Town of Salem 1.5 - Outdated?

Leave your suggestions about the game here!

Are Town Leader (formerly Town Power) and the resulting Mayor/Retributionist buffs good ideas?

Buff Mayor and Retributionist so they can fit in Town Leader with the more powerful Jailor.
142
56%
Make Retributionist die when it revives a player and keep it Town Support. Add another Town Leader role.
31
12%
Make Retributionist die when it revives a player and keep it Town Support. Have only Mayor and Jailor as Town Leader.
25
10%
Nerf Mayor and Retributionist, and have a confirmed Jailor. No Town Leader.
56
22%
 
Total votes : 254

Re: Town of Salem 1.5

Postby JazzMusicStops » Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:34 pm

Batzcat wrote:Why would you remove vigilante and veteran deathnotes? I honestly don't see a reason for that, it would just be less fun to be those classes.

Nerfs confirmed Town by making them less confirmable
...
If that makes sense
And you may say to yourself, "My God! What have I done?"

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Re: Town of Salem 1.5

Postby Batzcat » Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:53 pm

JammySplodge wrote:
Batzcat wrote:Why would you remove vigilante and veteran deathnotes? I honestly don't see a reason for that, it would just be less fun to be those classes.

Nerfs confirmed Town by making them less confirmable
...
If that makes sense

Yes, but most of the time the death note isn't the thing that confirms TK, it's usually the will of the person who visits or is targeted by TK that gives it away
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Re: Town of Salem 1.5

Postby orangeandblack5 » Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:52 pm

If you don't confirm yourself via Death Note whilst playing a non-Jailor TK, you're being an idiot 99% of the time. To leave this function in only cripples claimspace.
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SwampRabbit wrote:So basically, your idea is that no town should ever be able to confirm themselves as town.

No offense but that is the dumbest idea I think I have heard.

Spoiler: Help support my Investigator Results List Overhaul and Town of Salem 1.5 suggestions!
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Re: Town of Salem 1.5

Postby Whatziznem » Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:37 pm

Err, that's a rather inflated percentage. >_> Revealing yourself through a Vigilante death note with a possible Witch in the game is a BadIdea™, fr'ex.

Veterans obviously should always reveal cuz it's ridiculously hard to do anything to a Veteran.

Interesting suggestions here, but a few things of note:

1) Arsonists are way stronger than Serial Killers with these changes. They'll lose to bad luck if they get investigated night one, but that's their only disadvantage versus SKs. (EDIT: Actually, is that even true? I don't know if Investigator priority is higher than Arsonist.) Any night past #1 they're damn near impossible to find with an Investigator, unlike an SK. Sheriffs can find them now, but they can already find SKs, so that doesn't make SKs any better than Arsos. The lack of douse notifications means Lookouts can no longer try to watch the non-doused townies to find the Arsonists. And SKs are usually screwed when they're jailed, whereas Arsos now don't even let town figure out that no one was doused the night they were jailed. That's a massive level of imbalance between the two NK roles. This is far and away the biggest complaint I have here. Really, finding an Arso under these rules is now basically up to luck or mayor-gaming. I don't mind a strong NK role, but having it in combination with a weak one is silly.

2) Amnesiacs under these rule changes are gonna have overwhelmingly high win rates. Since they can now join Mafia with more impunity than before, this is mostly a buff to the Mafia's win rate, which is fine in terms of faction balance, but for individual player win rates this is gonna skew things a bit. Basically an Amnesiac game would have to be a +1[win] -7[lose] ELO change or something similarly ridiculous, making Amnesiac games really #FeelsBadMan since you know you'll never gain any reasonable amount of ELO relative to the time spent playing.

3) Some of the Werewolf change suggestions are too complex to work with Jailors. So, what, jailing a WW gets you killed unless the WW killed two people the night before? Or it doesn't get you killed on an odd night unless the WW didn't kill two people the previous night? Really wonky rules there.

Not gonna discuss your removal of Neutral Unaligned (and Jesters) from the Ranked role-list, since I've seen posts from you that are so adamant about these changes that there's clearly no convincing you of how wrong you are on this front. :P
EDIT: Oh, I just realized my #2 complaint is incompatible with this statement, because you don't want Amnesiacs in Ranked. I guess I'll address this in a bit, then.
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Re: Town of Salem 1.5

Postby Tigerleap » Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:57 pm

My thoughts: Sorry to say this, but I disagree with a lot of the things in this post.
One: The Town Power thing does not make any sense. How are Mayor and Retributionist different from Escort and Medium enough to make them have a new alignment? Because they have power? I don't understand how "Power" is something that these two roles posses that makes them different. I mean, yes, Mayor has "Power" of having three votes, and Retributionist has "Power" of bringing back someone dead, but Escort has "Power" of distracting others, and Medium has "Power" of speaking with the dead. So basically, you're splitting up Town Support in two for no reason at all, since the word used in the alignment does not separate the roles.
Two: This would have a negative impact on gameplay since adding a Town Power to the role list would guarantee either Mayor or Retributionist in the game. We might as well just have two Town Support and ditch the whole "Power" nonsense thing.

