orangeandblack5 wrote:1: SK will certainly remain stronger because it actually consistently kills. Arsonist does not. Making it a source of panic and fear is the only way to keep it balanced. Plus, Investigator is incredibly solid right now. This won't do too much to it.
2: Yeah, Amne should never be in Ranked. Making it less town sided and more open to free choice is just common sense.
3: I mean it could work that the Werewolf doesn't kill roleblockers ever, that it only does if it would otherwise kill, or that it always does. That would need to be chosen through in-game testing, however. It can't be accurately theorized how much that might affect game balance and in what subtle ways.
4: If you can give a new reason that nobody has used yet to argue why the Neutral Benign slot (a.k.a. "Do Nothing" slot) should remain in Ranked, I'll think it over. That being said, most of the arguments given so far are kind of nonsensical. Every role should be in Ranked? With Vampires and Vampire Hunters and that semi-confirmed Zombie role? No thank you.
The Arsonist's lack of immediate killing isn't a problem with these changes, though. It's actually a huge strength to be able to kill everyone all at once later on. The reason that's normally a risk is that the Investigator can eventually find the Arsonist before he gets to ignite, but with doused targets showing up as potential Arsos, that's basically impossible. The Serial Killer, on the other hand, just shrinks the pool of potential suspects over time until he inevitably gets lynched by the Mafia majority he's helped to create. It should also be noted that the Arsonist isn't actually "a source of panic and fear" if no one even knows (s)he is doused until the game abruptly ends as 8 townies go up in flames. I just don't see how you expect Arsonists ever to lose with this setup, except when the Mafia manages to find them (and, even then, they'll have to ensure they haven't found an Executioner).
Survivors and Executioners (EDIT: typo) getting to play kingmaker just makes for unfun situations that aren't skill-testing at all. I agree 100%. But I really do like the existence of Jesters as a role and don't see why you want to move them to Neutral Benign. They add a chaotic element to the game that the Mafia can exploit (at least once Transporters stop being able to transport Jester guilt) to kill off a town member, and they make for lots of interesting decisions.
Town: "Do we have the Jailor or Vigilante shoot this guy tonight, with the risk that the Werewolf attacks him and thus we lose a town killing/power role, or do we lynch him and possibly lose a townie anyway if he's a Jester?"
Mafia: "Who do we attack tonight, given that there's a chance the Jester kills one of the people who voted Guilty? We could waste a kill if we hit one who's gonna die anyway, but the Bodyguard is probably not going to defend any of the Guilty voters either..." etc, etc. Perhaps most importantly, they make early lynches a lot more risky and often force the Jailor to waste a night and an execution on a non-Mafia member.
Of course, I guess the main issue really is just that the Jailor is a disgusting role. Who the fuck thought that a role which roleblocks better than an Escort (hitting RB-immune targets), kills better than a Vigilante (killing night-immune targets), defends a target better than a Doctor (protecting even from Arsonists), and essentially séances a living target every night, ALL AT ONCE, was reasonable? The game would be almost balanced in its current state if you just removed Jailors and Spies from the game entirely. They're just stupid roles. But the existence of the Jester helps keep Jailors a little bit busier, at least, in addition to its other usage for the Mafia.