is the lack of NB. These changes would make the game boring and any other typical mafia game out there. Besides, Transporting the jester guilt is a cool mechanic. And the need to prevent to be able to confirm yourself as a role is plain stupid imho. I like the features of death notes and fun abilities. Only thing I feel is overpowered is that the role list does need some fixing for ranked while keeping the fact that every role can appear in ranked.

Why should every role appear on ranked? Ranked is pretty much meant to be competitive so problematic roles,do not belong there. The role suggestions are mostly really nice. I don't care if something is ''cool" if it isn't nice for the game. Just like exe suits in cod.

[PoptartPresident]

Only good thing in the suggestion is the role list. Yet the only thing I hate about it is the lack of NB. These changes would make the game boring and any other typical mafia game out there. Besides, Transporting the jester guilt is a cool mechanic. And the need to prevent to be able to confirm yourself as a role is plain stupid imho. I like the features of death notes and fun abilities. Only thing I feel is overpowered is that the role list does need some fixing for ranked while keeping the fact that every role can appear in ranked.

Why should every role appear on ranked? Ranked is pretty much meant to be competitive so problematic roles,do not belong there. The role suggestions are mostly really nice. I don't care if something is ''cool" if it isn't nice for the game. Just like exe suits in cod.

But Survivors and Amnesiacs do impact the game.
Kingmaking/ally for evils + an extra town/mafia member or a new neutral role.
Taking them away would mean not having a variety to have in Ranked. And Ranked can have variety, and be balanced at the same time.


The only current roles that do not belong in ranked is Vampires and Vampire hunters

[randomguyhavingfun]

Only good thing in the suggestion is the role list. Yet the only thing I hate about it is the lack of NB. These changes would make the game boring and any other typical mafia game out there. Besides, Transporting the jester guilt is a cool mechanic. And the need to prevent to be able to confirm yourself as a role is plain stupid imho. I like the features of death notes and fun abilities. Only thing I feel is overpowered is that the role list does need some fixing for ranked while keeping the fact that every role can appear in ranked.

Why should every role appear on ranked? Ranked is pretty much meant to be competitive so problematic roles,do not belong there. The role suggestions are mostly really nice. I don't care if something is ''cool" if it isn't nice for the game. Just like exe suits in cod.

But Survivors and Amnesiacs do impact the game.
Kingmaking/ally for evils + an extra town/mafia member or a new neutral role.
Taking them away would mean not having a variety to have in Ranked. And Ranked can have variety, and be balanced at the same time.


The only current roles that do not belong in ranked is Vampires and Vampire hunters

pop i do not know if you read my post commenting on oranges list or any other post of mine discussing about nbs in ranked but i DO NOT support the removal of neutral benigns becasue they do have a purpose and they have a positive impact on the games strategic aspect. i was talkng about vamps and vh

[PoptartPresident]

Survivor and Amnesiac are both terrible RN.

If we balance them, maybe they can have a spot in Ranked, but still likely not as a 15p game should only have 2 neutrals.

The current *NB roles are Survivor and Amnesiac.
They aren't terrible roles. (Maybe you may not particularly like them), and they do serve purposes.

The game makers are fully aware of this too because even one of the tips on the loading screen is "A survivor can be the deciding factor between who wins".
So it's definitely something they intended...

[PoptartPresident]

Survivor and Amnesiac are both terrible RN.

If we balance them, maybe they can have a spot in Ranked, but still likely not as a 15p game should only have 2 neutrals.

The current *NB roles are Survivor and Amnesiac.
They aren't terrible roles. (Maybe you may not particularly like them), and they do serve purposes.

The game makers are fully aware of this too because even one of the tips on the loading screen is "A survivor can be the deciding factor between who wins".
So it's definitely something they intended...

Yeah because the devs are the best at balancing the game. (._. )

Survivor is a kingmaker, no matter how you wanna argue against it you can't deny that it can deny the rightful winner their prize.
Amnesiac is extremely townsided.

q.q

Well if you know how to balance a game over the devs, why don't you make your own version of Town of Salem 1.6, and see how everyone reacts? I'm sure you'll love the attention you'll gain. *wink*
And I don't want to argue that the survivor is not a kingmaker. Because it is.
However, Survivors aren't the only kingmakers in the game.

And Kingmaking is not an issue. It's totally intended.
TIP: "A survivor can be the deciding vote with who wins."
If it's not intended, then why do they specifically have this type of tip?
This heavily implies that the devs totally intended for the game to have kingmaking.
This is another instance of "I don't like it, so let's take it out."

As for Amnesiacs, they do have preferences. Everyone is different, and some people are willing to wait longer to become an evil role. Just because Amnesiacs become town most of the time, doesn't mean they want to.

[Villagerlover]

Hell.

