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Re: Town of Salem 1.5 - New Update

PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:10 am
by Kirize12
orangeandblack5 wrote:Added two new, small Bodyguard nerfs to bring it more in line with Doctor:

-Can not be healed when sacrificed protecting somebody
-Can not protect from Arsonist's douse

>never implemented on the OP
>qq

Also, does vigilante have Jailor's guilt?

Re: Town of Salem 1.5 - New Update

PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:22 am
by doublenikesocks
Isn't the point of making town have the highest winrate because there are more town players? It makes sense that the game is designed to give most of the players the win, and they do get less ELO reward. I do agree that there some type of nerf to town roles, esp. ret, but nerfing all town roles while buffing maf roles isn't the solution. Opinions?

Re: Town of Salem 1.5 - New Update

PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 5:23 am
by orangeandblack5
doublenikesocks wrote:Isn't the point of making town have the highest winrate because there are more town players? It makes sense that the game is designed to give most of the players the win, and they do get less ELO reward. I do agree that there some type of nerf to town roles, esp. ret, but nerfing all town roles while buffing maf roles isn't the solution. Opinions?

orangeandblack5 wrote:Proportional winrates are the upper limit for the winrate split imo

Personally I'd like to see Town and Mafia be evenly matched, which puts a lot more emphasis on player skill to determine Elo. NK wins should, in my opinion, be around 5% in Ranked (certainly no more than 10%), which is essentially proportional. This gives me an ideal winrate somewhere between 42.5/42.5/5 and 60/30/10 T/M/NK, although the closer to the first one the better imo.

The worst problem with running strictly proportional winrates (or higher, like currently) is that what role you get directly impacts your chances and reduces the role of player skill. Evenly matched teams mean that player skill on each team determines the victor, whilst proportional winrates lead to what is essentially feeding whoever rolls Town the most the most Elo while trying to make everybody win as much as they can (it's hard to explain, I hope you get what I'm getting at - basically, it's the reason that asymmetrical games like Evolve shoot for each team to have an even winrate instead of giving the hunters an 80% chance and the monster a 20% chance).

Re: Town of Salem 1.5 - New Update

PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 6:35 am
by randomguyhavingfun
doublenikesocks wrote:Isn't the point of making town have the highest winrate because there are more town players? It makes sense that the game is designed to give most of the players the win, and they do get less ELO reward. I do agree that there some type of nerf to town roles, esp. ret, but nerfing all town roles while buffing maf roles isn't the solution. Opinions?

The game is eant to force players to work hard for their victory and reward the players who played better . So no I rate should go higher than 50%. The nks should have a serious chance of winning but since the game is based on town versus mafia they are forced to a lower one.

Re: Town of Salem 1.5 - New Update

PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 5:41 pm
by doublenikesocks
randomguyhavingfun wrote:
doublenikesocks wrote:Isn't the point of making town have the highest winrate because there are more town players? It makes sense that the game is designed to give most of the players the win, and they do get less ELO reward. I do agree that there some type of nerf to town roles, esp. ret, but nerfing all town roles while buffing maf roles isn't the solution. Opinions?

The game is eant to force players to work hard for their victory and reward the players who played better . So no I rate should go higher than 50%. The nks should have a serious chance of winning but since the game is based on town versus mafia they are forced to a lower one.

I see. I still don't like the idea of maf having close to 50% winrate because that places a greater emphasis on townies playing better even though they will on average recieve more bad players than mafia. If there's one really bad player per game, (there usually is) then town's going to get that player 7/15 or 8/15 of the time while maf will get them 1/5 or 4/15. Either way arso wins are still incredibly hard. I seem to win the most with WW of any of the NK though.

orangeandblack5 wrote:
doublenikesocks wrote:Isn't the point of making town have the highest winrate because there are more town players? It makes sense that the game is designed to give most of the players the win, and they do get less ELO reward. I do agree that there some type of nerf to town roles, esp. ret, but nerfing all town roles while buffing maf roles isn't the solution. Opinions?

orangeandblack5 wrote:Proportional winrates are the upper limit for the winrate split imo

Personally I'd like to see Town and Mafia be evenly matched, which puts a lot more emphasis on player skill to determine Elo. NK wins should, in my opinion, be around 5% in Ranked (certainly no more than 10%), which is essentially proportional. This gives me an ideal winrate somewhere between 42.5/42.5/5 and 60/30/10 T/M/NK, although the closer to the first one the better imo.