"Skill and luck are bound to intercept each other, and thus the two cannot coexist in harmony."

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Why am I called Tigerleap? - It's my Warrior Cat name!
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What is my least favorite role? - The Pirate; it's absolutely cancer and we must get rid of it.
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Re: Town of Salem 1.5

Postby orangeandblack5 » Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:13 pm

One: That is literally a flavor text complaint
Two: No it doesn't, Jailor is Town Power too
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SwampRabbit wrote:So basically, your idea is that no town should ever be able to confirm themselves as town.

No offense but that is the dumbest idea I think I have heard.

Spoiler: Help support my Investigator Results List Overhaul and Town of Salem 1.5 suggestions!
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ElderSivart wrote:I'm confused as to why BMG made a UI for Pirate and not Hypnotist.

Sarah Thorpe wrote:Role Ideas is great for masochists.
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Re: Town of Salem 1.5

Postby Tigerleap » Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:43 pm

orangeandblack5 wrote:One: That is literally a flavor text complaint
Two: No it doesn't, Jailor is Town Power too

My thoughts: Actually, you're right. However, Retributionist should not be Town Power, it should just be Mayor and Jailor- that would have a possitive effect on gameplay.

"Skill and luck are bound to intercept each other, and thus the two cannot coexist in harmony."

-Tigerleap


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FAQ

Spoiler: FAQ:
Why am I called Tigerleap? - It's my Warrior Cat name!
What is my favorite role? - The Lookout is the most fun role for me to play as.
What is my least favorite role? - The Pirate; it's absolutely cancer and we must get rid of it.
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Re: Town of Salem 1.5

Postby Kirize12 » Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:48 pm

Retributionist is one of the most powerful roles in the game. People have been trying to nerf it.
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: Town of Salem 1.5

Postby mihail66 » Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:15 pm

Yesterday a confirmation was given by a moderator in the "Ask question" section that the mayor is getting nurfed, not buffed. Too bad that i actually liked playing as Mayor.
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Re: Town of Salem 1.5

Postby Tigerleap » Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:49 pm

Why is Lookout Town Protective? I get that it can find out who killed someone, but it doesn't protect that person from death, like Doctor and Bodyguard. A lookout watching someone won't save their life, but find out who killed them, so I don't get why it would need to be a Town Protective role. Its purpose is to find out who people's roles are, making it Town Investigative.

"Skill and luck are bound to intercept each other, and thus the two cannot coexist in harmony."

-Tigerleap


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FAQ

Spoiler: FAQ:
Why am I called Tigerleap? - It's my Warrior Cat name!
What is my favorite role? - The Lookout is the most fun role for me to play as.
What is my least favorite role? - The Pirate; it's absolutely cancer and we must get rid of it.
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Re: Town of Salem 1.5

Postby orangeandblack5 » Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:56 pm

If another Town Protective role is added, it will be swapped back.

That being said, Lookout is literally a protective role at its core. The end result is sinply different (notifications instead of actual protection).
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SwampRabbit wrote:So basically, your idea is that no town should ever be able to confirm themselves as town.

No offense but that is the dumbest idea I think I have heard.

Spoiler: Help support my Investigator Results List Overhaul and Town of Salem 1.5 suggestions!
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ElderSivart wrote:I'm confused as to why BMG made a UI for Pirate and not Hypnotist.

Sarah Thorpe wrote:Role Ideas is great for masochists.
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Re: Town of Salem 1.5

Postby Tigerleap » Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:11 pm

orangeandblack5 wrote:If another Town Protective role is added, it will be swapped back.

That being said, Lookout is literally a protective role at its core. The end result is sinply different (notifications instead of actual protection).


In the Town of Salem Wiki, it says "Town Protectives are a group of people in the town that side with the Townies. Each night, they protect others from dying - or, once per game, potentially themselves."
Lookout does not meet these requirements.
However, it does meet the Town Investigative requirements: "Town Investigative are the alignment of those individuals in the town who side with the townies. They are able to gather information on the roles or actions of other players, which would eventually help them judge which players are their friends, enemies, and possible detractors."

"Skill and luck are bound to intercept each other, and thus the two cannot coexist in harmony."