I still dont agree with a doctor being allowed to heal a revealed mayor. Because unlike any other role in the game, they can confirm themselves the easiest (click a button).
Even if the mayor only had 2 votes, it's still an advantage to be able to keep someone like that alive. Mayor's would never die again!


But either way, I'm pretty sure none of this is going to be implemented.
As with any suggestion made by anyone here really.



At this point, I just want something in the game to actually change already. Because this game isn't balanced yet.
We just keep seeing the same suggestions over and over nowadays, and it's just becoming tedious.

Devs, please do somethin already

[randomguyhavingfun]

I am still waiting for an advantage of just 2 neutrals in a 15 player game. And if town is nerfed nbs will become more neutral and thus better

[PoptartPresident]

Doc not being able to heal mayor makes the game swingy and contingent on a roll of the dice.

You're giving the town more power.
We shouldn't be giving one of the most powerful roles even more coverage.

And no. It doesn't make it "swingy". It makes the mayor too powerful. Heck, even if the mayor didn't have any extra votes, the fact that he can 100% confirm himself with the simple click of a button, should still be restricting enough to not allow a doctor to heal him.

Why do you believe the mayor should be healed? Because he really shouldn't.

[orangeandblack5]

3 Neutrals in a game means that 1/5th or 20% of the game is Neutral. That's the extreme upper limit of Neutral roles in my opinion. The game is Town vs Mafia, not Town vs Mafia vs Neutrals.

[randomguyhavingfun]

3 Neutrals in a game means that 1/5th or 20% of the game is Neutral. That's the extreme upper limit of Neutral roles in my opinion. The game is Town vs Mafia, not Town vs Mafia vs Neutrals.

This game is PRIMARILY town v mafia but it is essentially towns v mafia v neutrals. Honestly I'd sooner get rid of town than neutrals in the rolelist but that's not the topic. 2 neutrals basically is 10v 5 though assuming mafia has 3 peeps.

[orangeandblack5]

9-4-2 is pretty solid, if you ask me.

[randomguyhavingfun]

9-4-2 is pretty solid, if you ask me.

So what are the neutrals gonna be? Maybe it works with two nks or something but that's not balanche. I assume you are talking about nk and ne. Nk is orettty much left with no allies and no night immunity cover. Also since the town and mafia do not have to worry about neutrals not voting The nk up the nk is pretty much wishing it was just fighting against the odds. But hey I mean mafia needs a hand over there to duty nk. Neutral evil is now much less thought out. With no possibility of a second nk and 9 town votes a witch has no real choice but to sign a contact declaring it the first ever mafia role with no mafia chat or promotion. Executioner is much less strategic becasue the neutral factor is low and mafia doesn't have to worry about outing themselves too much so there are five votes outright. Jesters job is also pretty much more straightforward as he basically acts like a noob and hope for the best assuming he isn't getting rid of becasue his presence hurts ranked.

[orangeandblack5]

9-4-2 is pretty solid, if you ask me.

9v6 = potential LyLo D2?

10v5 is better IMO.

But doing that with Neutral roles doesn't work. What we really need is 16-player Mafia, 10/4/2.

[orangeandblack5]

My problem lies with the three-man Mafia. If you're going to make a three man Mafia, there either needs to be the chance of a fourth (through the Any slot, which isn't a good thing in any way) or no Mafioso (and a tactical Mafia setup so it isn't required). Anything else gives way too little variety in the Mafia's abilities and makes them essentially a two-member faction.

[Seruth]

Role-list Changes:

Jailor
Town Investigative
Town Investigative
Town Support
Town Protective
Random Town
Random Town
Random Town
Random Town
Godfather
Mafioso
Random Mafia
Random Mafia
Neutral Evil
Neutral Killing

Spy Changes:
-Remove ability to read Mafia night chat
-Remove ability to read whispers once dead
-Now has a night ability - it can track one person each night, seeing where they go or if they stay home
-Now has two "Supersensors", which show all Mafia visits. To use a supersensor the Spy must target itself at night (can be roleblocked or controlled).

1. Rolelist Changes.
Jailor
TI
TI
TP
TK
RT
RT
RT
GF
Mafioso
RM
RM
NE
NK
RN
2. Spy.
Spy only sees if someone visited or not, not who they visited, else it is OP. Rest is ok.

[randomguyhavingfun]

RN is extremely swingy.

Tracker is fine as a role.

It is kinda swingy sure but I think some swing in the neutral faction helps the game as it forced town and mafia to adapt without changing the usual flow of the game too much. it also provides ckaimspace and unpredictability. If only camps weren't a part of it.

Seruth I really like your proposals.

[Seruth]

RN is extremely swingy.

Tracker is fine as a role.

A tracker that can see who someone visited, with 2 supersensors to see who mafia visited and the ability to read whispers.. is NOT OP?
No swing is B O R I N G.