The worst problem with running strictly proportional winrates (or higher, like currently) is that what role you get directly impacts your chances and reduces the role of player skill. Evenly matched teams mean that player skill on each team determines the victor, whilst proportional winrates lead to what is essentially feeding whoever rolls Town the most the most Elo while trying to make everybody win as much as they can (it's hard to explain, I hope you get what I'm getting at - basically, it's the reason that asymmetrical games like Evolve shoot for each team to have an even winrate instead of giving the hunters an 80% chance and the monster a 20% chance).

Yeah I get you. I guess I'd give it a try. See my point above.

Re: Town of Salem 1.5 - New Update

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:03 pm
by darkd123
I know this information is completely useless and doesn't matter at all, but I'm the only person here who isn't a guest at the moment. :D

Anyway, I think the Sheriff is a little too buffed. I mean, all of the buffs would allow Sheriffs -who care more about winning than being annoying- to use annoying strategies that Vampires, Arsonists, E.T.C Won't be able to avoid. (An example would be a Sheriff interrogating a revealed mayor to see if he was bitten by a vampire.) And since Sheriffs usually say the interrogation results in their will, they would be confirmed evil roles. The problem with making these new roles shown to a Sheriff is that most of the roles that already are shown to Sheriff are easy to get other people the idea that you were shown to be evil because a certain thing happened, such as you being framed or a Werewolf was transed with you but were healed by a Doc. But with these new roles being shown to the Sheriff, the very small amount of situations where you weren't that role but it was just the circumstances you were in I assume would be hard to figure out.

I also think that with the new Ranked roles, there should be Random Mafia instead of Mafia support or Mafia deception. It would be easier for Townies to confirm their roles, allowing people to use process of elimination to find out who the criminals and evildoers are.That's just what I think, though. I know there is probably a few flaws, but whatever.

Re: Town of Salem 1.5 - New Update

PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:00 am
by HereThereEverywhere
Vampires shouldn't be biting a revealing Mayor if that Mayor can be lynched the next day.

Also, dark, pay attention to the person who posted before you. The last thing anyone said here was from December 13th. It's common courtesy to not "necrobump" a thread like this. When you post on a thread, it brings that thread to the top, therefore it is 'bumped' and if it's an old thread, then it's necrobumped'.

Re: Town of Salem 1.5 - New Update

PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:12 pm
by Ufiix
I feel that Jailor is and should be as powerful as it is. Giving less executions would cripple the role too much. We have NB roles that can side with the evils and the Neutral Evils and the NK and the Mafia. It needs 3 executions if you're going to be buffing all the evil roles. I know town has a high win ratio but its not because of the Jailor it's the Evil roles being too weak to do much about it.

Also add to mayor if you role block them maybe they cant reveal next day? IDK I just find mayors reveal annoying and you cant do anything about it either

Re: Town of Salem 1.5 - New Update

PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:40 pm
by orangeandblack5
There was a suggestion a while back to make revealing a night action (that can therefore be RB'd).

It gained a decent amount of traction.

Re: Town of Salem 1.5 - New Update

PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:50 pm
by Kirize12
But it doesn't work when the Mayor is Town Power (why did it change to Town Leader q.q)

Also, does Vigilante have Jailor's guilt?

Re: Town of Salem 1.5 - New Update

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:02 pm
by alex1234321
Kirize12 wrote:But it doesn't work when the Mayor is Town Power (why did it change to Town Leader q.q)

Also, does Vigilante have Jailor's guilt?

It was changed to Town Leader because of the people who say that it is a bad idea because of its name.

Re: Town of Salem 1.5 - Outdated?

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:36 pm
by Purple998
CyloDaDragonYT wrote:
Neutral Chaos removed OR restricted to Chaos game modes

So you cant use vamps, plague/pest, or pirate in custom




Why...? why did you necro this?? now they are gonna lock this precious thread :(

Re: Town of Salem 1.5 - Outdated?

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:15 pm
by orangeandblack5
CyloDaDragonYT wrote:
Neutral Chaos removed OR restricted to Chaos game modes

So you cant use vamps, plague/pest, or pirate in custom

Nope, just in Chaotic Custom.