-Tigerleap


Image

FAQ

Spoiler: FAQ:
Why am I called Tigerleap? - It's my Warrior Cat name!
What is my favorite role? - The Lookout is the most fun role for me to play as.
What is my least favorite role? - The Pirate; it's absolutely cancer and we must get rid of it.
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Re: Town of Salem 1.5

Postby orangeandblack5 » Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:18 pm

That's a fan-made wiki. I fail to see any point. Especially since I could change those descriptions myself.
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SwampRabbit wrote:So basically, your idea is that no town should ever be able to confirm themselves as town.

No offense but that is the dumbest idea I think I have heard.

Spoiler: Help support my Investigator Results List Overhaul and Town of Salem 1.5 suggestions!
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ElderSivart wrote:I'm confused as to why BMG made a UI for Pirate and not Hypnotist.

Sarah Thorpe wrote:Role Ideas is great for masochists.
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Re: Town of Salem 1.5

Postby Tigerleap » Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:45 pm

orangeandblack5 wrote:That's a fan-made wiki. I fail to see any point. Especially since I could change those descriptions myself.

*sigh*
I'm just going to ask you the obvious question once again...
What does Town Protective do? PROTECT! It's in the name... How do you fail to see this somehow? Town Protective PROTECTS people from dying. What happens if a Bodyguard protects someone? THEY DON'T DIE! What happens if a Doctor heals someone? THEY DON'T DIE! But what happens if a Lookout watches someone? They DO die if they are attacked regardless of whether a Lookout visits them or not. Do you someone NOT see that somehow? Like, ask anyone if Lookout should be Town Protective, and they will say no because it doesn't protect. If you do reply to this, once again disagreeing with me, I will simply not reply again, because no one in their right mind would agree that Lookout protects people from dying.

"Skill and luck are bound to intercept each other, and thus the two cannot coexist in harmony."

-Tigerleap


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FAQ

Spoiler: FAQ:
Why am I called Tigerleap? - It's my Warrior Cat name!
What is my favorite role? - The Lookout is the most fun role for me to play as.
What is my least favorite role? - The Pirate; it's absolutely cancer and we must get rid of it.
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Re: Town of Salem 1.5

Postby orangeandblack5 » Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:54 pm

Are you asking a question or trying to start an argument? :roll:
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SwampRabbit wrote:So basically, your idea is that no town should ever be able to confirm themselves as town.

No offense but that is the dumbest idea I think I have heard.

Spoiler: Help support my Investigator Results List Overhaul and Town of Salem 1.5 suggestions!
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ElderSivart wrote:I'm confused as to why BMG made a UI for Pirate and not Hypnotist.

Sarah Thorpe wrote:Role Ideas is great for masochists.
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Lookout Town Protective

Postby Tigerleap » Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:07 pm

According to orangeandblack5's 1.5 suggestions, Lookout's alignment should be Town Protective. Should it?

"Skill and luck are bound to intercept each other, and thus the two cannot coexist in harmony."

-Tigerleap


Image

FAQ

Spoiler: FAQ:
Why am I called Tigerleap? - It's my Warrior Cat name!
What is my favorite role? - The Lookout is the most fun role for me to play as.
What is my least favorite role? - The Pirate; it's absolutely cancer and we must get rid of it.
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Re: Lookout Town Protective

Postby RetralMega » Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:11 pm

No.
It doesn't save anyone therefore it can't be a Protective.
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Re: Lookout Town Protective

Postby Nellyfox » Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:12 pm

Noooooo.

Lookout would be a terrible Town Protective role. His giant 1.5 thread was created way before the devs announced all the stuff coming to the official 1.5.0 patch, and I'm sure I can safely say not everything will be apart of that.

His thread was a big overhaul of the game, but check the dates of the threads.
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Re: Town of Salem 1.5

Postby Tigerleap » Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:15 pm

orangeandblack5 wrote:Are you asking a question or trying to start an argument? :roll:

Just read this. http://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=45646
It has answers coming from other people proving you wrong, because apparently, no matter what I say, you will disagree with me. Read it.

"Skill and luck are bound to intercept each other, and thus the two cannot coexist in harmony."

-Tigerleap


Image

FAQ

Spoiler: FAQ:
Why am I called Tigerleap? - It's my Warrior Cat name!
What is my favorite role? - The Lookout is the most fun role for me to play as.
What is my least favorite role? - The Pirate; it's absolutely cancer and we must get rid of it.
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Re: Town of Salem 1.5

Postby orangeandblack5 » Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:21 pm

Oh wow

A thread with replies from two people that think you're confused about what's in the next update, both of whom have already given their thoughts in this thread (you know, the thread you're in right now, where you're supposed to talk about my suggestion instead of making an entirely seperate post to discuss a small part of my suggestion omnibus in an attempt to feed your ego).