[orangeandblack5]

I already reduced it to one I thought?

Edit: Apparently not here, just on my other thread. Whoops.

[Seruth]

I do not agree it should read whispers, and the supersensor should be reduced to one.

We need CONTROLLED swing. Potential 3KPN is terrible and harms the game without helping it. RT's add swing, but also add claimspace.

3KPN is not that terrible- mafia can get killed as well. 2 NKs also buff the NKs, even WW. 2 NEs means that there could be a RN jester or exe.
It also- and that is important- assures that every role can still be played at ranked!
(BTW: If a witch faction like (Neutral Witch) would exist, then we would have to remove 1 RM for it)

[Myersvandalay]

I do not agree it should read whispers, and the supersensor should be reduced to one.

We need CONTROLLED swing. Potential 3KPN is terrible and harms the game without helping it. RT's add swing, but also add claimspace.

3KPN is not that terrible- mafia can get killed as well. 2 NKs also buff the NKs, even WW. 2 NEs means that there could be a RN jester or exe.
It also- and that is important- assures that every role can still be played at ranked!
(BTW: If a witch faction like (Neutral Witch) would exist, then we would have to remove 1 RM for it)

There's a few ways to interpret a witch faction concept though. They could make the main evil faction a variable with seperate role lists. IE you could get mafia, vamps or witches. With seperate town role lists for each possible concept.

[randomguyhavingfun]

I do not agree it should read whispers, and the supersensor should be reduced to one.

We need CONTROLLED swing. Potential 3KPN is terrible and harms the game without helping it. RT's add swing, but also add claimspace.

Have you played ranked? Becasue there is already a potential of 3 kpn. And since the nks aren't a team they would likely heat one another or mafia. 2k by neutrals means neutrals are a serious threat for both mafia and town so it increases strategic elements of the game alongside planning and dividing or even temporary alliances which makes the game better. As long as there are not vamps

[YamiChan]

What we really need to do is add a Whisper button beside every player, so people can whisper without typing something out every time.

Gathering claims through whispers doesn't really happen anymore, now that Mayor has lost the ability to whisper and be whispered to. Very rarely, a revived player will try to demand roles be whispered to them, but even then, very few do so or suffer any consequence for refusing, due to the possibility of BMer.

The whole point of the Mayor having a reveal option is that they can immediately prove themselves and have a vote worth three votes, but at the cost of being unable to be saved by one of the two possible TPs. Take that away, and there's little reasons NOT to reveal, so long as the TP is not yet dead. This also makes things harder on the Mafia, who may take the reveal of a Doctor as a chance to kill the Mayor, who is a huge threat to them. Two votes instead of three also severely weakens the role and potentially makes them useless.

Not completely against the idea of the Ret dying to bring back their target, but don't really see why it's necessary. Sometimes, a Ret will try to revive just to increase Town's numbers, but that is rendered pointless if they die. The "disguise" idea just seems kind of pointless and will likely just make games more confusing.

Reducing the Jailor's exes is too severe of a weakness. There are times when a Jailor's exes or a Vig's bullets are the only chance a Town has at victory. Removing their death note is just an annoyance. Jailors generally do not use it to confirm themselves, but to reveal their reason for exeing. Same goes for the Vig, and as the Vig is CHOOSING to shoot a player, why shouldn't they be allowed to leave a death note behind.

It might kind of make sense to remove the Vet's death note, since they just shoot all who visit them while on alert, but this too seems pointless. A Vet is likely to be exposed when they kill, either by Town wills or by Mafia knowing who their teammate targeted, and a Vet shouldn't want to out themselves in their death note.

Transporter should get notifications because it makes sense for them to. On the fence about them being able to transport Jester guilt, though.

Not sure about the Amnesiac change. Part of me thinks it would be nice to not have entire game know what role I picked, especially if everyone knows who I am, but the other part of me thinks this is just gonna make it so all Amnesiac claims are immediately killed. NBs get picked on enough.

Spy could be able to read Mafia chat, as it's a big part of their role, and the changes to Mayor and BMer have already rendered their ability to read whispers all but pointless. I'm fine with them losing that ability upon death, however. Hate all the other changes. Feels like they belong to a completely different role.

Vampire Hunter is too OP. Better to keep it as is, even if it's a little specific.

I like the new role idea, but with some changes. You can read those in the thread.

We're all standing in the same area, so we should be able to see when people are whispering. Changing this also screws over both Spy and BMer. And why shouldn't Town roles be able to whisper? Instant death via whisper also sounds pretty bad.

[orangeandblack5]

We're all standing in the same area, so we should be able to see when people are whispering. Changing this also screws over both Spy and BMer. And why shouldn't Town roles be able to whisper? Instant death via whisper also sounds pretty bad.

You're treating those two suggestions seperately.

They're a pair, and should be critiqued as such.