I'm so impressed I think I just changed my mind :roll:
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SwampRabbit wrote:So basically, your idea is that no town should ever be able to confirm themselves as town.

No offense but that is the dumbest idea I think I have heard.

Spoiler: Help support my Investigator Results List Overhaul and Town of Salem 1.5 suggestions!
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ElderSivart wrote:I'm confused as to why BMG made a UI for Pirate and not Hypnotist.

Sarah Thorpe wrote:Role Ideas is great for masochists.
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Re: Lookout Town Protective

Postby orangeandblack5 » Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:23 pm

Just gonna ask for this to be merged with my thread.

Why make a separate thread to discuss my suggestion?

(@Nelly he knows it's a suggestion and not part of the actual update, he just really wants to be "proven right" on a nonissue)
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SwampRabbit wrote:So basically, your idea is that no town should ever be able to confirm themselves as town.

No offense but that is the dumbest idea I think I have heard.

Spoiler: Help support my Investigator Results List Overhaul and Town of Salem 1.5 suggestions!
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ElderSivart wrote:I'm confused as to why BMG made a UI for Pirate and not Hypnotist.

Sarah Thorpe wrote:Role Ideas is great for masochists.
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Re: Lookout Town Protective

Postby RetralMega » Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:24 pm

orangeandblack5 wrote:Just gonna ask for this to be merged with my thread.

Why make a separate thread to discuss my suggestion?

(@Nelly he knows it's a suggestion and not part of the actual update, he just really wants to be "proven right" on a nonissue)

... Your thread is called 'Town of Salem 1.5'. It could be easily misinterpreted by someone who doesn't frequent the forums or know who anyone is.
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Re: Lookout Town Protective

Postby orangeandblack5 » Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:25 pm

RetralMega wrote:
orangeandblack5 wrote:Just gonna ask for this to be merged with my thread.

Why make a separate thread to discuss my suggestion?

(@Nelly he knows it's a suggestion and not part of the actual update, he just really wants to be "proven right" on a nonissue)

... Your thread is called 'Town of Salem 1.5'. It could be easily misinterpreted by someone who doesn't frequent the forums or know who anyone is.

But that isn't what happened here. Read anything he's posted recently in my ToS 1.5 thread.

Plus he said "should" twice.
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SwampRabbit wrote:So basically, your idea is that no town should ever be able to confirm themselves as town.

No offense but that is the dumbest idea I think I have heard.

Spoiler: Help support my Investigator Results List Overhaul and Town of Salem 1.5 suggestions!
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ElderSivart wrote:I'm confused as to why BMG made a UI for Pirate and not Hypnotist.

Sarah Thorpe wrote:Role Ideas is great for masochists.
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Re: Town of Salem 1.5

Postby Tigerleap » Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:34 pm

orangeandblack5 wrote:Oh wow

A thread with replies from two people that think you're confused about what's in the next update, both of whom have already given their thoughts in this thread (you know, the thread you're in right now, where you're supposed to talk about my suggestion instead of making an entirely seperate post to discuss a small part of my suggestion omnibus in an attempt to feed your ego).

I'm so impressed I think I just changed my mind :roll:


I'm sorry, alright. I didn't mean to take this pointless argument so far. This wouldn't have been added into the game anyway, since this wasn't an official announcement thread, and was posted before the official preview. I just couldn't stand seeing something like that being added into the game. You're the one that's right here. I shouldn't have made a discussion page about this in a separate thread, either. I hope that after this we can all be cool. :D :D :D

"Skill and luck are bound to intercept each other, and thus the two cannot coexist in harmony."

-Tigerleap


Image

FAQ

Spoiler: FAQ:
Why am I called Tigerleap? - It's my Warrior Cat name!
What is my favorite role? - The Lookout is the most fun role for me to play as.
What is my least favorite role? - The Pirate; it's absolutely cancer and we must get rid of it.
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Re: Town of Salem 1.5

Postby orangeandblack5 » Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:42 pm

Yeah. You're allowed to think what I suggest is the stupidest thing you've ever heard, and you're allowed to tell me, but don't go trying to get other people to back you up when this has already been discussed in the past. :D

Plus, as I said, if another Town Protective role is added at any point I'm moving Lookout back. The problem is that right now Town Protective is too consistent, and this needs changing.
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SwampRabbit wrote:So basically, your idea is that no town should ever be able to confirm themselves as town.

No offense but that is the dumbest idea I think I have heard.

Spoiler: Help support my Investigator Results List Overhaul and Town of Salem 1.5 suggestions!
Image a a a a a
ElderSivart wrote:I'm confused as to why BMG made a UI for Pirate and not Hypnotist.

Sarah Thorpe wrote:Role Ideas is great for masochists.
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